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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Well, just about to get started on my 79 hatchback-long

Started by russosborne, June 23, 2010, 04:44:42 PM

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russosborne

Not much done today. Didn't really feel like doing anything at all.
Only went out to the garage at all because my wife was watching one of her shows and it was more annoying than usual.
Got the dash and engine compartment wiring harness's completely removed.
Also got the heater box out. I didn't realise that it came off with the 4 nuts from the engine side of the firewall. I figured it out after I took the front cover off of it and still couldn't find any mounting screws. At least I didn't break anything this time.

Was going to take the rear part of the harness out, but I guess I just was too tired and I forgot about it.

Been a long week, and it starts all over again tomorrow. I just can't wait. :-(  honestly, about the only thing keeping me sane right now is the Pinto. If I had said that even 5 years ago I would have said it was too late, you have already lost it. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I was googling last night, and found this site.
http://www.themustangshop.com/modswap.cfm
It is about doing a 4.6 swap into an early Mustang, but lots of useful info. They use a II front suspension, and even sell a Canton Racing front sump oil pan.
This is starting to look much more doable. :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Couple of notes to anyone thinking about taking the dash out. At least on a 79.
Mine had 5 bolts along the windshield, you either need a flex drive or remove the windshield.
Remember that there are vent controls on BOTH sides that need to come off first.
The steering column HAS to come out, or at least be dropped. There is a bolt in the center of the dash above the column that goes to a bracket, and that bolt has to come out.
Probably easier if you remove the heater control first.
Headlight switch and windshield wiper switch need to be removed, or at least remove the electrical connectors.

Most of this should be done before you take all the dash bolts off. I did it afterwards, with the dash hanging. Some of it may be easier to do that way, but if you want to make sure not to break anything I would disconnect it all first.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

and a few more.
The last one shows more rust. I sort of knew this was there, I could see it when I sat in the driver's seat. I was just hoping that it wasn't rust, but it is.
It is hard to see in this picture, and the other picture I took is worth. It is the lower corner on the driver's side. The metal is separated there like a piece of plywood that has gotten too wet.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

you asked for it, you got it. Well, no one asked, but here are some more pictures of the last two nights work.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

One engine down, one to go.
Put the Ranger 2.3 engine/trans on craig's list last night. A kid came and got it today. For his dad's Ranger that has well over 300K miles. I didn't think a Ranger could last that long here in the rust belt. I really hope it works out for him, seemed like a good kid. Kid being probably 20ish. God I am feeling really old. 51 in a few weeks.
Someone here said they probably want the Pinto one as a spare, so hopefully he will take it.

Nothing new on the Pinto today, took all my energy to get the Ranger engine loaded up. Maybe tonight. Way too muggy out there right now.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

the oil pan is going to be an issue. Might have to take a couple of them and make one. Will have to wait and see. Once I get the engine I am planning on just putting it in the engine compartment to see just what I will need to do.

The person giving me all this also found a spare set of frame mounts that he had taken off the k member that he is keeping, so he will be giving them to me. so if I can find a spot to put them on the Pinto I will be able to just use the Mustang mounts for the engine. Unlike the V8 mounts for the II/Pinto, these are all over the place. :-)

there is a post from 2005 or 2006 on here that has a link to a Mustang II that had the 32 valve 4.6 installed, and the car didn't look all hacked up, so I know it is possible. If this was an early Pinto, I don't know if I would even try, since putting a regular 5.0 in those isn't easy. I am imagining that putting the 4.6 in mine will be about the same difficulty as doing that. My goal is to not have it look like someone drunk with a torch did it. :-)

I actaully bought a 69 Fairlane with a 429(not the boss one) that did look like that once I got underneath it. I was stupid to buy it, but I had just gotten out of the Navy and really wanted a car and wasn't thinking. Didn't have it for very long.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

71pintoracer

Quote from: Bigtimmay on July 14, 2010, 04:42:25 PM
I havent seen a 4.6 in a pinto yet would be pretty cool been trying to talk my bro into puttin a LS1 or 4.6 into his AE86 corrolla.  If you do the 4.6 swap you should so go with the 6 speed trans talk about a fast pinto.
The 4.6 is really really wide, I see some potential issues there, then there is the rear sump oil pan....never seen a 4.6 w/ a front sump. But yea, that would be a sweet swap!
Saw a Mustang on tv that had a stock 32 valve Navigator engine swap, ran in the 10's.... :fastcar:
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

russosborne

Oh, while I am thinking about it. On this car there were 5 or 6 hex headed screws under the windshield holding the dash. And I think the only way to remove them without taking the windshield out would be to use a flex shaft on a socket. These were 1/4 inch heads also. I tried using a standard nut driver, and at least with my hands I was putting way too much pressure on the windshield. A socket with u-joints might work, but there really isn't much room for anything with the windshield in place.

And I ended up making the most progress with the windshield by using a one sided razor blade, having it between the sealant and the windshield, and pushing it along to cut. I used a screwdriver and a gasket scraper as pushing tools. But I also had removed a whole lot of the sealant around the windshield beforehand, so there wasn't as much for the razor blade to have to move through. And you need enough of a hole to get the razor blade started.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

How to get a little carried away.
go out to the garage wanting to do one little thing.
Not be able to do the one little thing. (quarter window philip screws on trim won't come off, going to have to grind the heads off).
Decide to work a little more on the windshield removal.
Taking windshield off, and not knowing where to put it.
Take dash bolts out. Some where something is holding the dash in, maybe a missed bolt. Need to go back and review some posts on that.

Did I mention somewhere back in time that I tend to be impatient?  :-) But at least I got something needed done. Need to get underneath and pull the gas tank and lines, but still not feeling up to that physically.

I really wasn't planning on taking the windshield all the way off, just wanted to get another side free. Oh, well.

Pictures later this weekend.

Oh, may not be getting engine stuff until the 31. I didn't know he still had to pull it all from the donor car, so I told him I could do it a week later if it was better for him. He is going to let me know.

Put the Ranger engine/trans on Akron Craig's List. For Free. Need all the good karma I can get. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Not yet, a week from this Saturday. But I would like to make room now. I don't have room for 2 engines, much less 3.
But I did confirm that the guy is serious. :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Bigtimmay

lol i just read you motor classified im guessing you got that 4.6 to your house?
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

russosborne

The one I may be getting is a 2V engine. Which is ok. Found lots of info on these things, going to take a while to digest. Probably shouldn't get too excited until the parts are in my garage.
Russ' Law-Every silver lining has a cloud.

But boy am I excited just thinking about it!

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, this one would be coming with the automatic from the car also.
Along with computers, complete wiring harness, fuel tank, dash, steering column, driveshaft, etc. No rear end, but I would like the 8 inch I already have anyway. I probably won't use all it is coming with, but it would be nice to have it all just in case.
Let's just say he is making an offer I can't refuse. If he wasn't drunk or something when he made it.

I did a search, and found a post and a few replies about this from about 4-5 years ago. There is a link to a Mustang II that has one in it and it looks killer. Although that one is a 32valve engine from a Cobra. The one I am maybe getting is from a 96 Mustang GT. So I don't know for sure any details on the engine, but Google here I come. :-)

Russ
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Bigtimmay

I havent seen a 4.6 in a pinto yet would be pretty cool been trying to talk my bro into puttin a LS1 or 4.6 into his AE86 corrolla.  If you do the 4.6 swap you should so go with the 6 speed trans talk about a fast pinto.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

russosborne

I just got an offer from someone on the vintage-mustang forum I am on.
It is so unbelieveable that I won't say what it is until I am sure about it. But let's just say it would be a major course correction on what I am doing with the Pinto. Something I really wanted to do but didn't have the money.

BTW, has anyone put a 4.6 from a 96 Mustang in one of these?   :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Quote from: popbumper on July 14, 2010, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: russosborne on July 14, 2010, 02:43:51 AM
Oh, wait. I did find more rust. Is there something special about the passenger side on these things, or am I just lucky?

Naw, Russ, you are not lucky. Think about the standard relationship of a car to the environment and you will understand why the passenger side rust is always worse. Given that a car travels with the drivers' side to the INSIDE of a roadway (at the crown), all the water/slush/salt/mud/puddles run to the right side of the car - the PASSENGER side - which is exposed to a far greater volume of nasty elements, therby developing rust both more quickly and in greater amounts.

Even my Texas car rust was worse on the passenger side.

Chris

That makes sense. Especially here in the midwest, lots of slush and snow on the sides of the roads. Heck, there is lots of it in the middle of the roads in Akron.
Thanks
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Quote from: phils toys on July 14, 2010, 12:01:33 PM
if i wern't so lazy i would have looked up the part #'s my self  and yes they are all the same do you need the compleet set or just peices?

phi
l

The only one I need is the upright one on the driver's side. I managed to get the others off ok. Been too long, forgot how to do it. Been saying that to myself a lot lately.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

Quote from: russosborne on July 14, 2010, 02:43:51 AM
Oh, wait. I did find more rust. Is there something special about the passenger side on these things, or am I just lucky?

Naw, Russ, you are not lucky. Think about the standard relationship of a car to the environment and you will understand why the passenger side rust is always worse. Given that a car travels with the drivers' side to the INSIDE of a roadway (at the crown), all the water/slush/salt/mud/puddles run to the right side of the car - the PASSENGER side - which is exposed to a far greater volume of nasty elements, therby developing rust both more quickly and in greater amounts.

Even my Texas car rust was worse on the passenger side.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

phils toys

if i wern't so lazy i would have looked up the part #'s my self  and yes they are all the same do you need the compleet set or just peices?

phi
l
Quote from: russosborne on July 14, 2010, 02:31:33 AM
Well, according to all who answered on the site they will work. So if you still want to I will take them, but I will pay you back someday.
Russ
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

russosborne

And now on to the good (HA!) stuff. Been a couple of days since I did anything, so I went out tonight to just clean out some stuff I had in the Pinto. Silly me.
Got 90% of the carpet out without removing the front seats. And guess what I found. 40cents. Bet you thought I was going to say more rust. Oh, wait. I did find more rust. Is there something special about the passenger side on these things, or am I just lucky? At least one more 3-4 inch diameter spot on the floor behind the passenger seat, not a hole yet, but I think I could push a finger through if I tried. And there is rust all along the rear part of the passenger side of the crossmember(?) that runs from side to side inside the car. The piece that the lower piece of the bottom rear seat bolts on to. Not sure how bad it is, need more light. And more courage. :-)

The driver's side still looks pretty good, although it does look like there is some rust around the drain plug behind the driver's seat. I have never yet seen one of those that isn't rusted. There is also a small spot in front of the seat. Again, I couldn't see how bad. Can't wait to see under the seats.

Will try to get some pictures later this week. Working extra at work, so I haven't really had the energy to do much when I get home.

Does anybody know the size of the nuts that hold the seats on? I really haven't had any luck yet. I think the ones on the passenger seat are rusted. But I can't get anything to fit.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, according to all who answered on the site they will work. So if you still want to I will take them, but I will pay you back someday.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

phils toys

Quote from: russosborne on July 11, 2010, 10:23:57 PM
Thanks. I don't know if those years would work. I'd rather wait on it for now until a) I know for sure, and b) I could afford to pay for it.
Russ
if it fits it is yours  all you have to do is show  up at the ohio meet
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

russosborne

Quote from: phils toys on July 10, 2010, 03:24:18 PM
:look:
umm  now you dont have to worry about storing the  glass
:surprised:
i have trim for a windsheild for a 78 and a 76 it it will help  but i think they are different  let me know and i can bring it to the ohio gathering
phil

Thanks. I don't know if those years would work. I'd rather wait on it for now until a) I know for sure, and b) I could afford to pay for it.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

at least for a while.  :evil:
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thought it might be that, but the passenger side is noticiably worse than the drivers side. And there is no crack on the drivers pillar.

Was working on the Blazer. Backflushing the radiator. had to let it run to get up to temp several times, since I flushed it several times. Lots and lots of rusty water. Finally got it clean, but the radiator probably needs boiled out.
Kept looking at the Pinto, and before I knew it there were no taillights, rear side markers, or hatch on it anymore.

Anyone know how to remove the vinyl piece that covers the gap at the rear bumper?I pulled it up, but couldn't see any attachment points. And how do you remove the quarter windows?

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

71pintoracer

The ripple you see on the a-pillar and the c-pillar is that way from the factory. That is where the roof is put on. If you look closely you will see the same thing on the other side.  :o
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

russosborne

I am wondering if this car was hit at some point. The picture of the crack in the passenger side windshield post along with the ripple that is on the passenger side rear quarter between the quarter window and the hatch really make me think it has.

The third pictue is of even more rust I just found. Again on the passenger side, this is behind the front seat. Getting scared about what I will find once I get the carpet up. Oh, well. It is still much better than my poor II was.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Took a bunch more. Then I started working on the windshield removal. I wish I could remember what weed eater string I had used when I took the 69 Mustang's windshield out, cause the stuff I have now bites.
Anyway, here are the pictures.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Quote from: dholvrsn on July 10, 2010, 12:33:04 PM
Have any trouble getting those Mustang Hurricane wheels on there without having them rub?
Well, I haven't driven it more than 10 feet with them on. But just from feeling around the tire I think at least with the tires currently on there will be a rubbing problem. But that is why I bought these. $40 for the set of 4.

There is room on the outside, so maybe a thin spacer would be all I need. I was planning on rolling the fender well lips anyway at some point before painting. I won't be worrying about that until I get the 8inch rear installed, which won't be for a long time most likely.

I haven't even tried putting them on the front, I am sure they would rub there.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.