Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Well, just about to get started on my 79 hatchback-long

Started by russosborne, June 23, 2010, 04:44:42 PM

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russosborne

Thanks, all.

Ended up buying a new idler pulley. Should have checked the old one out first, it isn't frozen. The new one isn't spinning either. Oh, well. At least I know I have a new one on and shouldn't have to worry about it for a while. Got to spend some more time on it tomorrow. Flush out the cooling system and put the battery on a charger. Either the alternator or the battery is going apparently. With my luck probably both.

Going to try and get some more Pinto pictures also. Problem is if I go into the garage I want to do some more taking apart.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Geez! :surprised:  Not quite sure what to say except to wish you and your wife a Happy Anniversary.  We have a CiCi's here and it's okay... the important thing is that you're celebrating... not WHERE you're doing it!

Your aches and pains are probably a result of all the extra work you've put into dismantling your Pinto this past week.  You're using muscles you haven't used in a while! 

Be thankful your wife wasn't hurt in the accident.  Celebrate that with an extra slice of that taco pizza! 

I know life is hard sometimes... we all have those times... but try to accentuate the positive!  Yes, you have to take that new serpentine belt off the Blazer again, but at least it didn't break!  Things could always be worse. 
And it's even okay to whine a little every once in a while! 

Enjoy your evening out and, again, Happy Anniversary!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

phils toys

 :look:
umm  now you dont have to worry about storing the  glass
:surprised:
i have trim for a windsheild for a 78 and a 76 it it will help  but i think they are different  let me know and i can bring it to the ohio gathering
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

dholvrsn

Have any trouble getting those Mustang Hurricane wheels on there without having them rub?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

russosborne

Forgot one other thing.
I have the Mustang II floors that I went to Altoona PA to buy in January, before I knew the II was beyond repair. Good news is that I can just cut a perfect patch piece out of the passenger side one and weld it in. Bad news is I had just tonight decided I was going to put them up for sale on Craig's list to get some cash. So much for getting any cash. The way my week is going they wouldn't have sold anyway.

I know I am whinning. I don't have the energy to do anything else right now. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

You know, some days/weeks it just doesn't pay to get out of bed. This has been one of those weeks.
Blazer serpentine belt breaks on me at work. I somehow kill a large amp at work that is used by production. Now all product that uses that amp is shut down until it gets fixed. As far as anyone can tell, it wasn't my fault, but I was the one using it when it died.
Been hurting in places I have never hurt before. Have no clue as to why.
Have wife go with me to work today, since I bought the new belt for the Blazer and it is still in the parking lot there. She takes the car and goes home. She gets rear ended on the way home. Didn't seem to damage the car, but she is stiff and sore all over, especially her back.
Got Blazer fixed. I thought. On the way home noticed that the temp gauge isn't moving. Don't know if it is the sending unit, or wiring, or ?
Then I start to hear a bad noise when I get off the freeway and in the neighborhood. Take a quick look at it when I get home, find out that the stationary idler pulley isn't spinning. Wonder if that is what caused the belt to go the other day. Worst of it is that I will have to take off the belt I just put on, and it took two of us to put it on at work. I don't have two of us here at home. Plus about $19 including tax for a new pulley. Going to try WD-40 first, see if I can get it loose. I doubt I can, but got to try first.

Ok on to the Pinto. Again, should have stayed out of the garage. Thought I might give removing the passenger seat a shot. Well, can't find the right deep socket to do it. And I found RUST on the passenger floor just before the toe kick panel starts. A nice hole about 3 inches in diameter. I pull up the carpet and didn't find any more in that area. Still have to get the seats out and the carpet pulled before I know if there is any more.
So I start feeling like really taking something apart. So I take the doors off. Nothing went wrong! I already knew that the doors have rust along the bottom. So I decide to take the windshield trim off. Bad mistake. Not only do I bend beyond repair one piece, I manage to pop a dollar coin size chunk of windshield off. It didn't crack, a layer came off. The way it sounded I thought the whole thing had shattered. It really popped.

No pictures yet. The way things have been going I am afraid to touch the camera. I'll try and get some later on today. If I decide it is safe to get out of bed. Although I don't have much choice. 5th anniversary today with current wife. We are going to Cici's for dinner. whoopee. Can only afford that this week since we got a coupon for 2 meals and 2 drinks for $9.99. Cici's is an all you can eat pizza place for those who don't know. Similar to Eatza (Eatsa?) Pizza out in Phoenix. Cici's has a taco pizza that tastes just like Jack in the Box tacos. Since there is no Jack in the Box anywhere near here that is the best we can do. Now if someone would do a pizza that tasted like a Whataburger double meat with cheese no pickles I would be in heaven. None of those around here either.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Double sigh. More rust. Still not too bad. But rust is rust.
Here is a picture of the newest find, and a couple of pictures of the rust from yesterday. Not sure how the last two pictures are, they were point and shoot. I didn't feel like climbing into the car, and it was too dark for the viewfinder on the camera to show anything. They are both of the driver's side area. I forgot about the passenger side, but it isn't anything like this.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I would like to remove the doors. I just don't have a place to put them right now. I have the interior panels I took off last night laying on the Pinto's roof.

I am not sure yet what color I will paint this. But I found some umolested original paint under the back seat last night, and it does look good.

Born in Mansfield, Ohio, got moved out to Phoenix, Az when I was 10. Moved back here in 2006. Wish I could go back to Phoenix, but wife loves it here and the job market for techs is as bad out there as it is here in Northern Ohio.

My wallet has been empty for quite a while. Wife still can't find a job. So it is going to stay empty for quite a while longer. :-(

You aren't related to the Yarman family by any chance?
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

Russ:

  I swear you are my long lost twin brother:

1) Your car color is the same as mine, though different year and model
2) You are 51, I am 50
3) We both have lower back problems - all I have to do is STAND for a while and it's bad news
4) Your project is suspiciously starting to look like mine
5) Your wallet is suspiciously starting to look like mine (empty)
6) We are both in electronics (you a technician, me an engineer)
7) We both have the "enjoy taking everything apart" disease
8) You enjoy the discovery of unsuspected, hidden rust as much as I do
9) You live in Ohio, I used to live in Ohio
10) We both have a mysterious "draw" to the Pinto - my first one was a '79 wagon, AH HA, yours is a '79 coupe, I see the connection now.

At this point, I REALLY strongly suggest you remove your doors. Why? You know you want to - let's do the same things. It's like a contest - it's fun.  :P

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

Sigh.
Decided it would be better to go out to the garage and piddle around instead of moping around the house.
So I start pulling out the interior panels in the back. I had the driver's side out just after I bought the car to replace the seat belt, so I knew what to do and needed something easy and not greasy.
So I get the driver's side out first. Notice something not so good. Rust on the inner wheel well along the floor where it steps up from the passenger area to the hatch area. Hoping it was just my eyes, I poke at it with the screwdriver in my hand. Sure enough, it goes right through.

Need to take pictures. It isn't that bad, maybe 4-6 inches long and a few inches high. The passenger side has some rust in that same area, but I didn't poke it, and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad. Just something I didn't want to see, especially tonight. This is the first rust I have found actually in the passenger compartment.

Ended up also taking the back seat out. Things look pretty solid there. the only part left to do is the piece of metal on the piano hinge that lays flat when the seat back is in the down position to cover the gap. Couple of small philips screws that I think I am going to have to grind the heads off. And I am not going to do that until the gas tank is off the car. :-)

After looking at the rear seat area, I am back to thinking that I am going to make one side of it behind that cross member (which I hadn't realised was there) that goes from door post to door post into the battery compartment. I will use a battery box, as well as basically building a box to hold the box. Just need to work on ventillation for it. Would like to use an Optima battery, but I still want the ventillation.
The other side I think will become the electrical room. Fuse box, starter solenoid, etc. It will be boxed in also. Might use that piece that is still there as the lid. It is already hinged at least. :-)

I may not be able to do a lot, but I am sure that doing that stuff is well within my abilities. I am going to be rewiring the car anyway, a mix of the Pinto harness, the Mustang II harness I have from the dearly departed car, and some homemade if needed. I am an electronic tech, playing with wiring stuff has always been fun for me. Only problem is that I tend to get everything nice and neat, and then decide to change something and have to undue it all. Going to really try to avoid that this time.

Russ

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, karma strikes today.
Moved my Blazer to a closer parking spot at lunch, and was sitting in it with the air on. Then the air shut off and then the battery light came on. Turns out the serpentine belt went. Had to have my wife come pick me up after work. Don't have any money to fix it til Friday since I spent that money on the engine and trans. Figures. so the Blazer has to sit in the parking lot where I work. 30 some odd miles away from home.

Was going to go out and play around a little with the Pinto tonight, but now I am just drained.

It's always something.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Oh, the black stuff on the driver's side is road tar. I went through some freshly applied tar quite a while ago. Figured might as well leave it on at the time. It will come off when I do the body work. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

hey, I just found out you have to type something in this box or else it gives you an error message.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

here are some pictures of the car other than the engine compartment.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

last one for now. pic of engine on hoist.
Ah, got it now. there is a button for additional attachments. I am not as dumb as I look. No one could be that dumb. :-)
bottom picture is of the lower radiator support. The buck tag is still there, need to look up the numbers on it.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

hmm, I thought I attached 3 total, all less than the max allowed. Maybe you can only do one at a time?
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

this is to see if I can get the pictures up here.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Engine is out!!
Special thanks to Fred Morgan for the advice about using a come along on the transmission. Worked great!

Now I have a mess to clean up. I made a strategic decision (otherwise known as impatience) and pulled it without sealing up the transmission. Oh well. Plus I have to figure out where to put this engine and trans. My garage is getting full very fast!

pictures to follow. I have some from bringing the new stuff home yesterday, and I am going out right now to take pictures. Didn't want to mess with it while actually removing the engine/trans.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

yup, 8 plug head. I think they got it working after a couple of years. It passed the emissions check here recently, so it should be ok. Going to be an interesting learning curve though. Never had a distributor-less engine before.

Got it out of the Blazer and into the garage in it's new home for the next who knows how many months. Felt bad for not doing anything on the Pinto, so I spent some more time on it getting stuff ready so I can pull the engine/trans. Got everything done now but 3 nuts/bolts. One side of the trans cross member is loose, but I don't want to take that bolt out yet. The other side is giving me problems. I might need to get under the car from the passenger side and hope that gives me a better angle. It is the passenger side that is the problem. Can't seem to get anything on the nut. Seems like something is in the way, but I couldn't tell what.
Lastly, the bottom nut on the exhaust manifold to the exhaust pipe. Again, can't get a wrench or a socket on it right. I might have to just cut the exhaust pipe. Between the grinder and the sawzall that would be the quickest/easiest way to go, but I don't want to have to cut the exhaust. It is still in very good condition, was replace about 3 years ago, and checking it out tonight it seems very solid still. But I am not going to spend 5 hours trying to get the nut off either.

Also still have the shifter linkage. Since this is an automatic, I just need to remove one cotter pin. Wanted to do it tonight, but I really couldn't see it well enough to do it.

So far no signs of rust underneath. Guess having a car that leaks oil has it's plus side. :-)
Unfortunately the same can't be said about the outer sheet metal. But I knew that was bad going in to this 2 years ago.


Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Bigtimmay

yes a 92 is a 8 plug head and i have a 90 ranger with 350+K miles on it and i never had to change anything but plugs and wires,oil,oil filter, and clutch 2 times, and fuel filter once at 229,000. It runs still but rings are shot.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Pinto5.0

Does that engine have the 8 plug head? I bought a Ranger new in '89 & that 8 plug engine was garbage. I had to file Lemon Law after having it at the dealer 11 times in 30K miles.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

russosborne

Well, just got home. Have a 1992 Ranger 2.3l engine and 5 speed trans in the back of my Blazer waiting for me to get them out. $180. The engine has all the accessories still on it. Trans has the shifter. The guy is going to give me the computer once he finds it and gets it off his truck. Very nice guy.

Bad news is I think I may have pulled a groin muscle while helping get the engine in the blazer. ouch. Got to get the stuff out of the blazer today. Can't close the back window with it in. Took 3 of us to get it in. Hope I can take it alone.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I had to force myself not to take the doors off. I only was able not to becuase I don't have room for them in the garage right now. Otherwise I would be down to a shell. I REALLY enjoy taking stuff apart. :-)

A lift would be nice. I sort of have access to one, but it is like 40 miles away, and the car couldn't be left on it. A guy I work with has one. Be useful for something like exhaust work.

I really really miss the rotissorie I had out in Phoenix. Just one of many car things I had to sell when we moved to Ohio 4 years ago. Can't afford anything like that now.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

pintogirl

Sounds like you got a lot accomplished!! It's amazing how that happens. Only going to do this, but then by the time your done you have a frame left over! LOL ;D

I hear you on the jackstands! We actually have a lift, and it is so much nicer to work on them in the air! I even cheated and waxed one of my Pinto's while it was on the lift! LOL Sure makes doing the bottom alot easier!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

russosborne

Oh my aching back.
Or as Dr. Smith used to say "The pain, the pain".

all I was going to do today was tighten up the bolts on the engine hoist I bought a month back. Well, I tightened them, then realised that the guy I bought it from didn't put the pieces in the right places. So 2 hours later it is all done properly and ready to use. Which is a good thing. I may be getting an engine and transmission today. I shouldn't be spending the money, but if it works out this is too good a deal to pass up.

Anyway, I get cleaned up from doing the hoist, and take a look at the Pinto before I come in the house. Bad move. I decided that since I had the floor jack out to help with the hoist redoing, I might as well jack the Pinto up and put it on stands so I can get under it tomorrow (Saturday, today now). I do the front, and decide I had better do the rear to give me enough room (I am not exactly skinny. 300 plus at the moment). Ok, get that done. So I figure I am done. Nope. Decided to take off the headlight trim, only a few screws. Well, that went quick, so I figure might as well take the headlights off. Again, went too easily. So why not take the plastic pieces behind the headlights off? Long story short, there is now nothing that screws or bolts on the front of the car as far as body stuff goes. Even took the bumper off at the frame. I was surprised how easily it all came off.

And the best news is that other than a couple of very small holes just forward of the door I can't find any real rust issues. Lots of surface rust, but no really bad areas. The area under the battery tray is shot, but that is because of the acid, not rust per se. Now, here is a bit of my usual luck. I have a radiator support with both aprons from a Mustang II I bought to put on the late lamented II I just scrapped. Everything is there and rust free. Except for the battery area. That has a piece of sheet metal riveted on. Figures.

I didn't get any pictures tonight. I didn't really think I would need the camera out there. But I will get some tomorrow.

I found out one good thing. It is much easier for me to work on this stuff with the car up on jack stands. Bending over tends to make my back really hurt, I have degenerative disk disease in my lower back. But i spent about 3 hours on the Pinto itself after the hoist was done, and I am not in that much pain. :-)
Relatively speaking that is. I am always in some pain.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Yeah. That II would have needed to be fully framed, and that was just more than I could do/afford/want. But it worked out, this way I can finally get the Pinto done after having it for 2 years.

I already have and am using the bags. One thing more I am doing is using 3X5 index cards and writing on them what the stuff goes to. Then putting them in the bag with the hardware. That way you don't have to worry about the marking coming off of the bag itself, which I have had happen before.

This is going to be a complete tear down, but not all at once most likely. Doing it or at least the plan is to do it in sections. Trying to keep it rollable for the most part, although I wouldn't mind having a body dolly to put it on so I could tear it all down and still have it mobile, but that costs money. But who knows what will happen. I am limited on storage space also, so that plays a big factor in how many pieces I can have off at once.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

78_starsky

hi,  If I may I can say watch out for that well I have it this far apart, then you keep going, takeing off this and then that. On our build we didn't really plan on going as far as we did in tearing it apart. originaly we were just going to paint it and redo the motor.  hmmm now thou, after we can see how she is going to look when it is finished I am glad that we have gone that extra mile and put in more than we planned. 

If I can say and stress this.... go buy 3 boxes of zip lock bags 1 large, 1 medium, 1 small. buy/get a black sharpie felt pen,  and EVERY TIME!!!!  you take bolts, screws or small pieces off, place them into a bag and WRITE down what/where you took them from. then take all the parts that were from that area and place them into a box along with the bag(s).   this has been a life saver for me/us in our project(s) especialy if a couple months pass between dissasembly and reassembly. 

Going back to your M11,  we are searching for one of those for 1 of our next builds,  we already have a 351Cleveland  for the power plant.  I was dang another mid 70's pony bites the dust.  :(   

cheers

russosborne

Thanks.
Yeah, some stuff may make the purists cry, but I do intend to make it into what I want.
well, sort of. Can't really turn it into a 69 Mustang or a 70 GTO. :-)
I really hope this doesn't turn into a 5 year project. I am almost 51 as it is. I want to get to drive it for quite a while before I drop dead. But I am not putting a deadline on it, at least not for now. Just really want to have fun working on it. When it stops being fun I will stop working on it for awhile. No pressure, other than what I put on myself.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

moneypit

WELL: I'M HERE TO TELL YOU IT'S A LONG ROAD. I'VE HAD THIS ONE FOR 5 YEARS AND STILL NOT DONE. BUT THERE IS HOPE. I'M ABOUT READY TO LAY DOWN THE PAINT AND MAKE IT AT LEAST MAKE IT ONE COLOR. THE ONLY ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU IS TAKE YOUR TIME, GO WITH YOUR GUT ON MODS AND KEEP AN OPEN MIND. IF IT LOOKS COOL (DO IT) IF IT MAKES YOUR THROTTLE OPEN THEN BY ALL MEANS, DO IT. I HAVE MADE SOME MAJOR CHANGES TO MINE AND AM VERY HAPPY. IT WILL BE A ONE OF A KIND. AND MOST OF ALL HAVE FUN WITH WHAT YOU DO AND TAKE LOTS OF PICS.

MONEY PIT

russosborne

I am too old and out of shape to like doing anything the hard way. :-)

I got quite a bit done today, had the day off from work. Got pictures, I just need to read how to get them on here. Going to be putting them on my cardomain site as well.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.