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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Well, just about to get started on my 79 hatchback-long

Started by russosborne, June 23, 2010, 04:44:42 PM

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russosborne

Maybe I should fit the 4.6 and trans first.
NAH, why do anything like that? :-)
I am like the cartoon character who is walking on air. As long as I don't know it is impossible I am going to do it. :-)
What's the worst that could happen? I waste my time and kill a Pinto. At least I won't be demo derbying it. And I am having fun(most of the time anyway). And I want to be different than everybody else.
(although if I had been given a 302 I would have been just as happy with that!)
Russ
(yes, I have been reading other threads)
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

The crossmember thing is in this picture. It runs from roughly the door post to the trans tunnel, on both sides. I want to add to the top of it, and have one piece going from side to side.
I had wanted to run one under the car at that point instead, but decided that it would be easier to modify what is there. Plus I won't have to figure out a way for the driveshaft to go through.
I am going to be making a box essentially on both sides of the tunnel from that point back to where the floor goes up to the hatch floor. The passenger side part is where the battery is going to go, and the driver's side is where the electrical stuff will go, fuse box, etc. The top is going to be hinged. I think I am going to be using the back of the rear seat(the metal plate part). Who needs a back seat anyway? Besides, once the roll cage is in, there won't be room for one.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

essentially. I am not sure yet where I am going to have them end up in the back. I think I am going to just have them go straight back to the little crossmember thing where the lower rear seat goes, and then see about running something to the leaf spring mounts if needed. I am going to reinforce that crossmember as well. But for all I know that could be where the leaf spring mounts are. I honestly haven't looked that much yet. The II leaf springs actually mounted to a plate that bolted onto the floor, with the bolts coming from the interior side. Wish the Pinto had a similar setup. Would be a lot easier to do the subframes. I do have those plates from my II, but I really doubt if they would work, the floors are different at that point between the two cars.

I also am going to try to add braces for where the seat mounting bolts go. It may not be needed, but why not. I know it is pretty important on the fox body cars, and it can't hurt.

My right hand(mainly the thumb) is killing me. I used a pair of tin snips to cut the floor. Worked pretty good, but it takes a lot out of the hands. Not sure how I will do the rest when the time comes. Advantage of the tin snips is they don't make any noise, so I can use them late at night when I am usually out in the garage. But I am having a hard time just typing right now from the pain.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dave1987

extending the subframe to the front leaf mounts, or across to tie the two together for a more "uniframe" vehicle?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

russosborne

well, spent a little time out in the garage today.
Found something rather scary. Pictures attached.
This is the top of the subframe and floor support on the passenger side, from about the front of where the seat would be forward just about to the seam where the floor pan meets the firewall.
Now, you may be asking, just what was he doing cutting the floor there? I'll see if you can guess for a bit. The one picture should pretty much give it away.

Btw, to answer a question I had asked a while back, the subframe/floor support has an internal width of about 3 inches.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

not a problem for me. I don't own this thing. :-)
it's here for everybody.
Cars aren't the most important things in this world.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Wow... talk about hijacking a thread!  My apologies, Russ... didn't mean to do that!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dga57

My sister was born in 1960 and learned to walk with the assistance of leg braces by the time she was four.  Believe it or not, she managed to go to public schools.  A series of operations were done to fuse the bones in her feet together so that when she was fourteen years old, she was finally able to walk without the braces.  She worked as a computer operator for many years before her health declined to a point where she was no longer able to do so.  She retired on disability in 2006.  She is still able to take a few steps with a walker, but is more or less confined to a wheelchair nowdays.   Considering how little was known about Spina Bifida fifty years ago, it is a miracle she survived, let alone growing into a productive adult.  My very best to you and your family... especially to your daughter.  How old is she?

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

bolubeyi

Quote from: dga57 on August 01, 2010, 01:04:22 PM
Well, I can understand the guilt feelings... and they are probably justified to a point, but it's not easy dealing with a special needs person.  I've had about fifty years experience with that.  My sister was born with Spina Bifida when I was three years old.  Her needs are many and varied, and raising her was a family effort.  She turned 50 this June and as she ages, her needs have become even more demanding.  This has proven out to be good training for what was to come later.  Sixteen years into my current marriage, my 46 year old wife suffered a major stroke.  Being in the pons area of her brain, it has affected her vision, memory, balance, and speech.  This was a seemingly healthy, active woman who was a nurse by profession.  She can no longer walk unassisted, obviously can't drive or work, and she needs assistance with pretty much every aspect of day-to-day life.  Even with a lifetime of care-giving experience behind me, it sometimes threatens to overwhelm.  Believe me, I know where you're coming from.  If you could no longer meet Paula's needs, returning her to her parents was probably the kindest thing you could do. 
Keep plugging away at that Pinto... I'm still betting you'll have success in the end!

Dwayne :smile:
I also have a daughter of spina bifida.  able to walk .  We live turkey .
web pages: http://www.spinabifidaturkey.com/smf/index.php

russosborne

You know, I used to enjoy math. Now it makes my head hurt.
Thanks!
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

1 mm = .03937"

9/32 = .28125

.28125/.03937 = 7.14 mm, so a 7mm socket would be closest (might fit).

Chris

Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

well, that is what I had thought. 9/32nds works. If it is metric I don't have that size either. 1/4 is too small, 5/16 is too big.
Not sure what 9/32nds is in metric land.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Bigtimmay

9/32 socket to take apart a 96 dash? if its a 96 everything on it should require metric sockets?  Or did ford do sumthing crazy again?

1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

russosborne

be careful, you may end up with a whole car.
seriously, things aren't quite that bad. yet. 
be glad when this friday gets here. payday. I can then afford to get a new 9/32 socket so I can get the 96 dash apart. I really need to get something done as far as going back together. Might work on the tail lights some more. Need to buy more cutting discs for the grinder.
Then I need to get the rear axle off the car. Been delaying that thinking I may need to roll the car around, but I will just worry about that if it happens. Actaully, I think it is more of a psychological thing. Once there are no wheels, it isn't a car. Yeah, stupid, I know. But that is how my mind works (when it manages to ).

I also need to get the welder welding. Got the wiring diagrams yesterday from Lincoln, they have great customer service, even though I bought this used and it is almost 30 years old.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

phils toys

i have 2 or 3 i can practice with  but i put a cap on mine and i am very satisfied with it. but i will take all the parts you dont want or need.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

russosborne

Phil, I just saw the post on dash pad recovering, and realised that I didn't give you the dash pad. I know it is in the garage somewhere, will have to find it before you come to get the engine and stuff. It needs redone, but could be a good practice one for doing it yourself. ???
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, the weather isn't in the 100's. But the humidity sucks. I will be out there and hardly do anything and my shirt is soaked in sweat. I am probably a bit dehydrated, hardly drink any water, mostly diet soda or diet koolaid stuff. Maybe I should get some diet gatorade, except they don't have my flavor in that. Or at leaast I haven't seen it. Fruit Punch.

Phil, I am not going back. That stuff is yours. Don't try to give it back. :-) I am at the point of no return on this thing. 4.6L or bust!

Wish I could find my darn dvm. I can't troubleshoot the welder without it. I should take a picture of it. I cut off the Pinto muffler, and have it on the exhaust pipe of the welder. I need to go from about 1 inch to whatever the muffler is, maybe 2 inch. Maybe use a soup can as an adapter. :-)
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

As the old saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day!"  Clinical depression is difficult enough, but I'm sure it has been exacerbated by the recent loss of your beloved dog.  Until some of that passes and the meds start to kick in again, my suggestion would be to step back for a few days.  Sometimes we are too close to a problem to see the solution.  I'm sure there are lots of things you can still accomplish without funding.  Do those things first and dare to believe that the funds will become available someway, somehow when you reach the point where you can't  go forward without them.  Good luck, Russ... and whatever you do, don't give up.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

phils toys

come on  russ lets keep this going  i also understand the money situation i think most of us do  that is why you do what you can if toy need advice  we are here to help and you will still be doing it on your own  we would love to see the car at carlisle  but if it is not done  oh well  if you decide you go back to a 2.3  i still nave the peices and you can have them back.
just rember some  progress is a great thing  every little thing  gets you closer to the end result.
phil
it was great meeting you and look forward to seeing this project in person.
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

popbumper

Oh yeah....you ARE my twin.

Standing back and asking "what have i gotten into"?

Oh yeah. They come apart easily, not so much together the same. And they cost money.

Sorry to hear your troubles, I TOTALLY relate. Right now I am also in a "could care less" attitude, especially with the weather being 100+ degrees every day. Hopefully I'll get back in the swing myself once it cools down.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

well, still taking a break. maybe that has been a bad decision. I am having major "wow are you thinking" about this whole thing. Hey, wowisn't what I wrote. I wrote W. T. F. without the spaces or periods. Even the forum software doesn't like me.
I don't have money to do anything. $10 is a major expense. yes, I was given the 4.6 mod stuff, but it is still going to cost money to get everything done. I don't really feel like doing anything. A pinto is not "the car" to me, it is just the car I have available. Yet here I am in the middle of a project that many people are saying is impossible. I feel I will most likely prove them right. Should I put a 302 in this? It would be a lot easier. But then it would just be another Pinto with a v8. I want to be the leader once instead of a follower. Problem is I don't have the tools, money, or really the experience. And I really want to do this on my own. I don't mind helping other people on their cars, but I have found out that when it comes to my car I want to be the one doing all the work. I realised this many years ago after a friend was helping me sand the body on a GTO I had bought from him said "that is good enough" and I didn't think so. I didn't say anything, but it made me think.

Part of this recent being in the dumps has been the dog stuff. But part of it has just been from standing back, taking a deep breath, and realizing what I have started here.
I recently sold the 8 inch rear end I had bought when I first bought this car, because I had the 8 inch from the II, and it was a bolt in, no problem installation and I thought that would be the right way to go. Well, it was when I was going to just do a 2.3 engine again. But now that I need a 5 lug rear I am really regretting selling that one. Going to need the 5 lug to match the front. I will need real brakes on this car if I ever get it done, and the little 9 inch brakes just aren't going to cut it. And the II rear is difficult at best to find better brakes for, since ford in their wisdom made the II rears(and the Pinto ones, since they are the same) unique in the ford 8 inch world.

And no, I am not drunk. I wish. I haven't had any alcohol in over 20 years. I do have clinical depression, and right now the meds aren't doing their jobs. Obviously.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 11, 2010, 02:27:03 AM
well, I thought it might be "I didn't think you would REALLY do that" kind of thing. :-)

I may be taking a break from posting/working on the car for a bit. We just got home from unexpectedly having to put one of our dogs to sleep. I might want to go out and do lots to the car, or I may just want to sit and cry. Probably some of both.
Russ

So sorry to hear of your loss.  That's a decision that is never easy to make or to accept.  Please know you have my deepest sympathy and will be in my thoughts.

Dwayne
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

75bobcatv6

I'm sorry to hear that. We had the scare of that this last week with out cat Louis,(louie) i wish you the best, and you have my sympathies and condolences. not an easy thing to have to do.

russosborne

well, I thought it might be "I didn't think you would REALLY do that" kind of thing. :-)

I may be taking a break from posting/working on the car for a bit. We just got home from unexpectedly having to put one of our dogs to sleep. I might want to go out and do lots to the car, or I may just want to sit and cry. Probably some of both.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 10, 2010, 02:25:25 PM
No comments on the Mustang II tail light? Good/bad/horrible?
Russ

I already told you... I like them.  I find them rather intriguing for some reason, although I normally prefer maintaining a stock appearance! 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Bigtimmay

look fine too me im still trying to figure out if i wanna leave stock bobcat tails on mine or if i wanna do sumthing crazy like led strips.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

russosborne

No comments on the Mustang II tail light? Good/bad/horrible?
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Are the pictures this size ok?
I just noticed that I can about double them here. I have them set for another site that has a 50kb max.
My camera is set to 2Mb, so I have lots of room to play with.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, it is sort of working, I have "Brows" instead of "Browse", but there is enough to click on. :-)

The last picture shows where I cut part of the support. OOPS. Oh, well, that is what angle and a welder are for. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, this isn't finished, but it gives a good idea of what it will look like. Of course I got some areas cut too much, and others not quite enough, but not bad for eyeballing it.
I won't worry about getting it exactly into position until I am ready to do the real installation. Not sure yet about using the chrome trim that goes with these, if I do it would be more cutting most likely.
I forgot to take pictures of the inside of the trunk showing what all I cut out.
I am also going to have to trim the plastic housing that goes behind the lens, but no biggie. Or just make some rectangular boxes for the light bulbs. I will try trimming the II parts first. I think that will work fine.

Just realised I will have to come up with some sort of gasket between the lens and the body. Silicone might be the answer.

Shoot, I  can't attach any pictures right now. for some reason the page is missing the right hand part that has the "browse" button for attaching. ???

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.