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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Well, just about to get started on my 79 hatchback-long

Started by russosborne, June 23, 2010, 04:44:42 PM

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dga57

It's a safe bet that whatever they offer initially is NOT their final offer, but she really needs to consider compromising a bit too... especially if there's a wide gap between their offer and what she's hoping for!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I do too, that is what worries me. :-)
She has a figure in mind and won't go lower. I just tell her that they have a figure in mind and won't go higher, so be prepared to not settle.
Alternatively, her mom may let us have the closing cost money if nothing else works out. Wish I knew, it makes a big difference in what house we can afford, if any.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Three words of advice, Russ:  Negotiate.  Negotiate.  Negotiate!  A lump sum settlement MIGHT be a good thing, but don't let them low-ball her!  Best of luck!  I strongly believe that good things happen to good people!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, an update or something.
Nothing really new yet. Although Dwayne's miracle may be about to happen. My wife was injured years ago on the job out in Arizona. She has been going to an ankle specialist here in Akron the last couple of years (took a while to find one willing to deal with an out of state worker's comp claim). Anyhow, she is having more problems with her ankle. So out of the blue the company handling her claim asked her if she would be willing to accept a one time payout to end their responsiblility. She is waiting to hear what their initial offer is. She also wants to use some of that for the closing costs and moving expenses. If the payment is large enough I am ok with that, but if she does this then we would have to pay for any future doctor stuff dealing with her bad ankle, so I am a little leery. I also don't think they are going to offer her anything like she thinks they will. But who knows?

Haven't done anything with the Pinto yet. Been feeling like working on it some mentally, but haven't had the energy. Haven't gotten any more done to the welder either. I basically haven't done anything beyond go to work the last couple of weeks. No energy when I get home at night. But I am feeling a bit better about some of the stuff, including dealing with the 4.6L. I haven't gotten the computer from the guy who gave me the engine yet, he was supposed to send it, but hasn't. But I think I am going to use it, and just do whatever it takes to make it fit.
Hey, why not. I can't really screw the car up any more than it already is (as far as it ever going back to stock is concerned).

Phil, let me know when you want to come get the rest of the stuff. I still have to get it all together in one place, but any time you want to come is fine.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

I believe in miracles!  Hang in there!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Anybody want a real project? Only $4000.
That is how much(give or take a little) in cash I will have to come up with if we are going to be able to buy a house. With a VA loan, I have found out you can't roll any closing costs into the loan. $1000 would be barely doable. I have let my family know what the deal is, but not really expecting them to hand over any money like that.

There is a slight chance we would qualify for some assistance from the city of Youngstown, but A) we have to buy a house in the city and B) part of it is income based, and with it being just me and my wife, we always seem to make too much money for that stuff.

Oh, well. Still moving forward with the mortgage stuff for now, maybe a miracle will happen. I might not have to worry about moving the Pinto now, but I will be too depressed to even look at it. I have been fighting the urge to play my favorite video game(Final Fantasy III Nintendo, or VI when they released it on Playstation). That is my escape mechanism. I don't play it to win, I play more just to get lost in that world.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

phils toys

good luck with the house hunting i know it is not easy i have done it a couple time  but only bought once.and a few years later i have add my garage.maybe you can find one with out a garage and add it i got mine through  a place similar http://www.carports.com/ohio/index.html
they installed in about 4 hours and has been trouble free for at least 3 pa winters.mine is 20x20 and cost was around $4,000
phil
we need to get together so i can get the parts out of your way.
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

dga57

Well, at least there are houses available in that price range!  I don't know of anything in my area for that kind of price... or even close! :surprised:   Good luck house hunting!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I am hoping to be able to keep it, but who knows? Just found out today that we are going to be approved for $10K less than I had thought (if we ARE approved), which is about a third less. Makes a big difference in the choice of houses. A lot less of them have a 2 car garage and the other stuff we need at this price. Still some out there, so will have to see what happens. Going to go do some more scouting around this Saturday. Got several houses to check out(from the outside, since we aren't preapproved yet). Hoping the neighborhoods are safe.

If I do have to give up the Pinto, I will have to go back to some of my other hobbies. but none of them let me beat the !@#$ out of something. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Russ,
In a fundamental sense, I agree with your statement, "Her well being comes before any car."  Of course it does.  On the other hand, I know from experience that the role of caregiver can be a daunting one.  I know that from my handicapped sister and from my wife.  You had some of that with your ex-wife... you know what I'm talking about.  The Pinto (or any project which truly captures your interest, for that matter) can provide you a much needed outlet.  Keeping it, even if you have to slow the pace, will surely contribute to your emotional health and, in turn, to your wife's well-being as more and more of her care falls to you.  I don't get to play with any of my cars as much as I used to but when I do, it makes for one of the few times I can forget all the day-to-day stuff and concentrate on something fun.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks, Dwayne!
Yeah, these stairs are just taking their toll on us. I have seen a dramatic decrease in my wife's ability to even walk in the two years we have lived here. And it isn't helping me either.

My wife is pretty much insisting that I keep the Pinto because she says I am not a nice person if I don't have something to tinker with. We will have to see. Her well being comes before any car.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Sorry to hear about your housing dilemma - I understand where you're coming from.  Our house is a split foyer so going up and down the steps happens probably a dozen times a day.  That was fine up until my wife suffered a stroke 3 1/2 years ago.  We would be SO much better off in a single story house - our problem is that we own our home and the real estate market is in such turmoil these past couple of years, we're reluctant to even try to make a move.  We just keep waiting and hoping the economy will improve.  Good luck in your search for a new place to live and lets keep our fingers crossed that the Pinto can move along with you!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks!
That is my expected price range, and it is good to know that it is a decent area. We will have to road trip to check it out. Been to Youngstown a bit, and up to Warren once, but never there.

Course, this is a sign of my luck. The mortgage person sent the pre approval packet to me requesting the usual stuff, but it hasn't shown up. I think she is going to have to mail it again. :-(

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Pinto5.0

I've been here 44 years. It's pretty quiet & safe. I'd still walk the street at 2AM without a gun. Property tax is about 20% of what Youngstown wants & there are single floor homes in the mid 30's.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

russosborne

Is Girard a decent place to live? I know nothing about it.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Pinto5.0

Try looking in Girard where I live. Plenty of single floor homes cheap & taxes are low.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

russosborne

Well, here is an update, sort of.

We are trying real hard to move. We are currently renting a 2 story house, and my wife is having some physical issues(doctor is suggesting a wheelchair for most of the time) and this house isn't going to work. And I am seeing problems start from the stairs as well. Oh, renting another place isn't likely, we don't have the upfront money, and we have 3 largish dogs and a cat.

Going through the preapproval process to try to buy our own place. I am eligible for a VA loan, if I can qualify.

That leads to a couple of issues with the Pinto.
1) We may not be able to get a decent house in a decent neighborhood with a 2 car garage. Living here in Ohio where it snows, I have to have a garage to put our main car in. Shoveling snow off the car everyday before going to work just isn't in me. I honestly am in pretty bad shape physically.

2) If we do get a place with a 2 car garage, getting the Pinto there won't be easy. We are looking at moving about 50 miles away from where we currently live (Akron) to the Youngstown area. Why? Because it looks like that is about the only area that a decent house in a decent neighborhood is in our price range.

So where does that leave things? I am trying to get the energy to put as much of the Pinto back together as I can. Doors, fenders, seats, hatch, hood. Maybe even the steering column, so it will be steerable.
Once that is done, I will have to wait and see what is going to happen house wise. Basically will have 3 options. Keep the car and pay to have it towed(much money we don't have), Sell it(right, after I have started to modify it), or scrap it.

Not sure yet what will happen. Sigh. Looks like I may have killed another car.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Hang in there, Russ!  Brilliant ideas happen when you least expect them!!!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks, Phil, but I am commited, or is that commitable?
Went out tonight and did some more damage. The 96 dash is now not going to fit in a 96. :-) Thought I could cut it some and see what happens. Well, good idea but too much of a curve now at the windshield.
so I pulled one of the II dashes down. It might work. It might be a tad short from side to side, but not a lot. Basing that on the metal part that screws to the pad piece. This is the piece that goes along the windshield. The curve is right. Not sure about the whole dash though. I would have to remove the brackets along the doors that the Pinto dash supports bolt to just to see how good a fit it would be.

Still not sure what I am going to do. Maybe end up making a dash that would use the 96 Stang parts. I did a quick check, and the 96 instrument panel won't fit the II dash without major surgery, so that is out. Maybe just go with the II dash and add the 96 radio and cd player(seperate pieces).
Maybe just go on and do other stuff and come back to this later on, hoping I have a brilliant idea somewhere along the road.

Seriously thinking about seeing if I can turn the pan around on the 4.6 and just dropping the thing into the Pinto to see where I am with it. I had gone out tonight to do just that, but didn't have the energy to move the welder around and then deal with the car, especially since I noticed that I have not yet removed the exhaust pipe, which would really be in the way in the engine compartment. Plus if I left it in there, it would make some needed room in the garage right now.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

phils toys

your stock dash is safe in storage if you need t back  just say so. no problem giving it back or any other parts
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

dholvrsn

OTOH, maybe the 4.6 and related parts could be trading stock for something more doable.

The "barter economy" shouldn't be overlooked and it can sometimes even be fun.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on September 12, 2010, 03:35:36 AM
Well, so much for that idea.
The dash from the 96 Mustang won't work.  I am really feeling like scrapping the whole stupid thing right now.


Bummer :(

Maybe stepping back and working on the Blazer for a little while will help you renew your committment.  Hang in there - I just know you're going to make something out of that Pinto yet!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, so much for that idea.
The dash from the 96 Mustang won't work. It is too deep. It goes out(towards the rear from the windshield) to within about 6 inches or less from the front seat mounting bolts. There is no way I could even get into the car with it that far into the interior.
Thought about trying to cut it down to just use the very front of it, enough to mount the instrument panel and radio stuff, but then I wouldn't even have a defroster, not to mention a heater. And in Ohio that stuff is mandatory, at least for any car I own.

Not sure what I am going to do yet. I still have the Mustang II dashes, they are not as deep, but I haven't put one in the car to see how it would fit. But looking at them tonight didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

I had really wanted to use that dash. It had everything I needed, and it was already set up for the engine and computer. Maybe I shouldn't even try to use the 4.6L engine. I am really feeling like scrapping the whole stupid thing right now.

Story of my life. Even stuff given to me doesn't work out.

Not sure if I am even going to do anything more to it for a while. I really need to get my Blazer fixed up so I can drive it this winter. The way the streets don't get plowed around here makes 4wheel drive a necessity.


Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Phil, that guy did come and get the engine and trans. If you still want the other stuff let me know when a good time for you to come over is. I'll get the rear end off and get the rest of the parts gathered up.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: phils toys on September 02, 2010, 06:13:01 AM
my wife saya it just looks like clutter    oh well  most "GREAT"  artist are never really  appriciated  untill later.  let me know when  to come and get the  rest of the stuff. phil

I think there must be something wrong with your wife... it looks like art to me!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

phils toys

my wife saya it just looks like clutter    oh well  most "GREAT"  artist are never really  appriciated  untill later.  let me know when  to come and get the  rest of the stuff. phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

russosborne

Looks like you could almost drive with it. :-)
Need to get you the dashpad.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

phils toys

russ ,
here is what i have done with the parts  sofar
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

russosborne

Anybody want a slightly usedand abused 79 Pinto?
Just joking. I haven't had the energy to get out and do anything with it the past week. Spent some time working on the welder, so far it is going like the Pinto, that is coming apart instead of going together.
Three day weekend coming up, hoping to get a little bit done to it at least. Would like to at least get the passenger side subframe connector fitted. I should go get another matching 2x3 piece for the other side. Just have to see if I can afford to spend another $40 right now. Plus I need to spend a little bit on the welder for some switches and electrical outlets.

I have to spend about one day doing yard work. At least an afternoon, if I feel up to it I can work on the car in the evening. Supposed to cool off some this weekend, I really hope so.

Really wish someone would answer my ad about trading the II 8inch rear. I want to take the 6 inch off, but we may have to be moving soon, and I need to keep the Pinto rollable. If I had the 8 inch from a 65-70 Mustang then I could get it on. HINT HINT. :-) I could get a 9 inch cheap, if I wanted to deal with narrowing it. Lots of them on craigslist lately. But narrowing it would be way too much work and money for me.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 25, 2010, 11:20:30 PM
Maybe I should fit the 4.6 and trans first.
NAH, why do anything like that? :-)
I am like the cartoon character who is walking on air. As long as I don't know it is impossible I am going to do it. :-)
What's the worst that could happen? I waste my time and kill a Pinto. At least I won't be demo derbying it. And I am having fun(most of the time anyway). And I want to be different than everybody else.
(although if I had been given a 302 I would have been just as happy with that!)
Russ
(yes, I have been reading other threads)

Makes sense to me!  Go for it!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.