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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Any 5-speed alternatives to the T-5 conversion?

Started by Henrius, October 05, 2017, 10:55:14 AM

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LongTimeFordMan

My consideration is that my car is an unrestored Galpin  survivor numbers car and i dont want to modify or cut it up.. ive done some minor bolt on mods like pertronix and carburetors but nothing that cant be put back..

Im doing a rebuilt engine to 1971 compression specs to drive and keeping the factory engine for my grandkids if they want to put it back to completely stock..

I understand that there are stronger parts out there  but i just want to keep mine stock..

And I dont really beat on mine.. just want to find spares while they are still moderately available..

Theres a 72 wagon in the classifieds herethat is already converted with turbo coupe  engine, 5 speed and 8 inch already installed..
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

Hummm..., my 150K miles T-5 that came out of the Turbo Coupe still functions fine. And parts are available.  If you get the one with the bellcrank the Pinto clutch cable connects. A simple plate of steel with two holes gets it over the crossmember. The stock Auto rubber trans mount was a bolt on (assume the manual is too) and all the steel mount required was a bit of slotting. In my case I went from a C-4 Auto trans/6-3/4" rear to a T-5/8" rear and the driveshaft fit without alteration.


So, basically what I'm saying is why spend a lot of money rebuilding the lesser stock Pinto 4-speed with hard to find parts? While they aren't falling off trees the 2.3 version of the T-5 at a Pick Your Part 40% off sale is under $100 out the door. They are rated at 240 Ft. lb. and mine has held up to the 190 HP of my Turbo motor.  I can't account for every drive shaft fitment but with my C-4 to T-5 swap I could either spend $$$ to adapt the driveshaft to the length of the weak 6-3/4 rear, or spend roughly $75 (40% off price) for a much stronger 8" and use the unaltered driveshaft. It is a no brainer.


For those that say the 5th gear of a T-5 isn't practical for the 2.0 engine..., well, just don't use it. You are still getting a better (useful 4 gears) transmission that likely suffices without a rebuild. And if it does need one, the parts aren't hard to find.

Reeves1

QuoteThe racing transmissions sell for about $2000 for a basic unit up to about $6000 for a full on dog box which is supposed to be good for 300 hp.


https://lencoracing.com/ST1200-4-Speed


;D

LongTimeFordMan

I called Taylor Engineering here in dallas and they stock all the parts to rebuild a WoG 4 speed..

They specialize in racing gearboxes and have what they call a "Rocket" which is an upgraded 4 speed and a "Sierra" which is the mercur 5 speed..

The racing transmissions sell for about $2000 for a basic unit up to about $6000 for a full on dog box which is supposed to be good for 300 hp.

They will rebuild a 4 speed for about $500 and sell misc parts as well..

A.set of needle bearings for the countershaft is $55.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Srt


sounds good but try to find out what is included in what the vendor calls a "small parts kit"


you should definitely replace all the needle bearings that the counter shaft rolls on & definitely get the kit that includes new brass synchro rings








Quote from: LongTimeFordMan on December 24, 2018, 02:28:39 PM
I found a rebuild kit for the FoG 4 speed here.. what do you think

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/ford_fog_rwd.html
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

LongTimeFordMan

Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Srt

Quote from: LongTimeFordMan on December 22, 2018, 10:07:39 PM
Since many of you all have con erted to 5 speed.. do any of you sti have a decent factory 4 speed you coulde part with..  my 4 speed is beginning to whine a bit in 1st and 2nd and since I an redoing the 2.0 engine, I was thinking of getting a spare trans that I could rebuild to keep on hand..



front input shaft bearing and the countershaft needle bearings.  good luck.  easy to do but I don't think the parts are going to be easy to find.  especially the needle bearings.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

LongTimeFordMan

Since many of you all have con erted to 5 speed.. do any of you sti have a decent factory 4 speed you coulde part with..  my 4 speed is beginning to whine a bit in 1st and 2nd and since I an redoing the 2.0 engine, I was thinking of getting a spare trans that I could rebuild to keep on hand..
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

dga57

Quote from: Bret Culpepper on December 15, 2018, 02:05:53 AM
Thank'ee.
Everyone I know that has had one despises it, evidently due to known issues w/ it's design & powerband issues.


Well, not everyone.  I've had the 1.6L in a 1972, the 2.0L in another 1972, and two 1974's and a 1978 Mercury Zephyr all with the 2.3L and I prefer the 2.3L, hands down.  No contest so far as I'm concerned, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

65ShelbyClone

Ah, I see. The NA 2.3 was pretty wheezy and weighty, but never really had any major design flaws that I know of.  It was even used in industrial and marine applications, both of which will find a weak point if there is one to be found.

That said, the 2.0 EAO is easier to get NA power out of despite the bad intake ports and it's quite a bit lighter.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Bret Culpepper

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on May 10, 2018, 09:00:30 PM
The obvious option for North America is a T9 five-speed as it is heavily based on the Pinto's four-speed.

More importantly, what do you mean "crappy" 2.3?

Thank'ee.
Everyone I know that has had one despises it, evidently due to known issues w/ it's design & powerband issues.

LongTimeFordMan

You might check out these guys.. they do a lot of gearboxes race cars including the 2.0 sohc pintos.. pricy.. but they might be able to provide some interchaninfo.

They are helpful.. i got a roll pin for my gearbox there

http://www.taylor-race.com
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Bret Culpepper on May 09, 2018, 08:01:15 AM
Salutations y'all;

What is the collective point of view on a 5 speed trans for a 72 122c.i. engine?

I'm seeing a lot about the crappy 2.3, but not a lot on the 122c.i. Trans transplant.

Thank'ee & cheers

The obvious option for North America is a T9 five-speed as it is heavily based on the Pinto's four-speed.

More importantly, what do you mean "crappy" 2.3?
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

robertwwithee

Quote from: Bret Culpepper on May 09, 2018, 08:01:15 AM
Salutations y'all;

What is the collective point of view on a 5 speed trans for a 72 122c.i. engine?

I'm seeing a lot about the crappy 2.3, but not a lot on the 122c.i. Trans transplant.

Thank'ee & cheers
I like the 5 spd behind both of  my 2.0.  One has a T9 while other has T5.  Run factory 3.55 gears with 205 60 13 tire.  Fast and good gas mileage.  T5 shifts smoother

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


LongTimeFordMan

Not sure about 5 speed in 2.0 but I have a 4 speed in my car with 3.40rear end and 14" aftermarket rims and tires and it does everything i need it to.

It seems to have a wide ratio low gear so starts are good, 1st finishes at 25-30 mph, 2nd at 45-50.

When properly built or even stock the 122 has a long power curve so I like the rather long gears, i see a lot of newer cars wirh 6 speeds and they shift about 3-4 times before I am out of 2nd and each takes time and clutch wear.

Especially the new mustangs, they make a lot of noise and Sometimes they shift 1st to 2nd before they cross the intersection but i keep up with them in my lil 122.


I would spend the money beefing up your engine for more power and torque and save a lot of adapter headaches.

Maybe just invest in a better carburetor like the standard ford or motorcraft 2bbl instead of the webber and let 5he engine work for you.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Bret Culpepper

Salutations y'all;

What is the collective point of view on a 5 speed trans for a 72 122c.i. engine?

I'm seeing a lot about the crappy 2.3, but not a lot on the 122c.i. Trans transplant.

Thank'ee & cheers

hotrodln

Quote from: Wittsend on October 15, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
Most of the GM Camaro T-5's came with the standard GM trans to bellhousing bolt pattern. There was a point (late 80's/early 90's???) where they went to the Ford bolt pattern (likely a Chevy Guy day of mourning) but again you are dealing with the the input shaft length being different in addition to the points you made.  Also a lot of those GM T-5's aren't rated for a lot of torque. They never used them behind a 350, only 305's. They used the T-56 for the 350. At least the one thing some of the Camaro's had going for them (in a V-8 application) was the 2.95 first gear.  But frankly it seems to be a lot of mix/match to get ratios, input shafts, shift lever locations that each application needs.



I did this swap over the last year. I used the front half of the ford spec T-5 and the back half of a GM spec T5. i did put the shifter in the right place, but the speedo gear now reads off the BOTTOM of the output shaft ( not the top like it did on the ford) so it would have spun the speedo cable backwards- which means your old pinto speedo isn't going to work anymore- so i installed a Vehicle speed sensor instead. I will end up just using an electric speedo when I'm done with my project.   



dick1172762

The 1.6L engines worked much better in the English cars in the 60's and 70's due to less EPA bs I guess. Was used for a long time in the SCCA race cars. I had several friends who raced Pinto with a 1.6L due to the fact they fit in a lower class in road racing back then.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dga57

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 29, 2017, 12:11:43 PM
The 1.6L cars needed all the help they could get as they were VERY under powered. I drove one in the Dallas rush hour traffic on the LBJ free way one day and I though I'd die any minute. The traffic was going 70+ and the Pinto with the gas pedal on the floor would not go that fast. Got off as soon as I could. Not one of Fords good ideas.

The brown '72 sedan I owned from 2007 - 2013 had the 1.6L and it would cruise all day at 70 mph; it just took a while to reach that speed!  lol

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dick1172762

The 1.6L cars needed all the help they could get as they were VERY under powered. I drove one in the Dallas rush hour traffic on the LBJ free way one day and I though I'd die any minute. The traffic was going 70+ and the Pinto with the gas pedal on the floor would not go that fast. Got off as soon as I could. Not one of Fords good ideas.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Srt


Quote from: dick1172762 on October 18, 2017, 02:17:47 PM
   You would need a very strong 2.0 engine to pull overdrive with any rear end ratio ever put in a Pinto by the factory. 3:55 is the very lowest gear put into Pintos from the factory and was in station wagons. Most Pintos came with gears around 3:00 and an overdrive is the last thing you would be able to use. It would take about 175 hp to pull such a gear and we both know that hp with a 2.0 is ONLY in an all out race car. 140 hp with a 2.0 is reasonable but with a lot of work and $$$$.


3:55 was available as the standard rear ratio when I bought mine in 1971 with a 2.0
There was a 3:73 available but I believe it came only in the earlier cars with the 1.6
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Wittsend

Thank you for the picture. It seems a hard decision to find an acceptable cut-off point with the many intersecting lines/curves etc.. Perhaps I'll reconsider doing it in factory white like the rest of the car. So. Cal. has been hot and windy and epoxy priming outdoors needs to wait for just the right day. But after 10 years of "I'll get to it next year" I just decided that it IS going to happen... soon.


Update:  I had my nephew add a bit of roof color to what I thought was the best tie-in line and then change it to a flattened black. So, I thought I'd post it here in case you might have similar considerations.

LongTimeFordMan

The roof paint is actually Rustoleum rattlecan "hammered silver".

When the previous owner found it the luggage rack had been removed and some of the mounting points were rusted and he couldnt match the paint so he two toned it.

Heres a pic of the rear section
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

LTFM don't want to derail the topic, but I'm curious about your wagon's roof color. I can't tell if it is primer, or silver.  Also, what was the cut off point at the rear?  I'm in the process of prepping my wagon to epoxy prime as it has significant surface rust.  I actually like the two color look and am contemplating doing mine in a different color. I've seen a number of "cut off at the rear" points in my mind but seeing one in real life would be interesting.

dick1172762

Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

LongTimeFordMan

As for the 4 spd pinto trans..  I really like mine... with the stock engine it launches really well in 1st and if I shift out of 1st at about  4500 at about 25 mph  it drops into 2nd at about 2300 just at the bottom of the power curve with the cam advance.  2nd gear tops about 45 mph at 4000. 4th at 45 mph is about 1900.
so I usually just do 1st, 2nd, 4th around town and only use 3rd when i need power on the fwy or slow to 35.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

dick1172762

Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

Look at  http://www.hvidberg.com/capri.htm   and the capri club of Chicago and capri club of north America  On the capri club of Chicago look at the drive line tech tips for a how to do it on electronic ignition for a 2.0 and how to do a T5 swap on a 2.0.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

robertwwithee

Quote from: LongTimeFordMan on October 18, 2017, 03:20:36 PM
Actually i discovered the difference when I built my capri in 1980.. the shifter was a real piece of work..

I had a feeling that the flywheel was different as well..

I have a capri block that I am rebuilding... I assume that the blocks are the same and have rhe same bellhousing mounting holes, etc.
Sorry, the capri does have side loader. I was wrong.  Capri oil pan, dipstick, balancer (small cast unit), and front crankshaft housing different as well.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


dick1172762

Quote from: LongTimeFordMan on October 18, 2017, 03:01:45 PM
Pix of pinto rims
VERY NICE! I didn't mean that the wagons only came with a 3:55, just that was just an option and Ford did not make a lower gear. 4:11 and 4:30 gears were made by Zoom when the cars were new in the 70's. About every 5 years I'll see a set on e-bay for sale. Very rare parts. And yes the tranies are wide ratios with second gear having a different ratio in some of the tranies. Why? Who knows but they are much looked for by the dirt track people for mini stock. BTW the blocks are the same.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.