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oldskool787
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

72 pangra v8 swap questions

Started by Fehrion_sit, November 03, 2011, 10:03:41 PM

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Reeves1

QuoteI hope you an find a complete setup, makes it nice to get everything at once.

:D



built 302w & T-5 going to be pulled (replacing with a B2).
I have motor mounts (71-73) I'd toss in.
Shoot me a PM if interested. Price keeps dropping as Dec storms in on me !

RSM

Sorry Fehrion, I sold the pedal assembly about 3 months ago. An automatic is the way to go when your drag racing...keeps your times consistent. The problem with manual transmissions is that if you miss a gear or have a hard time shifting then your done. Also for street driving just stick in gear and go. Manual transmissions are kool to have and all and a T5 has a nice od 5th gear but I'm all about the 1/4 mile and car shows. I'll keep an eye out for a bell housing for ya...I hope you an find a complete setup, makes it nice to get everything at once.

Reeves1

Quote from: RSM on November 09, 2011, 10:19:55 PM
Push or pull means the way the clutch fork is actuated. A pull type uses a cable and the push type is pushed to engauge/disengauge the clutch. For the pull (cable) type the pivot ball (inside the bell)is on the passenger side and push type has the pivot ball on the drivers side of the bell. If your looking at a bell housing and it has no clutch fork in it...that is how you tell which one it is. I hope that wasn't confusing lol

Mine is cable & on the left.

Fehrion_sit

RSM, you went from manual to automatic, do you still have the clutch pedal assembly? i am going from auto the manual.

about the bellhousing, i should be looking for a t-5 with a cable operated clutch, hopefully i can buy it all as one, they should all bolt to the 289 because it is the same block as a 302.

correct?

RSM

I checked this bell housing...it's not a cable pull.

RSM

In order to use a push type clutch you would have to have either mechanical linkage or a hydraulic clutch setup...cable is the easiest since it's already setup. Even easier is an automatic  ;D

Fehrion_sit

well i just learned something new. im gonna go out on a limb and say a push is probably best for a pinto because it is the path of least resistance?


on a side note, attached is a picture of 1975 mustang II frame mounts i found on craigslist, any thoughts, i think those are what im looking for.

RSM

Push or pull means the way the clutch fork is actuated. A pull type uses a cable and the push type is pushed to engauge/disengauge the clutch. For the pull (cable) type the pivot ball (inside the bell)is on the passenger side and push type has the pivot ball on the drivers side of the bell. If your looking at a bell housing and it has no clutch fork in it...that is how you tell which one it is. I hope that wasn't confusing lol

Fehrion_sit

if parcel post is an option, im all for it!

what is a push or pull type? im assuming the way the clutch is engaged/disengaged?

RSM

I'll have to take a look at it...I'm not sure if it's a push or pull type bell....glad you said something.

Pinto5.0

Send it Parcel Post for 12 or 13 bucks. I bought an '89 Mustang T5 off Craigslist for $300 & it came with the pull type bell which is the correct one. I think up to '93 will work.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

RSM

If its something would actually use you can have it...didn't cost me anything and I'd just wind up selling it for scrap anyways.

Fehrion_sit

so what you have is a small block to t-5 bellhousing, could you get me the part # so i have a good idea of what to look for, id buy it but shipping from AZ would probably be out of this world.

RSM

I'm in Az. It's a small block bell so it will fit anything Windsor. I'll have to take a good look at it since I just pulled the tranny off and set it aside. I'll get a look at it and let you know.

Fehrion_sit

will it bolt up to my 289? ... hydro  clutch or cable,

we are running cable clutch.

how far away are you from PA?

RSM

Do you need a V8 T5 bell housing? I have one I don't need since I'm running an automatic. It came with a tranny I bought for my wifes Mustang we had several years ago.

Fehrion_sit

good good, than i think that is going to become the new plan, according to the web, c5ta-6394-a is a 351 bellhousing to a 4spd toploader (pinto trans will obviously not bolt up to that) and to my understanding neither will a t-5 ... in my opinion ... this is overly complicated haha ... suggestions? i got it all off craigslist, ill just turn around and sell it again.

i am still looking for the clutch pedal/brake pedal assembly. is it true i absolutely need a non power brakes assembly because the fulcrum is different? any thoughts? im really hoping i dont have to modify the headlight lever when i install the new pedals. 

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: Cookieboystoys on November 04, 2011, 02:44:30 PM
I have a call into the previous owner to see if they had to modify the firewall or tunnel for the t5.

in the case of my Pangra V8 setup with 302 and t5 - firewall and tunnel did not need to be modified. His words were.... slid right in
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: Fehrion_sit on November 04, 2011, 02:47:06 PM
thankyou cookieboy, another question, does the blower motor coil stick into the fire wall? on the left side, if you are facing the firewall, does that hit the head on the motor?

here is a picture of my motor/blower motor
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Fehrion_sit

thankyou cookieboy, another question, does the blower motor coil stick into the fire wall? on the left side, if you are facing the firewall, does that hit the head on the motor?

i can post a picture if needed

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: Fehrion_sit on November 04, 2011, 01:38:20 PM
he used a t-5 and had to do extensive work to the fire wall ... is there any way i can avoid that .... i kind of suspect thats the bellhousing i have x_x

the 302 and t5 in my pangra use a front mount engine plate vs. motor mounts in the standard location... I have a call into the previous owner to see if they had to modify the firewall or tunnel for the t5. I know he didn't build it, had professionals do the work, but he may know. I don't recall anything on the firewall looking out of place, never looked at the tunnel... waiting for a call back from him and will let you know...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Norman Bagi

send me an email and I will send you a bigger picture. Brian was right, you will need sub frame connectors and I can give you some feedback on how to work this street legal and driveable.  it is easy to make these tough to handle if you go too big.  Your set up should produce somewhere between 220-280 horsepowerd depending on how you build it. More if you put a supercharger, turbo or really port everything and go big with intake and exhaust.  Room wil be your enemy on that sida though. bosspinto@pintostampede.com

Norman Bagi

Here is a picture of my motor mounts.  They are MustangII.  I saw this car on craigslist, I was going to buy this with a freind and you snatched it up, nice purchase, good luck with the build and I hope to see this car at Carlisle or on a Stampede down the road.

Fehrion_sit

he used a t-5 and had to do extensive work to the fire wall ... is there any way i can avoid that .... i kind of suspect thats the bellhousing i have x_x

Cookieboystoys

I think you should take a look at this thread, it may help...

here ~>http://www.fordpinto.com/your-project/71-v8-swap-let-the-fun-begin!!/

one thing to keep in mind is that you have a 1972... the 71-73 have a smaller engine bay than the 74 and up Pintos so fitting the V8 in an early Pinto has special considerations . 71pintoracer's build may help you quite a bit and answer a few questions for you.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

fast64ranchero

By the looks of the mounts, someone has installed later (74 and up) 2.3 mounts, I'd suggest removing those mounts and installing Mustang II or making your own mount,
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

Fehrion_sit

im not expressing my question in the right way, the motor mounting system has two parts. an engine side, and the corresponding frame side, i do not understand how the frame side is made/modified/bought .... the stock pinto frame mounts are far to narrow to hold a v8...

Cookieboystoys

it's my understanding that if you do not want to twist the car with lots of HP... it's rear frame connectors you should be looking into... not motor mounts
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Fehrion_sit

im anticipating close to 300hp, that may be over estimating but id rather be safe than sorry

Cookieboystoys

so... are you thinking 200hp? more? I don't know enough about enging building and parts to know based on your description how much HP to expect out of that build.

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!