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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Baby (aka the copper queen)

Started by blupinto, November 28, 2008, 09:41:14 PM

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pintogirl

Chuck, just go here...   http://www.fordcarclubs.org/ and downdload the registratoin form and fill it out then send it in. It has to be by April 6th I believe!!!! So time is of the essence!!!

As far as a place to stay, I can't help you there. I was only able to get a room with one bed at the Knotts Hotel. That and I'm not sure how hubby would feel about sharing a room!! LOL  ;D  I think Fred is bringing a motorhome and has an extra bed???? Not sure on this, he will chime in I'm sure if he does!!!

Hope you can make it!! That would be awesome!!!!!!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

Fred Morgan

Chuck type in   fabulous fords forever.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

discolives78

Hey Fred...

Albuquerque to LA area I'd probably take 40 to 15 in Barstow. Straight shot at 65 took me about 9 hours I think. To go the I-10 route, I'd have to head south to Las Cruces (about 200 miles) then hook a right onto 10 and deal with the dreaded dust storms between Deming and Tuscon, I dealt with that a few years ago. The northern route has nicer scenery too! ;D

:fastcar:

Thanks for the encouragement ladies, how do I register? What fees are due and to whom? Anyone wanna shelter me and dog for a night? Quiet, respectful, Just Pinto, me and dog.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Fred Morgan

Chuck if you are going I can hook up with you on I-10.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

blupinto

Tell Hubby they must've given us two duplicate cards! lol.

On another note (I hijacked my own thread! lol) I cleaned the blue paint off your door trim and I'll be polishing it next. I'm getting a little excited about the 19th.
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Ok, I kinda got a chuckle out of this! Off topic for your thread Becky, but I had to share!! LOL

Hubby and I were talking about Knotts and he asked me what number you (Becky) had for the registration card? He then said that I had number 19!!! LOL He didn't realize that the number represents the "Class" not the reg. number!! LOL He thought you may have gotten number 18 or 20!! LOL   

I got a kick out of it!! LOL
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: discolives78 on March 28, 2009, 12:04:33 AM
I swear I'm going to jump in my car with dog & two changes of clothes and 'spange'  :coolrasta: my way to knotts!

Chuck :afro:

Yah Chuck!! Come on down or up, what ever the case may be!! LOL  I can bring your stuff to Knotts with me!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Well, come on then! The more the merrier! Come on down!
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

I swear I'm going to jump in my car with dog & two changes of clothes and 'spange'  :coolrasta: my way to knotts!

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

Ha! Mine's in the glove compartment! LOL! :lol: Mine came today too! WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on March 27, 2009, 10:44:52 PM
Gracias Chuck! Jerry next door explained "the birds and the bees" of wires and my "girls" need "boys" to mate with (my car the x-ratedmobile! lol. ) but now I'm at a crossroads...

        I prefer having a stock radio in the car but not necessarily an am. Now I also have a cheapy am/fm cassette radio I can install but it's not stock. But with this I can plug in my ipod and hear my beloved '70s tunes. Or maybe I can sweet talk someone into parting with their stock am/fm/cassette radio...


       I hadn't forgotten Green Machine. I just needed a couple names so I can get into your club! lol. Did you get your confirmation yet?   

Yep, got it today!!!! It is in the Pinto waiting for the 18th!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: discolives78 on March 27, 2009, 10:55:29 PM
Appointments for next week:
Monday: Pain Specialist
Tuesday am: Psychobabble (therapy?)
Tuesday pm: Hospital Case Manager
Thursday: Primary Care Practitioner (I remember when that was one word...started with 'd')
Friday am: Medication Management
Friday pm: Social Security case worker

Managing my health has become my full time job :-\

I'm going to use an 'aftermarket' cassette player in my car (yes, a cheepie). Did you know that at least until 79 you couldn't order a Pinto with a cassette? Your choices were am, am digital, am/fm, or am/8 track. My dad was in the Army, his friends would buy base model cars and add whatever options they wanted from the aftermarket. I didn't get my car new, but in 2003 it was still a base model, no radio. Every option you see (and some you don't) on my car is there because of me.  ::)

Chuck :afro:

Chuck, so are you saying that my 72 Pinto would be period correct if I had an AM with 8track in the bezel??? If that is the case, I may see if the radio hubby's boss has, works. That way I would just have the radio and the Booster in the car!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

discolives78

Appointments for next week:
Monday: Pain Specialist
Tuesday am: Psychobabble (therapy?)
Tuesday pm: Hospital Case Manager
Thursday: Primary Care Practitioner (I remember when that was one word...started with 'd')
Friday am: Medication Management
Friday pm: Social Security case worker

Managing my health has become my full time job :-\

I'm going to use an 'aftermarket' cassette player in my car (yes, a cheepie). Did you know that at least until 79 you couldn't order a Pinto with a cassette? Your choices were am, am digital, am/fm, or am/8 track. My dad was in the Army, his friends would buy base model cars and add whatever options they wanted from the aftermarket. I didn't get my car new, but in 2003 it was still a base model, no radio. Every option you see (and some you don't) on my car is there because of me.  ::)

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

Gracias Chuck! Jerry next door explained "the birds and the bees" of wires and my "girls" need "boys" to mate with (my car the x-ratedmobile! lol. ) but now I'm at a crossroads...

        I prefer having a stock radio in the car but not necessarily an am. Now I also have a cheapy am/fm cassette radio I can install but it's not stock. But with this I can plug in my ipod and hear my beloved '70s tunes. Or maybe I can sweet talk someone into parting with their stock am/fm/cassette radio...


       I hadn't forgotten Green Machine. I just needed a couple names so I can get into your club! lol. Did you get your confirmation yet?   
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Ok, Becky, here's the skinny on your wires hangin' out (or in) there. The black plug with two wires goes to the dash speaker. The two 'pairs' of wires with the male (you know what that means, right?) :edit-hard to tell boys from girls in that pic. The exposed-terminals go to speakers somewhere else in the car (past, present or future ???) The two red wires are probably both live. One, like I said, with the key on (one on right) and the other with the key off. Newer digital stereos need constant power for the memory. The other wire shuts the radio off when you shut the car off. Hope that helps!!! If you can handle a wire terminals and a cutter/crimper, you should be on the road to music.

My car's name is Buttercup, it came with the car.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on March 27, 2009, 05:56:07 PM
Well, the Baby needs a real name like many of the steeds that are featured here in these, er, tomes. There are two names I have in mind. Wildfire for the fire in her coat- er, paint, and inspired by a great little song I grew up with. Phoenix because while she didn't necessarily rise from the ashes she did survive an under-the-hood fire and she runs a lot better than she did when she arrived. Also, when our beloved Pintos were merely lights in a designer's eyes wasn't that Project Phoenix? I might've misremembered that story. But if it's true then the name also harks back to Pinto beginnings. Or how about Phoenix Wildfire? Why should Kim (Pintogirl) and Tiffany (SageSunrise) have all the fun with their twice-named cars (Brown Ghost and Martha Splatterhead)? lol.  P.S I wish I had their imaginations!


Don't forget the "Green Machine"!!!! LOL


I kinda liked the Copper Queen myself!!! Then again, I do like Wildfire too!! I also love the song too!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Well, the Baby needs a real name like many of the steeds that are featured here in these, er, tomes. There are two names I have in mind. Wildfire for the fire in her coat- er, paint, and inspired by a great little song I grew up with. Phoenix because while she didn't necessarily rise from the ashes she did survive an under-the-hood fire and she runs a lot better than she did when she arrived. Also, when our beloved Pintos were merely lights in a designer's eyes wasn't that Project Phoenix? I might've misremembered that story. But if it's true then the name also harks back to Pinto beginnings. Or how about Phoenix Wildfire? Why should Kim (Pintogirl) and Tiffany (SageSunrise) have all the fun with their twice-named cars (Brown Ghost and Martha Splatterhead)? lol.  P.S I wish I had their imaginations!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Yes it's true one and all,

Becky's back, let's have a ball...

Her 'tude is one without great folly,

Somewhere left of juiced, but always jolly!

She's in the zone, for all to see..

Crazy for her horse , Oh don't you agree?

She'll find a way when she gets grim...

The I.V. is always shared with Kim!

  :tgif: (Thank God I'm Foolish)

Pintosopher ( a new kind of Horses' A**)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

 :lol: A tisket a tasket,
       Becky's not a basket....CASE! lol.  :lol: :lol: :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Everybody now ..
Raise a Mug o' cheer, 'cause Becky's back in her groove, a tisket, a tasket..
She's happy now, and no blown gasket :drunk:

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

The good news is it appears I don't have a blown head gasket (whew!) and my neighbor mechanic Jerry listened to the burbling and observed the heating of the coolant and confirmed the new thermostat works. I replaced the two small hoses that attach to the choke so that's two less old hoses. Now she needs a long road test.  :D
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

I remember well the episode of Emergency Vets a few years ago where some psychopath was throwing dog food soaked in antifreeze over the fences of people who had dogs and what happens when a hapless animal ingests just a tiny amount of the stuff. I'm very careful! I figured that's why they (the heater hoses) were looped.

      Here's the radio. the red wire is a puzzle but it does connect to the fuse box at the top.
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Well, if your heater hoses aren't connected to the heater core and are looped to exclude the heater core, there's a good reason for it! Approach the heater core (under the dash) with extreme caution! If you connect the heater hoses back to the core, and there's a problem with the core (most likely a leak) you will end up with a passenger floor full of antifreeze.

Caution: Antifreeze is poisonous to animals and humans!!!

Make sure your timing is set correctly too, as an incorrect adjustment can lead to the car running hot.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

I only knew to keep the radiator cap off and run the car til the pressure builds up. That's what my Pinto book says and that's what the Stant thermostat packaging said. I did see air escaping from the top as I watched the radiator. It's pointless to run the heater, as the heater hoses aren't even connected to the heater core (another knot to unravel). I have much to do tomorrow.  :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Wow, you had your hands full, huh? I agree with Pintosopher about bleeding the air out of the block and running with the cap off for a bit to purge air. I tend to leave my aircleaner on and use it as a table when I'm doing stuff like that (just don't forget the stuff is there and close the hood, you'll end up with a dent facing up in your hood, I learned the hard way), and use a sharp gasket scraper or metal putty knife (you can sharpen them with a grinder or dremel) You can also get a magnetic tray from Sears (in the tool section) that you can put on any steel surface, and it will magnetically hold your small bolts and parts. Those are about $15-20 IIRC. I sent you a pm to see if I can help with the radio, that's one of my specialties (not the new high tech, the period correct stuff :-\)

You know, the cooling system on the Pinto is 'open' meaning there isn't a reservoir, there's a tube leading from the neck under the cap around the right side of the radiator, my car 'purges' from there once in a while when it's hot. Of course if you do have a cam/lifter/valve issue, this can also make the car run hot. :-\

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on March 26, 2009, 05:26:08 PM
??? Who ever said life, or changing a thermostat, was easy!?!  ??? In hindsight taking out the gas tank was WAAAAAAAY easier and WAAAAAAAY less frustrating than Project Thermostat. Getting the housing out was a piece of cake. Getting the thermostat itself out of the housing was obstacle #1. Getting the old gasket off the old housing was obstacle #2. Ah, here comes the fun parts- losing a bolt- then finding it on the underside of the harmonic balancer pulley (1 in 1 gazillion chances that the dumb thing would fall into that!) then after fishing that out the new thermostat fell from the housing and wedged itself between that same harmonic balancer pulley and the engine block (or whatever). It was like a Chinese puzzle. It went in... but it won't get out. Another 1 in 1 gazillion chance of it falling there of all places. After much cursing, scaring neighbors, threats of looming junkyard doom, etc. I was able to get the gasket, thermostat and housing plus bolts to FINALLY! cooperate. I took the radiator cap off and started the car and ran her til she pressurized and warmed up. After I shut her off I can still hear burbling in the radiator.  ??? I'm thinking this isn't good.  >:( My back hurts and I'm still steamed so I'll leave it til later.

I can't help you on this. I will ask hubby when he gets home, but I sure hope it is nothing to extreme!! I am guessing you don't have a temp gauge? Someone installed one on my Pinto and I was thinking of getting rid of the gauge's, but I am growing to like them!! Nice to be able to look over and see that your engine isn't getting too hot!!!!

Hope you figure things out!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: pintosopher on March 26, 2009, 11:55:46 AM
Becky ,
Probably another Pinto.

Pintosopher


Hmmm, Maybe, maybe not!!!  ;D :P ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on March 25, 2009, 11:05:15 PM
The other day after running around town in Baby I noticed after I parked her she made boiling-water noises in the radiator area. Today I bought a thermostat and gasket and will be installing them tomorrow. Meanwhile things are starting to come together for the Fab Fords thing. I wonder what Miss Pintogirl has up her sleeve... ;)


Braahhh hhhhaaaa hhaaaa haaaa *said in a evil fun way*  :evil: :laugh:   We'll find out soon!!!!  :P
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

Pintosopher

Becky,
When the Steam has cleared ;D I wish to ask if you know the protocol for "bleeding" the air out of the engine block? Let's assume the best scenario and find out if there are Air pockets in the block passages that have be purged for the noises to stop.
First the heater has to be in the ON position to add any coolant when you replace the thermostat. Then you have to find the highest hose in the system and leave it open ( off the fitting) to allow the air to escape until coolant runs out that hose. Then you can re-attach the hose, and fill the system until full, then run the engine with the cap off and finish "burping" the remaining air out.
If this doesn't cure the "boiling sound" , it's time to take a more serious look at the pressure integrity of the whole system. Then you can really consider getting steamed .. :o

Hoping for the best for you..

Pintosopher

Pintosoper
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

 ??? Who ever said life, or changing a thermostat, was easy!?!  ??? In hindsight taking out the gas tank was WAAAAAAAY easier and WAAAAAAAY less frustrating than Project Thermostat. Getting the housing out was a piece of cake. Getting the thermostat itself out of the housing was obstacle #1. Getting the old gasket off the old housing was obstacle #2. Ah, here comes the fun parts- losing a bolt- then finding it on the underside of the harmonic balancer pulley (1 in 1 gazillion chances that the dumb thing would fall into that!) then after fishing that out the new thermostat fell from the housing and wedged itself between that same harmonic balancer pulley and the engine block (or whatever). It was like a Chinese puzzle. It went in... but it won't get out. Another 1 in 1 gazillion chance of it falling there of all places. After much cursing, scaring neighbors, threats of looming junkyard doom, etc. I was able to get the gasket, thermostat and housing plus bolts to FINALLY! cooperate. I took the radiator cap off and started the car and ran her til she pressurized and warmed up. After I shut her off I can still hear burbling in the radiator.  ??? I'm thinking this isn't good.  >:( My back hurts and I'm still steamed so I'll leave it til later.
One can never have too many Pintos!