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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Found some motivation (finally)

Started by discolives78, October 10, 2008, 09:15:30 PM

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discolives78

I forgot I had these. Pics of documents I scored on e-bay



The owners manual (very nice condition) and 1978 warranty tri-fold pamphlet



and the bag it came in



A dealer sales brochure, from canada, notice the wording under 1978 ford pinto is different from the american ones, don't believe me? theres another one on ebay that's different than mine


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

dave1987

If it all goes through, you had better be sure to let us all know so we can see a fellow PCCA member's car in theaters! ;)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

75bobcatv6

That is freaking Awesome i hope you get to do that man.

discolives78

So I got the pinion nut seal and the rear cover gasket replaced. Everything went ok. No leaks so far. Sorry no pics. I've been busy at work, just got done putting two 1979 Trans Ams back together for a movie. I'll bet alot of you don't know the film business is booming in New Mexico. When the guy came to get the second car, he asked about the Pinto, and offered to rent it for a film, so I exchanged info from him. I think it would be cool to have my car in a movie!


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

TIGGER

That looks much better than what you started out with.  Good Job!
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

dave1987

Awesome work on the dash! I sure wish I had a spare dash to try this on!

Let us know how it holds up to the weather changes and what not.

Keep up the great work!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

They dash looks fantastic, Chuck!  Keep up the good work.
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

popbumper

Beauty, Chuck. I am restoring these pads the "old, hard fashioned" way with foam, filler, and a lot of sanding (just like doing bodywork). I had a local upholstery shop recover my original pad, I brought it home, the vinyl lifted in 2 days. They tried to fix it and ruined it.

Great job for a first time attempt.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

The gauge lens are the original. looks good from here but there are a few scratches if you get close enough. Thanks for the compliments.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintogirl

That looks awesome!  I will send you my dashes, yes more then one, and let you practice some more!!!!  :D

I wanna know where you get the nice looking instrument panel? All 4 of mine have a smokey clear plastic. Yours looks brand new!!!

I will have to say though on the dash pad part of it. I will probably just buy the aftermarket cover. I am not one for alot of patients, and it looks like it took some to do that nice of a job!!!!

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

r4pinto

Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

discolives78

I just wanted to add that this is one of those things that's not as easy as it looks. I can't stress that enough!


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

discolives78

Some pics of the new dash pad taken today









Keep in mind this was my first attempt. hopefully I can get it a little tighter next time. Just need a little more practice. This actually took about 6 hours from start thru prep and then drying time and trimming.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

Congrats - VERY much looking forward to seeing the pictures. I may have some to send you to wrap  ;D

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

The dash is done. The batteries in the camera are dead, hopefully tomorrow or tuesday I'll post a pic (it's back in the car) Doing this project is like painting, prep is everything. First the dash pad was removed and the high spots and loose vinyl were ground off with a "nitty gritty" pad ( a plastic pad on the drill that looks like really coarse sandpaper). Then the rest of the vinyl was sanded with about 80 grit paper. I covered the dash with 1/4 inch high density foam, using upholstery adhesive shot from a spray gun. applied adhesive to both dash pad and foam. new foam extends from underside of bottom to top edge of the top, but not around the sides. the vinyl has to be stretched in places to avoid the need for seams and avoid wrinkles. The application of the vinyl started at the right edge of the gauge opening and some stretching was required to get the contour. then the passenger side, about the last 8 inches and around the corner were glued in place, much stretching and heat gun needed to wrap the vinyl around the edge. Driver side edge next, same process. Then the entire lower edge was glued and stretched to remove wrinkles. Finally the section between the gauges and the passenger side was glued and stretched into place. The adhesive needs about 10 minutes to tack up before fitting the vinyl. The vinyl was left about 6 inches longer than needed on all sides and trimmed after installation. It was so long in places that we used the factory bolts to hold the stretched vinyl in place while the adhesive set. After everything was glued down, I used a staple gun and 3/8 in staples to secure the new vinyl to the old pad.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Reed

Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Hey guys:

  As you know, Matt Gunter is driving to build the kickoff of the first Pinto Magazine in late Winter 2009. Having had some experience in dash cap restoration (and, in the middle of another right now), I am writing a lengthy article on dash cap restoration, including materials, photos, and procedure. This will be my first submission for the magazine, and I hope to do others. I hope this article is a good adjunct to what Chuck has to say about it.

Stay tuned!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Sounds good!   Please post lots of pics of your dash.   A write-up of how to recover a dash would be much appreciated!
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

dave1987

Sounds like you are on a good and steady road of the restoration of your Pony!

That is really cool that your boss wants to show you how to recover your dash, even better that he likes you! :D

I'll be checking up to see what documents you won off ebay. I know I have pretty much everything that came with mine, even the car's first third party battery replacement warranty from Sears!

Keep up the great work!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

r4pinto

That's great about your boss. Sounds like things are really going good at your job. Those seals are pretty easy to replace on the rear end. Been there, done that. Looking forward to the pics of the recovered dash.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

discolives78

My boss likes me. Yesterday he had me pull the dashpad out of my car so he can show me how to recover it! Look for pics in a couple days. I got my package from Rock Auto today, new pinion seal, rear cover seal and leaf spring bushings, and new spark plug wires, and I got my winnings from E-bay, a very good owners manual with other docs, including car and tire warranty booklets, I'll post pics of them soon. I'm going to have to live with the 6 3/4 rear for a while due to budget.

before, the old dash pad:



A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

dga57

Chuck,
Your car really is an inspiration.  It looks great!  Glad to hear you like the new job.  I'm sure there are lots of us here who could loan you seats to practice on once they let you at that sewing machine!  LOL.   Take care!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

Chuck,

first off good luck with your health & hope all turns out well for you. As for the car, great job with it. Your 78 is looking really good & makes me want to do some more work on my 77. Her condition is not nearly as good as yours is, but it's mine, none the less.

Looking forward to the next update & pics of yours.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

popbumper

Chuck:

  You are killing me - you have done more work on your car in the last few weeks than I have done since June!! Good grief, it warms my heart to see you take a break. Glad the new job is working out and that it seems promising. Have fun and keep us "slow guys" up to date on progress.

Chris

...who MUST MUST MUST get his brakes done and change the windshield gasket and repaint the dash while the windshield is out and pull the gask tank to fix the leaks and recarpet the floor and etc etc etc etc etc  :o
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

I haven't done anything to the car in a few days except add a quart of oil and put gas in it. It seems to be handling the 8 mile commute to the upholstery shop just fine.  I've been working every day so far this week. I like my new job, I stripped 3 living room chairs down to the frame and yesterday I started putting a 70 VW Squareback back together. I'm just getting the hang of things, so they put me on simple tasks, like re-installing seatbelts, sunvisors, door handles (stuff I already know how to do). Hopefully soon I'll get to play with the sewing machine!


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

I agree! You did a fantastic job on the covers.  When this little beastie is finished it will be that much more special to you because of the blood, sweat and tears that went into her to restore her your way. I miss the days where I could cruise to the junkyard (Ecology is the big one here in San Diego county, with three or four locations) to get stuff to improve my blue baby.  As for the Pinto script on the piece of wood, it is beautiful what you did with them. The red-white-blue in the P looked brand-new. The upholstery job is a great idea- especially since you're eager to do that. Things are looking up, it seems. Thumbs up to you!
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

I have my original battery tray from my car in my storage unit if you cannot clean yours up or find one in good shape in a yard. I am hoping to go back to JJ tomorrow to pull the one from the 77 Bobcat, since I start working grave yard tomorrow. PM me if you are interested!

I really wish I could do an 8" swap right now. I have a fellow Pinto member holding one for me, but he is in washington and I will have to wait until next spring to pick it up during a northwest meet that apintonut is organizing.

Your car is coming along great and it almost makes me jealous in great in shape yours is compared to mine. Maybe it is just me nit picking at my own Pinto's defects, but then again, I would notice them more since I drive it every day. :P

You have me modivated enough to pull my valve cover and belt covers off and repaint them! Thank you chuck. :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

discolives78

The career path was chosen based on interest! I like to look at upholstery, and sit on upholstery, and nice upholstery makes me smile! I have thought about persueing it for years, I happened to get a 'silver lining' in my dark cloud! I start tomorrow and I'm pretty excited! Once I learn a little bit, I want to redo my interior (including the headliner, it's starting to come apart) and help other guys and gals with their cars.

I've decided to swap in a 8" rear out of a 76 Pinto with a v-6 instead of fixing the leak on mine. I'm hopefully getting it from the u-pull next weekend. Here are some shots of the battery tray issue I need to address, the tray isn't rusted through (that I can see) but its pitted pretty bad, I'm gonna check out the ones in the yard while I'm getting the diff. I think I need to take the exhaust off to get the bolts out.





I lucked out and found one of these on my last trip to the boneyard



my old one is on the right, it has a crack in it next to the bolt hole on the inside.

found this under the carpet



and this on the radiator support



and while the carpet was out I installed the original shift boot



Hopefully this week I'll get pics up with the tire/wheel combinations I have in mind.

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

As always, nice work Chuck! Glad to see your motivation is paying off. Your floors were far better than mine, and that's a blessing in itself! Had I thought otherwise, I would have far rather owned a car that did not require as much work as mine does - it's definitely dragging me down, and actually motivates me less. With the money I have in it by now, I could have bought a nicer, road ready vehicle. Yours is a great example of a car you can enjoy and tinker with as you go!!

Regardless, you are doing some great work - and best wishes on your new career path. Hope it works out well for you!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

I got the piece of wood from home depot, it's unpainted base molding for the house, with two coats of polyurethane. The emblem is from my  75 Pinto, painted with testors model car paint. There was a matching strip of moulding between the heater control and the vent with a 'blue oval' emblem, that's also been removed. I have since removed that console and it was donated to Joe aka 'thewhitebeast' to make it easier for him to install a cd player, since I moved my radio to the stock hole. I used permatex grey to attach the wood to an extra console and the install kit was for a 87-93 Mustang.

Chuck

check out the console in joe's car
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,10734.0.html


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.