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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Popbumper's '76 wagon - update

Started by popbumper, August 16, 2008, 08:59:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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popbumper

Could not load any more pics, got an upload error message. Wrote the admin. More later!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Picture 7 shows the passenger side of the motor stripped of parts. More cleaning, more work.

Picture 8 shows the motor sans the bellhousing and tranny. Flywheel is smooth but a little rusty...

Picture 9 shows the tranny sitting aside. It had been quite liberally coated with undercoating, there is much detail attention neede as well as maintenance

Picture 10 shows a very oily, dirty bellhousing internal. Gotta wash and clean this.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Continuing on, with hands getting dirty and the feel of grease and oil beneath the fingernails....

Picture 4 shows a surprise! After remmoving the heat shields, voila! A cracked exhaust manifold! Texas heat you know...

Picture 5 shows the drivers side, now stripped of most parts, revealing a dirty block. Scrub, brush, lacquer, wire wheel....

Picture 6 shows the box of goodies I'll need to restore or replace after pulling the engine peripherals off...
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for February 21st, 2011

OK all, been quiet. Been a harsh winter for Texas. Until this past Saturday, literally had accomplished NOTHING for several months. My buddy Rob and I pulled into the garage this past Saturday and Sunday, and with 70+ degree temps, went hard at the car for two datys. Sore backs, sore knees, sore quads. It's tough getting old.

I promised myself to attack the car this Spring with a vengeance. I just gotta get it done - I have had it almost three years, and being deep in it, I need to go the other direction (putting it all together again). Having saved some green, decided to jump in head first. On the menu? Why, the MOTOR of course. Can't have a clean, restored engine compartment and put a filthy motor in it.

Now, just a note - this engine is original, one owner, 65k miles. Ran super great before being refurbed, I am not ggoing to rebuild at this time, but restore/refurb, to get a running vehicle. I have a second motor to toy with later. On to the show.....

Picture 1 shows a revisit of the dirty, dirty motor on a cherry picker, in the daylight, driver's side. Yecch.

Picture 2 shows the motor, passenger side, just as dirty.

Picture 3 shows the pile of parts (some from the motor) that will be picked up from sandblasting this week.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Pintopower

It is my '80 wagon that became my '80 CW.



I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

popbumper

Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78txpony

Chris - that picture is a lot better than the phone picture you had sent me.  Makes that paint look even better !
Great job - now I bet you want to do the whole car!!!
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

75bobcatv6


Pintopower

Ahhh... I know what a clean, freshly painted cowl feels like...


I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

popbumper

For those paying attention, you probably asked "hey, why is there no paint above the drip rail in the engine compartment"? Yeah, this bugged me too. OK, this past weekend I got brave - and it paid off. The three photos show the effort towards getting this area done - as well as the cowl - so that I could feel good about repopulating the engine compartment again, and not worrying about paint overspray.

Photo 4 - Yup, the cowl had planty of those nifty little dings in it. Using a catalyzed filler, I went after the little nnicks and filled/snaded all of them. The general cowl area got a good sanding of the existing paint with 220 grit paper, so that everything was smooth and uniform.

Photo 5 - Primer!! Since the car had its original paint, there was no need to get "fancy" with sealer primer or the like, so I literally spray bombed the cowl, blending it in with the area above the drip rail. After it dried, I knocked it all down with 400 grit paper.

Photo 6 - Voila!! Having purchased correct factory matched Delstar acrylic enamel, reducer, and hardener, I decided it was time to paint. Now folks, I have never painted a car before. I have restored a car and painted primer, I have used lots of spray cans, and I have painted small parts, but never body surface. The garage I keep the car in has a nice compressor, and I had some new basic siphon type paint guns, and decided it was time. I carefully prepared everything, mixed it all, covered the engine compartment, masked everything off, and went for it.

WOW, was I surprised at the BEAUTIFUL results. This is in no way a perfect paint job, and it has some dust in the surface, but I gotta tell you - I was amazed at how well the paint flowed out and laid down, and its S-H-I-N-Y! I checked it tonite - it's dry, and just amazing - like a bright shiny copper penny.

OK, yes, I WILL be painting my whole car. This is getting exciting.

Hope you enjoyed tonite's offerings, much more to come.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Two plus years, people, and still beating on this project. There have been ups. There have been downs. I have almost given up. But, I think I am finally starting to see some light at the end of this tunnel. PLease don't tell me it's an oncoming train...... :lol:

Summer was hot. The last real work before this Fall was in July. Fall came and my motivation was less than adequate. Now, I make a weekly habit of work again. As you can see in the last posts, my good bud Rob was kind enough to report recent activity on cleaning the motor. Well, I am starting to move ahead again, slowly....the good part is, now things are being ASSEMBLED instead of just taken apart.

This evening, I took a shot at painting my dashboard, which I had carefully sandblasted, primed and sanded. Ugh. What an awful night; the paint gun did not cooperate, so it's gonna have to be redone. HOWEVER, let's talk about some good stuff that happened recently.

Photo 1 - Let's catch everyone up to where we are at. This photi shows an angle shot of the front end, as it currently styands. All of the paint work is done in the engine compartment.

Photo 2 - Down on shot of the compartment. Yes, the brake lines are starting to return, as well as the proportioning valve. Note the new rack and pinion. This completes the front end mechanics - EVERYTHING is new and/or restored/repainted/replaced.

Photo 3 - Shot from radiator support - note the paint missing on the bottom of the support; gotta touch it up. Yup, I ran out this past Summer when I shot the whole compartment with spray cans of body color. Looking back, I wish I had done it differently, but it looks good for an engine compartment, and all the rust, grease, gunk, dirt, crap is gone.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

Although my 78's motor is still really clean from being boiled out when my dad and I rebuilt it, I REALLY want to pull my engine like this and paint it. Then my nit picking at detail will be somewhat satisfied!

Keep up the work, I'm rootin for ya! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78txpony

Chris has made a little progress since last update, reinstalling front brake lines, proportioning valve, and applying some undercoat to the trans tunnel and right inner fender side.
Over the past weekend I joined in the fun of engine prep.  He has decided to fix up the original 60 k mile 2.3. 
Accessory brackets were removed to be included in a box o' parts for bead blasting.  We took pictures as we went, so we dot an idea what when where and what bolt goes with what.  The timing belt cover, fuel lines, and crank pulley were pulled.  These will be cleaned up off site.
Quite a few mud-dauber nests were dislodged with a chisel and we used paint scrapers and screwdrivers to scrape off years of grunge.  I bet this engine was NEVER cleaned before! 
After the worst was done, we wrestled the cherry picker, still holding the motor, into the gravel drive.  This was a pathetic task – never before have I seen a pea-size pebble stop a moving 400lb vehicle dead in its tracks...
After getting it out there, we started the degrease process. 
Here is "El Grungo"...



3 cans of gunk later, and lots of scrubbing and water spraying we realized that the 76 blocks were painted blue.  My 78 one is black (an effort at cost reduction I assume...)  Also, I was impressed that this motor was pretty much all original, due to all of the motorcraft labels and part numbers.  Fuel pump, disty and cap, starter, and carb looked to have came with the engine.  (Of course my starter is original still and the fuel pump was recently replaced out of prevention.)
Here is the block after about 45 minutes of cleaning time:



Still lots of cleaning to be done, but the manifolds will be pulled so we can get around them.
We ran out of time and daylight (stupid time change), so we hauled the beast out of the mud pit we had created. 
Still lots to do! 
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

dga57

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2010, 09:09:27 PM
3) Dash - taking it to MAACO tomorrow to see what they will charge me to shoot it (I will supply paint, the dash has already been sandblasted and primed, I just don't have a good place to paint).


Unless you have first-hand knowledge of your local MAACO's work, you might want to shop it around to some other body shops as well.  Some MAACO shops are okay, but the majority of them leave a lot to be desired.  Wherever you take your dash, I hope they treat it with the same attention to detail that you've put into this restoration so far.  Good to know that you're still making progress!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

popbumper

Geeze, look at that. I have not posted on this project since July 14th. Man, that's just over three months.

Well, nobody has asked, "out of sight out of mind" I suppose, but I'm still working on my wagon. You know, the Summer was so d#$% hot, and then I was on medical leave from work, and too busy with other things - I guess I started to feel like Russ - overwhelmed (God bless you man, I feel your pain!!) and even considered dropping the project. I went back this weekend for the FIRST TIME in three months and got some little stuff done - you know, I'm in so far and the hard stuff is complete, now I just have to pace myself and keep going. Now that the weather is better, and I have saved some $$ to move the project, this is what I am working on:

1) Steering column - has been restored, repainted, looks great, all the colored parts are fresh, everything is super clean and looks new.

2) Heater box - fully restored, even figured out a way to re-create new "foam" on the dampers, it all looks great, and is ready to reinstall. I also bought all new seals, Dallas Mustang's kit for the 1969-1970 Mustang works alsmost perfectly.

3) Dash - taking it to MAACO tomorrow to see what they will charge me to shoot it (I will supply paint, the dash has already been sandblasted and primed, I just don't have a good place to paint).

With the engine compartment repainted and restored, I have to clean my harness(es), reinstall the brake lines (started), reinstall the motor mounts and brackets, the battery box, and other new accessories (voltage reg, coil, solenoid, etc). My goal this Fall is to get the engine compartment complete, get the dash back in (incl all components, fully restored), get the windshield back in, get the car off the ramps. Then I move onto the motor/tranny - and the rear end.

At any rate, I hope to have new pics up here within a week, showing more progress.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Hey Rob:

I live in the same heat you do, so I have been hiding in the cool as well. After letting the enamel dry several weeks, spent time last night compounding the engine compartment. It turned out pretty good - the compartment surfaces are now smooth and about as shiny as I can get them - not in any way "bright" but certainly decent for an engine compartment. Can't compain too much. Yes, there are some nice "factory style flaws" I added, a few minor sags, a drip or two, some blotching, some fisheyes, and some thin coats. I am a terrible self critic, expecting perfection was a bad thing to do. Of course, you'll never see the flaws when it's all back together.  :hypno:

Next? Steering column gets refurbed (under way) then reinstalled. Undercoat gets added to back of tranny tunnel. New passenger side brake line gets bent and installed. Brake setup (booster and cylinder) get reinstalled. Install new clutch cable, new hood cable. Install wiring harness and other peripheral goodies. Car comes off of ramps and rolls again.

After that, gotta get some parts sandblasted and repainted or powder coated, including hood latch bracket, motor mounts, drive shaft. Then on to the 8" rear end; dismantle, blast, powder coat, add 5 lug axles w/disc brakes, get new rear springs.

At that point, bottom of car is done. Then onto a new motor.

It pretty much never ends.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78txpony

So Chris, what's the status?  It's been a while since I talked with ya...
All painted now?  Doors overhauled?  Column done? 

:lol:

Quote from: russosborne on July 09, 2010, 02:12:37 AM
I haven't even felt like getting under just to take the seats out. It's been so hot and humid here even after midnight which is when I am usually out in the garage that the sweat is just poring off of me. You would think I would be losing some weight, but NOOOOOOOOOO. :-) I still prefer the dry heat of Phoenix to this humidity garbage.
I feel for ya.  Kinda sounds like you moved to Texas.
It's not quite he|| but I can see it from here....
http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/clubhouse/24350-summer-texas.html#post184817
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

russosborne

well, as soon as I think I know what to do with the windshield I will be taking it out and then starting on the dash. I just don't feel like doing anymore under the car stuff at the moment. At least not until I get "mini BP" cleaned up. I haven't even felt like getting under just to take the seats out. It's been so hot and humid here even after midnight which is when I am usually out in the garage that the sweat is just poring off of me. You would think I would be losing some weight, but NOOOOOOOOOO. :-) I still prefer the dry heat of Phoenix to this humidity garbage. Oh well. I was the one that wanted to move back here.

Finding out that the Ranger trans I have probably won't work in the Pinto the way I had hoped has put a bit of a damper on my enthusiasm. Trying just not to think about that at the moment, hoping that things will work out when I am ready to put a trans in.


Russ

These things sure come apart fast. Wish they went back together that way. :-)
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

PLease keep us all up to date on your progress, I am very curious to see your results. You are right, FREE is GOOD. I have myself a big 'ol piggybank at this point.....!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

Yeah. I am curious too. Supposedly the II column is a tad longer than the Pinto. I have the complete wiring harness from the II from headlights to tailights. Going to be redoing the wiring anyway, even if I don't change the dash. Moving some stuff around. Like the fusebox for one! Whoever designed some of this stuff was a sadist.
I may get it all in and decide it looks too screwed up. But it is something I am going to try. Won't cost anything but time since I have all the stuff from both cars. No dollars spent is a good thing right now. That's about all I can do at the moment, stuff that is free.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

Curious on how easily the MII steering column integrates to the Pinto. Same rag joint and knuckle setup? Same mounting under the dash? Same wiring connector and integration? Interesting.....

Also interested in the dash....the Pinto dash is not difficult to remove (probably 8 nuts and 8 screws) but curious how well the MII dash fits, especially over the pedal hangar assembly and such. Should be a cool conversion.

I like these projects in parallel, certainly we can learn from one another. Best wishes!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

Thanks for the tip on the POR-15. I was totally lost about which to use. Gloss Black it is!

Wish I could replace the steering rack, but it seems to work ok and money is too tight, so I will just clean and detail it. Off the car that is. :-)

The idea with the steering column is to replace it with one from a Mustang II. I am also putting (or trying to at least) the dash from the II into the Pinto. Better gauges and overall look. I can convert the II column into a tilt if it fits in the Pinto. But I will have to be careful taking the Pinto dash out in case my idea doesn't work out.

Would like to just completely strip the car right now, but I am trying to keep it on wheels for a while longer in case I need to move it around. Plus it still looks like a car with the wheels still on it. :-)

Might do the brake lines, although they are only a few years old. I HAVE to do the gas lines though. If I can do them ok I will try the brake lines. Got to get the tools to do that first though.

Also need to clean out the garage again. Too many pieces all over the place.

All comes down to money, or the lack of it. :-(


Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

Quote from: dave1987 on July 02, 2010, 12:52:01 AM
Holy cow Chris! You sure don't settle for HALF-ASSED! lol! I don't either, but that's really taking it to the extreme! In a good way of coarse!

Only my wife would accuse me of settling for HALF-ASSED, since I am doing what she calls a "frame off" restoration of a Pinto. Oh well, at least you guys appreciate it...... :lol:

Perfection IS the key!!!!!! Do it right the first time! Do it right or don't bother!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Quote from: russosborne on July 03, 2010, 03:38:28 AM
Chris,
Did you notice any fitment issues with the parts after all the layers of paint?
Does the POR-15 stay thicker than a normal coat of paint after it dries, or does it dry thin like normal paint?
I was wondering about this as I was tearing the Pinto apart tonight, some of the pieces don't seem to have enough clearance for any paint, much less several coats.
Thanks,
Russ

Russ:

  The trick with POR-15 is to use the GLOSS BLACK only - it is the BEST POR-15. I have used the grey, the chassis black, and the stuff that simulates metal, and NONE of them flow as well as the gloss black. Just be sure to coat it with the self-etching primer afterwards, because NOTHING will stick to it otherwise.

  No fitment issues yet though I have not really done alot of engine "repop" since the paint. I plan to compound the paint this weekend (it's had a few weeks to dry) and then start to put some things back.

  Looking at your pics it seems the right time to install a new rack and pinion - and restore your steering column - and replace your brake lines. Hey, why not?  ;D

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

LOL!!! Chips in the 1700 mile finish - I think you are my newest best friend. LOVE it....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Pinto5.0

Quote from: dave1987 on July 02, 2010, 10:06:19 PM
I wouldn't say it snowballs if you arn't careful, it snowballs if you start getting anal about it. lol

Did you notice the Stang I use for my avatar? That came about because of a few paint chips in the 1700 mile finish.  :o Anal is my middle name....... :lol:
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

russosborne

Chris,
Did you notice any fitment issues with the parts after all the layers of paint?
Does the POR-15 stay thicker than a normal coat of paint after it dries, or does it dry thin like normal paint?
I was wondering about this as I was tearing the Pinto apart tonight, some of the pieces don't seem to have enough clearance for any paint, much less several coats.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dave1987

I wouldn't say it snowballs if you arn't careful, it snowballs if you start getting anal about it. lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Pinto5.0

I used to pull engines out of cars just to clean & paint everything & make it look pretty. Its amazing how it snowballs if you arent careful.....
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

russosborne

yeah, I know going into this that once I start that I can't quit. Like you have found out, once you fix one thing, the thing next to it looks bad. Even though most people would never see it or know the difference I will.
I expect to have to replace all the mechanical stuff on mine going in. The only real unknown at this point is how much rust is on the bottom.

A trick to remove the glued in windshields for those who don't play guitar is to use weed eater string. Seriously. I did this on a 69 Mustang I used to own when I couldn't figure out how to remove it. Once a hole is made to feed it through it goes really well. And the string will not hurt your hands at all. Plus if you use a long piece, you can do just about the whole windshield from one side of the car. Just stand there and saw back and forth. Going to have to do this fairly soon with mine.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.