Mini Classifieds

Parting out 77 Bobcat Hatch
Date: 11/06/2017 04:16 pm
SOME PARTS FOR SALE
Date: 01/11/2017 10:45 am
1980 hood needed
Date: 04/23/2020 10:41 pm
Tire needed p185/80r13
Date: 12/31/2017 09:08 pm
Need lower control arms for 1973 pinto
Date: 02/27/2017 10:10 pm
Crankshaft Pulley
Date: 10/01/2018 05:00 pm
'79 Ford Pinto, Green,

Date: 10/29/2019 11:50 am
1970-1973 British 4 Speed Manual; Parts or Whole
Date: 03/17/2019 03:57 am
1978 bobcat 4speed shifter
Date: 11/02/2023 09:51 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 630
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 521
  • Total: 521
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Popbumper's '76 wagon - update

Started by popbumper, August 16, 2008, 08:59:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

popbumper

That's not your roof rack - that's the original - it's all bent up, you cannot see it!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

75bobcatv6

if you do rear disc go with the 95 gt mustang rearend. =) and im glad to see the roof rack is on the car now =)

popbumper

Well, shame on me, it's been a long time for an update. I have been busy with other things, the weather has been cold (for Texas), and I was laid off back on November 17th. This year? Find a new job and really get cracking on the Pinto.

OK - update (late) for December 30th. The weather was beautiful (low 70's), and with the help of a friend on the Maverick/Comet forum (local guy named Gene), I was able to tackle some more needed work on the wagon. Gene runs a welding business, and it was far easier to trailer the wagon and take it over to his place (it's about 4-5 miles away).

Once we got there, we literally pulled the car back on the trailer, let it overhang, and went to work on the gas tank. I had been wanting to remove it since there was obvious leaking - around the sending unit, or so I thought. Turns out that the tank had a number of pinholes (and one hole about 3/16" in diameter) that someone had previously patched with BONDO! We pulled the tank to also find a COLONY OF ANTS living in the space between the tank and the spare tire well - weird.

While I was under there, I figured why not pull the bumper off, because the bumper insert and related hardware are so rusty. Having done this, I took all the parts to have them sandblasted, including the filler tube, rear bumper shocks, gas tank straps, bumper insert, and license plate backer. These will all be cleaned then painted with POR-15 before reinstallation.

I have to repair the tank, line the interior (it was power washed at a car wash), and rebuild it with all new parts from SSCenterprises (vent valve, filler neck gasket, etc.). I also ordered a brand new sending unit (NOS- $75), because the one in my tank was shot.

I am happy to be making progress again. Next step? Getting the rear end pulled - and either restoring it, or possibly replacing it with a larger 8" unit that has disc brakes.

Thanks for looking!

Chris 
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Yes I do!! As soon as I get it, it's another short project I can get done quickly. I will definitely share pics. Thanks again!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

75bobcatv6

Remember chris you still have a roof rack to install =) and pics to get up so i can see

popbumper

Update for November 9th, 2008

We have had the NICEST Fall weather I have seen in 14 years of being in Texas, and I should have a LOT more done!! :embarrassed:

Well, needless to say, I have something to report...as of this afternoon I HAVE A WORKING BRAKE SYSTEM AGAIN!!! Man, oh man, I think I am a brake expert now, after three attempts at bleeding, three master cylinders (orig, 1 rebuilt, now a new), a different proportioning valve, all new rear hardware, all new rubber hoses, new rear cylinders, and a whole bunch of frustration, I pulled the wagon out of the garage onto the inclined drive and was able to stop again. I took my baby out in the street, up to the front of the house, turned around again, and parked her. It was SO GOOD to drive again!! :amazed:

That was the most frustrating thing I have ever been through!! Now, I can move forward (literally and figuratively) and get some more done. NEXT WEEK'S GOAL - attack the cowl hole before rainy season gets here.

Then - the gas tank gets pulled and the leak at the sending unit gets fixed.

Then - the windshield comes out and gets a new seal, while the dash gets repainted.

Then...stay tuned.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Yup, you have been a busy boy!! Wow, this morning I just found a source (80 miles away - no biggie) for parts '76 and '74 wagons. Looks like I will be taking a drive tomorrow afternoon. Boss is out of town, I am not very busy, and the thought of extra parts has me pretty excited.

Have fun!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

The deeper you dig in the car, the deeper you have to dig in your pocket! I spent all day at u-pull-it, got a bunch of parts (check my thread) and when I got home all I had a chance to do to my car was change the windshield washer bottle! Truck full of parts and ran out of time. :(  Tomorrow or Saturday or something is another day :)
At least when(ever) its done, you'll feel a sense of accomplishment.

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

Update for October 13, 2008

Today was the first day since I got the car that I literally spent the whole day working on it (our workplace had a Holiday). In fact, my old bones are so tired right now, I won't be up late tonite!!

Todays menu:

1) Finished both rear brakes. Thanks again, Fred, for the brake drum, it really helped.
2) Changed out both rear shocks
3) Replaced the aging rear brake hose and the axle vent tube. While I hate to put new parts on a rusty axle, these things need done.
4) Bled the rear brakes. No leaks, and I have recovered use of my parking brake.
5) Replaced the master cylinder. Now I gotta tell ya, this was a >pain<, not because of the difficulty, but because of it's tight location. I really had to dink around with stuff. And the push rod to the pedal? That was weird, never having done one before. The other master cylinder was SHOT, the brake fluid was full of rust and sediment, and just looked awful.

Now, being overly ambitious, I ventured farther to bleed my front brakes and change out the hoses. Wow, first time I took off my front tires....

Mechanically, >everything< is wasted. I'm not only talking brakes, I am talking grease fittings, rubber pieces, boots, etc. Good grief, I >absolutely< need a front end rebuild - and new rotors - and new calipers - and new hoses, etc..


It started getting dark, I needed to eat dinner. I had to give up, and STILL NO BRAKES!!! Boy, it's frustrating to work the whole day and not feel like you got anything accomplished. We had to let the car back out of the garage and let gravity (carefully) do its thing. She sits, as usual, with bricks behind the wheels on the sloped drive. This car is a friggin piece of work, I must be a glutton for punishment.

More later on this developing story.....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

my car has the original muffler, ford logo, made in canada and all, the whole exhaust system is original except for the catalytic converter, had it replaced 4 years ago because i thought it was plugged but turned out to be the carb, don't envy the dash issues, I had to replace the defrost ducts in mine because they were chewed through by mice. mine has no rust around the windshield or cowl ( God blessed the desert! )  I'm about 6'4" too, so the seats have to come out to get under the dash. of course my car doesnt have air conditioning, so its a bit less cluttered


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

Update for September 22nd

When last visited, I had just removed the windshield trim and discovered some uglies underneath - rusted trim clips, a few missing screw heads, and a corner clip that was unuseable.

"Oldandcrochety" was kind enough to send me some clips - these were not the same style, but nonetheless he was generous in doing so for free. The ACTUAL reproduction clips can be found at a place in Texas, called "Latemodelrestoration.com". If you search under 1976/Ford/Mustang/clip, they have these clips, new, for $3.95/pack of 13. Needless to say, I was thrilled to find these new!!

Then, lo and behold, another member stepped forward selling the corner clips - on the same day. Man, what luck. Bought them! The windshield clip issue is SOLVED, and everything in that area is going to be perfect.

In the meantime, I had been working on my dash cap, getting it ready for vinyl re-wrap. I am posting another thread about dash cap restoration.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Wow - that's very helpful and fast. Thanks so much.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

oldandcrotchety

  Clips left out on the mail truck about 1:30.

popbumper

Just sent you an email, thanks!

chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

oldandcrotchety


popbumper

Oldandcrochety:

  Thanks for the offer. I could probably use ten of them, but I don't know how many you have. Let me know what you can do, I greatly appreciate it.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

oldandcrotchety

  I have some that look like that, new left over from my old body shop days.  How many you need? 

popbumper

Update for September 16 2008

OK. The weather is finally cooperating, the temps are outstanding. I have been cleaning the garage in anticipation for moving it inside, so I can get some stuff taken apart, and it won't be unsightly in the driveway. Up for grabs - windshield removal, which began tonite by pulling the windshield trim.

After obtaining the >very handy< tool from Harbor Freight, it was "relatively" easy. The amount of crap under the trim was staggering, mostly dead organic junk. The findings?

1) About 1/3 of the trim clips were rusted enough to disintegrate
2) The 6 clips at the bottom? Only one screw was so rusted that I will need to work it out with something besides a screwdriver
3) The two corner clips? One was intact, the other was broken
4) The rubber windshield seal is intact, but pitifully dry and cracked

SO, given that.....

Can I get trim clips from any source? Anyone have NOS ones they will sell?[/i] I can derust some of the good ones I have, but there are not enough. Did Mustang or any other Ford use these (where repro parts might be available)?

Thanks as always. Windshield comes out next, then I can fix the cowl hole.
Then the dash gets pulled and repainted.

Chris



Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for August 28, 2008

No pics right now, well, yeah, I took them but I have to modify them on my other computer and send to this one and I am too lazy tonite.

Got to messing around with the rear brakes tonite, figured I'd take a look at what was going on. Here's what I discovered:

1) Passenger side rear brake - pulled the drum to find the parking brake adjuster and spring fall off onto the ground. Shoes and drum look fine, but I really need to change >everything<. Gonna order parts tomorrow.

2) Drivers side rear brake - everything looks fine, but again, I'm going to pull all of it.

3) This is INCREDIBLE - remember, we're talking Texas here - the car has the ORIGINAL exhaust sytem on it. How do I know? The stinkin' muffler has the FORD logo stamped on it, as well as the date of "5 76" (which is the build date according to my build sheet), and the words "Made in Canada". Good grief!! How many of you guys have an ORIGIAL 30+ year old muffler? Maybe I need to change the pipes and restore the muffler itself, wow!! :hypno:

4) Everything else on the rear end is original (meaning, ripe for restoration, all surface rust but nothing critical). Undercoating and a life in the South SAVED this car!

5) I >DO< have a gas tank leak around the sending unit. Some of it has run down on the surface of the tank and it is definitely gas - I smelled it.


Goal for this winter: Finish the interior. Pull the rear end, blast/clean/paint the springs, build new brake lines, restore the rear end in entirety, paint everything fresh black, install all new brakes, install new shocks, pull the drive shaft and clean it up, put in new U joints, etc.

I >love< this stuff, what a blast!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for August 21 2008

Preface - it's either hot or rainy in Texas. After 30+ days of 100+ degree temps, we had five days in a row of downpours and clouds. No complaint, really, it was nice - except for having to sponge out the 1/4" of water in my floor pan every day (gotta fix the cowl)!!

Did not get much work done over the last few days as a result - you guys without garages understand. Regardless, prior to the rain, I was able to get a few more pieces out of the dash, and the dash cap removed. The cap was a real challenge; the last nut and screw turned together, forcing a wedge of something under the dash to get the nut to turn. And then, another nut was jammed between the underdash A/C unit and the dash, forcing me ti turn the nut with the end of a screwdriver - the slowest POSSIBLE way of turning a nut known to man.

Regardless, here are some reasonably >poor< pics of the removed dash cap and the nearly bare dash. The next goals will be:

1) REMOVE the entire dash. This requires the windshield to be taken out, which serves this purpose as well as allowing me to get to the cowl rust. Being a major job, I have to prep my garage (translation: make enough room in it for the Pinto >and< my wife's car - we have no basements in Texas) so that I can keep it rain free while the windshield is out.

2) RESTORE the dash cap - I have ordered materials to do so, though I am on the hunt for the right color corinthian vinyl, and have some possible leads. Sure, I'd like to go the "Just Dashes" route like Starsky and Hutch, but I'm doing this one on my own.

3) REPAINT the dash while out of the car, and address all the firewall/sound deadening/heater box/etc. issues while the dash is out.

It's gonna be a project filled winter, but I hope to come out ahead once Spring comes.

Chris

Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

hellfirejim

Glad to see the you are knee deep in your project.  This is going to be a big project but the trick I leanred is to just make it a series of small projects.  When each small project gets done move to the next one until the big project is done.  It will show progress and helps keep you from getting burned out.

jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


popbumper

If it's that simple - excellent. Thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

FCANON

I just drop the stearing collum down to remove the dash. letting it rest ing the floor where it lays. 4 bolts to drop it

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

popbumper

Hey guys:

  Thanks for the replies...I guess photos would be helpful at this point, but let me explain first:

1) The seats were already out, I took them out while working on the floor. At 6'4", I would definitely >not< fit in the front floorboards otherwise  :lol:. It's hard enough as is!

2) Just about every accessory has already been removed - ashtray, glove box, radio, speaker, A/C panel, heater control bezel, instrument cluster, dash cap, control bezels, so there really is nothing impeding the removal EXCEPT that the dealer underdash A/C unit is really taking up a lot of room, and gets in the way of the heater box. Not sure how I'm going to get it out, I need to figure out what hose connections need to be removed first.

3) Steering - what all must be removed? Wheel and turn signal collar? MUST it be removed or can it stay in place?

Thanks guys. What an adventure!

Chris   
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dick1172762

Quote from: Pintony on August 17, 2008, 10:10:37 PM
Hey dick1172762,
Can you access the screws under the W/S gasket???
I did not know that!!!
COOL!!! 8)
From Pintony
Yes! With a very long screwdriver or nut driver (Ford used both types of screws) I'v had to glue the screws to the tool at times, but it always worked. Be ready, because the spedo cluster will most likely fall apart when you remove it from the dash.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

Chris! Windshield does not need to be removed to remove the dash. The row of screws at the base of the windshield can be removed and replaced with out removeing the windshield. Biggest problem is all the controls and wireing must be removed first, and be ready, because that sucker weighs a ton. Take the steering out first too.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

popbumper

Update for August 17th 2008

Sorry, no pics - got so busy I ran out of light.

Did some more "dash digging" tonite, found more leaves and cleaned them out. In addition:

1) Still don't know how to remove the windshield washer bezel!!
2) REMOVED THE DASH CAP! This was quite an ordeal - the stripped screw, I had to put pressure against the cap to hold the screw so I could move the nut. My hands are too large to fit most anywhere in tight spots, so it was a fine balancing act of turning the nutdriver with my fingertips, and pressuting the dash cap with my other hand. Very tedious, but I did it. The other nut - I had to get the wrench between the dash and A/C unit, loosen it, and then back out the nut with a screwdriver....hard to picture but can be done if you are patient. What a job!

The dash is gonna end up being pulled off, by golly. I can see where the screws that hold it in place are, though obviously the windshield is going to have to be pulled out. I >love< mechanical engineers. How they made all this stuff fit together is a small miracle.

BTW, the heater box is really intimidating me. I know it needs to come apart (I think it's full of leaves and junk), and looks like a real job. Having the dash out will probably help this effort.

Pics soon!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for August 16 2008

Hellfire Jim suggested that I tart a thread out here for my project, and it makes sense; I will park it here from now on. Now that my car is quite in the throes of teardown (well, interior at least), I need to document it here.

I will probably take some pics tomorrow, but tonite I got a few things done. All of the work I am currently doing is for prep to repaint the dash. I am also going to remove the windshield, to conquer the rust under the seal, and allow for painting of the dash top surface. Here is what was completed:

1) Removed headlight bezel and switch
2) CAN'T figure out how to remove the windshield washer bezel!!
3) Removed the speaker - not only was it off center and held on with ONLY the dash cap nut, but the cone was toast. Need to fix that !
4) Got three of the dash cap nuts off, and three screws (thanks for the tip, FRANK). One nut is STRIPPED (meaning, the screw and nut turn together - arghh), it will need to be cut off. The last nut is quite concealed under the dash A/C unit.
5) Jockeyed the under dash A.C unit to get at the dash cap nut. It's gonna be a bit more work.
6) Discovered some rust at the drivers air vent duct - looks unfriendly, I'll wait on this one
7) Pulled the corner vents/air vanes (thanks again FRANK for the tips)

The biggest challenge so far has been the dash cap removal. Everything else seems to be falling into place, I am keeping labeled sandwich bags of parts so everything stays together. Looking forward to pulling the cap, them going after the windshield, and getting the dash painted. Then comes dash cap restoration, replacement, putting the dash back together, fix the cowl rust - and then onto the doors.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08