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oldskool787
Date: 02/12/2017 12:42 pm
77 Cruising wagon Rear cargo light
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Pinto Runabout wanted
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1975 Pinto bumpers
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74 Pinto Wagon Squire.Bright blue

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Looking for license plate bracket, interior parts 72' Runabout
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1976 Pinto runabout

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1976 Squire wagon

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Various parts for 1980 Pony (good to N.O.S. condition
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

73 Pinto Runabout Project

Started by Cookieboy, November 28, 2006, 07:57:20 PM

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Cookieboystoys

hand in cookiejar ---- Yes! Exactly! I earned the name "cookieboy"  ;D

under my desk at home is my own personal cookiejar... holds 3 packages - about 60 cookies... cheepo frosted oatmeal... lasts about 10 days... and I will go to the store just for cookies if I run out... same with milk...

Got Milk! and Cookies...

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

High_Horse

Quoteor like when I was a kid and told to go pick a willow branch when I did something bad
Like getting caught with hand in cookiejar.

                                                                                                                  Quoting_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Cookieboystoys

Happy to help Bill, I might even cash the check you sent me soon  ;)

(I keep forgetting but it's in the pile of checks to be deposited)

High Horse... or like when I was a kid and told to go pick a willow branch when I did something bad  :)
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

High_Horse

CookieBoy,
     Thats still better then being beaten with a batter.
     

                                                                                                                  High_Horse
                                                                                                                     #226
Quote... no more cookieboy as he will beat me with big ol' stick   
Posted on: February 01, 2007, 09:20:47 AMPosted by: oldkayaker 
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

77turbopinto

Sweet.

Thanks again for taking the time to sell me that part.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Cookieboystoys

Jerry, thanks for the heads up... we knew that it's the way it was done at the factory. I've been trying to find someone to install the headliner and very recently we found someone who might. Since I knew it couldn't be done before the body work was complete I did ask around and was told that yes a headliner could be put in without removing the window gaskets. Better to do before hand I would guess but since it wasn't an option I couldn't worry about it. Now that we have someone who "might" be able to install it sooner than what was expected I'm kicking myself for not ordering the headliner sooner...

Body guy is waiting for me to receive the backordered windshield gasket and as soon as I receive he will stop what he is doing and come get it. He wants the windows installed so he can move on to the next step in the painting process. Unfortunately time is an issue at this point as we are behind schedule and if I ask him to wait for the headliner... well... no more cookieboy as he will beat me with big ol' stick  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

oldkayaker

It is looking fantastic and I enjoy watching the great progress.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware of an installation sequence.  If you are using a stock style headliner, it gets installed before the window gaskets.  The headliner wraps around the window frame with some adhesive, then the window gaskets cover this up.  This applies to the windshield, quarter windows, and the hatch opening.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Cookieboystoys

also... air cleaner is finally painted... shiny  8)
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

stopped out tonight after work to see more progress...

door and window jams have been painted... glass will go back in hopefully Friday morning. Waiting for the windshield gasket I ordered from autokrafters, was backordered but was shipped late last week. He also got the red painted on the doors...

I called the muffler guys today and looks like a go to have it go there when body work is done. Also got a line on someone to install the headliner, we "might" even be able to get that installed before it leaves the body shop  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

here's a picture of the trunk area and one of the doors...

The trunk area will get one more coat of brown, I noticed a couple thin spots in the tire well. Interior of the doors is brown and will have black door panels and armrests that I got from the 80 parts car I stripped...

On a side note.... carb guy did stop out and took the carb to do a little more work on it and seal up some leaks. It is acting a lot better and will now idle but without having the exhaust on and final tuning hard to say how good it is. I've called the shop doing the exhaust to let them know they will be getting it soon. My thought is that once the body guy is done w/his part I want it to go directly to the exhaust shop before it comes home for the interior work. They'll also be doing the alignment as there are a lot of new parts in the front end.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

more updates...

He's been working on final primer getting ready for paint, lots of little areas needed work (low and high spots) and one of the front fenders and the hood needed a bit-o-work. He got the interior painted in the brown we picked to match the seats. He also pointed out that the top of the dash should be done in black to match the dash pad. Rest of the dash is brown and once reassembled the black pieces should tie it all together.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

no deal on the seats... they're mine now  ;D

and the dash pad  ;D  ;D

I'll test fit the stripping in the morning before work and I will also bring along the spare gasket from the 80 to compair as well.

let you know on the morrow

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

Hey Brian,
I'll give you the 40.00 back for those seats!!! ;D
Look GREAT!!!
Do you have a photo of the dash pad???

Did you get a chance to test fit the weatherstripping???
From Pintony

Cookieboystoys

Got the recovered dash pad delivered to me here at work today... I was worried as his first attempt wasn't up to my expectations... it looked awful.

WOW!!! he met and exceded my expectations this time... looks really really nice  ;D

Seats and Dash = Done!

Yahoo!!!
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Stopped in to check the progress this morning. Second coat of primer has been sprayed and he'll be taking the blocks to it again. Looking for dips and imperfections in the body work. If all goes well the doors will be coming off for paint and he'll be doing the interior soon.

Also... got my seats today. Not to shabby, origional owners did a little better job on the rear seat than this guy did on the fronts. I'm to picky sometimes, they do look great and the lumbar support he added will be nice ;D

I'm making him redo the dash, it didn't turn out good at all. I told him that if that was what he was gonna give me as finished I was gonna rip off the material he put on and cover it w/the plastic cover I had. He agreed to try again.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Douglas,...

#1 Reason = Time I got the header just before he started motor rebuild and body work. No time to send it out if I wanted it installed.

Also... neither of up could tell what the coating was on it... now that it seems to be turning white again we suspect there are multiple layers of "something and it's burning off the latest coating (possible paint) that the seller put on to make it look better. When I got it there were no scuff marks on it and that did look a little suspicious for something the seller had for some time and had installed on a car (found it wouldn't fit his application = street rod/not a pinto). Best guess at this point is the latest coating will burn off and leave whatever white coating was on it before.

I may decide to pull it at some later time.. have to see what happens w/current coating and will have to be done later.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

douglasskemp

I am curious, with all the money you are putting in your 73, why not just get the header ceramic coated?  Then you won't have to worry about the paint changing colors at all.
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

Cookieboystoys

I've had him rebuild/service several carbs for me (pinto,truck,mustang) and has never charged me more that $80 and that included parts/gaskets/labor. He's the only one in the area that will touch a carb (all mechanics around here will tell you to call him) and most are very happy w/his service.

If I had to pick one thing I don't like about him... he thinks everything is fixable... and sometimes I think a replacement should be recommended. He keeps telling me this carb is fine and I know it has several different issues. Had a similar situation w/the carb on the mustang and took awhile and couple attempts to get him to agree that a replacement was necessary. Mustang carb did work much better when he was done but not perfect and I like perfect.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Farmboy

Cookieboy, what does he want to rebuild the carb., I was quoted a price of $350 to do mine, I went to napa and ordered one, picked it up yesterday and the price came to $218.00 with the core charge.
  I put the new rebuilt in this morning and just got back from the test drive and all I can say is TOO COOL, the first time I have came back from a test drive and not knowing what to do next to make it better :fastcar:
  I do what the voices in my Pinto tell me to do




74 Pinto Wagon
71 Runabout (parts car)

Cookieboystoys

Pintosopher, Thanks for the info on the aluminum water pump... I know Fcanon was wondering about it.

Motor is now all hooked up... minor issues w/carb sucking air as well as other issues like choke but was aware of the issues before all this was started. Carb guy is going out to take a look today and we'll see what he thinks. Me... I wanna replace it, to many issues with this one.

Interesting... now that the motor has run a bit more the header seems to be turning white again ???

and... the underside of hood is painted... Oooooo.... shiney 8) gotta wear shades...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintosopher

Hi All ,
  Those aluminum water pumps for 2.0L EAO fords can be purchased from B.A.T. out in East (Florida) They are quite common on almost every Formula Ford 2000 or Ford powered S2000 SCCA road racer. They also have quite a stock of racing goodies for the same engine, but be prepared, your wallet will suffer! Then again race cars always cost money.
Best of luck on your project!

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

High_Horse



                                     Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....Nice!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                                             High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Cookieboystoys

Yahoo! the new oil pump is installed and WORKING!!! as it should. I got to hear it run (just for a little because no radiator/water yet) and OMG does it sound mean! w/just the header and no pipe... wow  :o Sounds like a race car...

He still had a bit to do with getting it all hooked up to run but it was nice to see the valve cover and timing cover painted. Lots of cleanup to do yet under the hood but back underway now that the oil pump issue has been fixed.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

High_Horse

CookieBoy
       You just take your time and keep doing a good job. At least your seats are covered, mine are not.


                                                                                                                         High_Horse
                                                                                                                           #226
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Cookieboystoys

I stopped out today to see the motor in the car... even though it will be coming back out (oil pump issues) and he hasn't painted the valve/timing/air cleaner I wanted to see the header installed. Turns out the previous owner of the header painted it w/regular white paint and once the motor started up the header paint starting burning/smoking instantly and is now brown.

It's a start... more to come...

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

I was too.. unfortunate and expensive that oil pump turned out to be.

trust me... it's brown ( w/little reddish tint  ;) )

head bolts = covered
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

Hey Brian,
Sorry to hear about your oil pump woes...
The material on your seats look burgandy not brown...???
Be sure to re-torq your head B4 installing the valve cover...
From Pintony

Cookieboystoys

well... as some of you may know engine reinstall didn't go as planned. Moror went in, Header even fit, and motor sounded good but.... to much oil pressure. Turns out the oil pump is defective and some valve in the pump isn't working correctly. Blowing up the oil filters like balloons and according to Melling Tech Support has to be putting out 100+psi for it to do that to the oil filters so... out comes the motor, new pump on order and try again  :(

On a possitive note I stopped by the reupholster's shop tonight to drop off the dash pad and got to see my seats in the process. the previous owner had redone the rear seats (very nice work too) and gave me the matching material to have the front seats recovered to match. After finding an origional set of early Pinto hi-back buckets (Thanks Pintony) I took them in to have them recovered to match. He's even adding a little bit of lumbar support for me  ;D

Also got the mirros I ordered, they don't look exactly like origional Ford remotes but I think they will work for now. Later I will most likely have to get some good remotes.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Thanks Joe, I sure hope it tuns out as nice as expected  ;D

more updates... pictures of engine, should go in and be running tomorrow. In the second picture you can see the old block back against the wall. Nothing wrong with the old one, just acquired a rebuilt for a price I wasn't willing to pass up on (thanks Pintony).
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

joecool85

Wow, you are going to have one snazzy car when this is done!
Life is what you make it.
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