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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

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russosborne

Thanks, but it isn't for a couple more days. The fifth. Speaking of fifths, I could really go for one. But I don't drink alky anymore. O'douls is it for me. Well, St. Pauli's Girl has a good N/A. I really wish Heineken did though. I miss that stuff.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 02, 2014, 04:21:40 PM
  Maybe I can go out to eat for my birthday. Or spend it on Pinto stuff.  ;D

Whichever you decide to do, enjoy!  And, by the way, Happy Birthday!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on August 02, 2014, 04:21:40 PM
Maybe I can go out to eat for my birthday. Or spend it on Pinto stuff.  ;D
Russ
Spend it on Pinto stuff, probably need to go on a diet anyways, LOL.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

 :'(
There is frame damage. But it looks like that at least was welded correctly.  :-\ I need to take pictures, but won't get to that until later. Wife needs to go spend money. ::)

Good news is that the guy who came with the hoist is building a '72 Chevelle, and the radiator I had was setup for a chevy. so he bought both it and the MKVII fan. Only $40, but at least now I have a little spending money. Maybe I can go out to eat for my birthday. Or spend it on Pinto stuff.  ;D
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

This is more or less me trying to convince myself. And somewhat of a ramble about what I need to do versus what I want to do.

I am not going to take the car any further apart.
I am not going to take the car any further apart.
I am not going to take the car any further apart.
I am not going to take the car any further apart.
I am not going to take the car any further apart.


Help! It isn't working. I WANT to take it apart.  :o

I keep reading other people's posts and it is making me want to do more than I have planned.
It is already much further apart than I had planned when I bought it. But then I thought it was complete and just needed some stuff finished up to at least be drivable.  >:(

I still need to take the rear bumper off so I can do the bumper move. I just can't decide which way to go. :-\ I'd like to remove the reinforcement stuff for weight. But the other way seems easier to me, even though it is more work. ??? I guess part of the problem is that I can't picture how to reattach the bumper once the inner stuff is gone like some have done. And I really want the bumpers tucked all the way up against the body. But with the inner stuff still attached, the stupid things are really too heavy for me to work with.

Interior is out of the car except for the dash. The dash doesn't need to come out, there is nothing wrong with it or the body behind it. Repeat that until it sinks in Russ.  :-[

Trans is missing >:( , and engine will be out later today, I hope. Yet another thing I hadn't planned on doing, but it is really a must so I can check out the damage on the driver's side inner fender. Once the engine is out I can really start work on the engine compartment. That shouldn't take much cash. It is really pretty clean, not a lot of grease. Give it a good scrubbing, should look much better. Then I have to figure out what to do about the damaged area. Replacing the inner fender  is beyond me. Most likely I will do what I usually do in these situations. Patch it up the best I can and live with it. I am thinking putting some sheet metal on the outside of it and seeing if I can weld up most of the holes. I've got two grinders, so grinding down the welds isn't a problem.  ;D
As long as the damage isn't structural I am not too worried. I'd just like to make it look better and make sure it doesn't spread. If it is structural, I am going to cry. :'( And then figure out how to make it safe at least. I can't lose another car to something I should have seen before buying it.  :-[


About all that is left is suspension and glass. And doors. I am NOT taking them off, I can't lift that much weight anymore. Although I do need to rebuild the hinges. If I could get an 8 inch rear I'd take this one off. But I am not doing that until I have one. Glass will need to come out when I have the car painted, but that is a long ways off. Better to keep it installed and reasonably protected. And to keep the water out when it does rain like it did tonight. About had to man the lifeboats.  :D

I see a couple of people who have done the wooden body tilter that I had posted about a few years ago. I keep thinking that I can do that, I HAVE done that with a much bigger car. But since there is no rust on this car I don't NEED to do that. I don't think I have the room to do it anyway. Besides, I don't NEED to do that. Lather, rinse and repeat, Russ, until it sinks in.

No point in taking the front suspension off yet. I want to rebuild it, but until I have the money to do it I need to keep the car rolling at least. I haven't even really looked at it. I am just going to rebuild it, it has to be bad at this point. Rubber doesn't do well here in the desert.

And I need to work on the battery box/storage area yet. I have it pretty much planned out in my head, just need to do it. I'll have to bolt the framwork together for now, but eventually I'd like to weld it together. At least this is something I can do most of the work now. I'll have to decide what to use for the box at some point. Needs to be strong enough so that it won't collapse if I set something on it. I will have lots of framing to help prevent that.

I might as well remove the gas tank. I have no idea how long the car has sat, but I am sure the tank needs cleaned at least. i don't even know if there is any gas in it.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I got just a little done.

I got the tube going across the rear floor installed. More or less. It is as good as the factory did the fold down hinge there, but I am going to just consider this temporary. I will probably be changing the tube for a 14 gauge, if not a 1/8th inch later on. I am using the factory holes for the two larger screws at each end. I am planning on welding the tube in place once I decide on the thickness I want to use. Yes, I do have other plans for it besides just this.  ;D Not going into details yet, it all depends on if I get a welder and learn how to use it.

Decided to see if I could use the smaller piece of the fold down as a base for the new lid. I think it will work.
The three little tubes are mainly just to make sure for now that the lid that is there stays there. Although I may end up doing something similar to this later on. There will be a frame for the lid going all the way forward to where it will end.

These wagon cargo areas are pretty small. I can barely be in there on my hands and knees, my back is scraping the roof.

I'd probably be out there doing some more, but some guy named Noah is going around looking for pairs of animals.

thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, my luck with people is consistent, if nothing else.
Still waiting to hear back from the guy if today is going to happen or not. I seem to have this happen frequently when dealing with others. One of many reasons I tend to try not to have to do it.

I did find out I have the correct 2.3 frame mounts, so that is one less concern. Finally found a picture in the manual of the two types.

And unless I am really wrong, I don't have a transmission crossmember to go along with the missing transmission. I sure haven't seen it anywhere. Another thing to buy later on.

So I sit here and wait. sigh.

Update, I will be waiting until tomorrow now. I hate relying on others.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

On to more cheerful stuff.

Can you guess from the pictures what I am going to be doing a bit later?

Yep, pulling the engine.  ;D

Of course for my wife it is more of a  >:(

I am hoping that I won't find the frame rail is damaged along with the fender well. That could put a big downer on all of this. But I need to know, and the sooner the better.

I have had some stuff for sale on craigslist that I won't or can't use on the Pinto.
Last night I added that I would trade for use of an engine hoist, if the person brings it to my house. Well, that did the trick. I've had like 4 people interested. This is for the other battery relocation kit I have, the one with the marine style box. It still goes for almost $100 on Summit's site. I paid like $40 for it on the clearance table a few years ago. the guy is supposed to bring it over this evening. Should take all of 5 minutes. In the one picture below you can see a white piece of clothes hanger. That little thing is all that is holding the engine in place.  :o


Now if someone would just buy the radiator and MkVII electric fan so I could have a little fun money for my birthday next week.  :( I am almost to the point of scrapping the radiator just to get a little cash. I have that and one slotted aluminum rim that was in the back of the car. Short of pulling a tire off and putting the rim on I am not even sure it is for a Pinto. I don't even know how to measure it, it could be 13-15 inches, depending on the spot I measured it at. Plus now the folding seat metal. Maybe I could get enough for the dollar menu somewhere.

I also decided that I want a Harbor Freight flux core welder. I know, I know. But it sounds like it would be the right tool for me. Cheap and it does work, although like most I think they over rate it's capacity but I wouldn't be doing 1/4 inch stuff. Not more than 1/8th at most. Simple, cheap, and easy. Three very important considerations right now for me.
Since I found out how cheap and easy steel can be to get I have a few things I would like to do with a welder.

thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

How to get really depressed without trying.
Do a search on subframe connectors.
Read the search results.
Read the ones that you were involved in.
Read the one that was about your 79 Pinto project.
Read the one in that about having to put your dog down.
Instant and total depression without trying.
And I still can't find the posts I am looking for.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Sigh.
Well, so much for that idea. :(
I won't be using the stock folding seat stuff after all. Turns out that putting the 2 inch spacer on to raise it caused other clearance issues I didn't think about in regards to the folding function. Probably for the best, that stuff weighs a ton and I was going to have to widen it somehow anyway. So I will still use the long piece  of tubing (maybe, see below) I cut to fit between the wheel wells, and the steel angle to make a frame, I will just have to buy some sheet of some sort for the lid and box, and a sturdy piece of piano hinge. I still want to be able to toss stuff in the cargo area, so it will need to be somewhat sturdy.

Speaking of the wheel wells, did you know that the tops of them are closer to each other than they are at the floor? I didn't.  :-[  They are like /  \ not l   l.
I measured the distance between them at the floor, but then tried to put the cut piece in from the top. It was only after shortening it twice that I figured that out by accident. I had the piece laying on the floor and realized it just slid into place. I stupidly just assumed I made a measuring mistake instead of double checking it before cutting them again.  :-[
Still useable, just not the perfect fit I was going for.

Also, I took the inner quarter panels off before doing this. I really like the look of the sheet metal vs. the panels. I think I am going to leave them off(they are garbasge anyway and I was going to have to replace them), and just fill in the little holes for the panel clips. Maybe install access panels for the holes for the tail lights. I've seen some that are for cars/trucks in the past, hopefully I can still find them when the time comes. If not, the holes aren't that bad looking.

It's too late tonight to start cutting the angle for the frame, so I am probably done for today.  :( Yes, I tend to focus on one project at a time. Otherwise I end up forgetting stuff when I get back to it.

Speaking of cutting, I spent yesterday cutting the tubing. I couldn't find the wrench for my grinder, so I ended up using a hacksaw. My arm still hurts and this was only 16 gauge.  :-[
And then after I was all done I did find the stupid wrench. Idiot me, I put it where it belongs, there is a slot in the handle of the grinder for it. I never thought to look there, I never ever kept it there in Ohio, but when we were getting ready to move I must have thought that it was a good idea but then forgot about it 4 months later.

I might end up replacing the tubing I have with a larger gauge. I have an idea I want to think about/research that would require a thicker gauge metal. I just need to find out how thick it should be. It's a crazy idea :o but I think it might solve some of my issues with stuff I want to do with the car eventually.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, I finally got the steel tubing I need. Ended up at the first place I was going to try, the one Art suggested didn't have any in the remnant section that would work and I could afford and I was in a hurry because my wife was in the car and very hungry. So after we ate (at my favorite Chinese place of all time, which is in East Mesa   ;D )  I went to the other place and got a 5 foot piece for $11 something. Not bad. Did some other stuff over there while we were there afterwards.

Haven't gotten anything done to the car though. When we got home I was so tired I fell asleep on the couch for a couple of hours, then we had to go to True Value hardware to get some screws for the car.
I hope they work, I hadn't realized until we got there that the ones off the car are sheetmetal screws, not bolts. Talking about the two on each end that is. I think I got the right size, it was hard for me to compare them. If not, I will have to do something else, like use bolts and nuts. Which is hard to do when you are the only one working on the car and one is inside it and the other end is underneath. Will worry about that tomorrow after I cut the tube to size. It's a little too late for that tonight, the grinder makes a tad too much noise. :(


Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks!
That didn't show up in my search for some reason.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on July 28, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
Tomorrow I plan on going to a metal supply place in Mesa. They have a remnant section,
Russ, this is the place to go for metal...

http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/Locations/Phoenix-Metal
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Well, darn.
It looks like it is just the plain jane cam.
I guess having the Mustang cast iron header is all the luck I am going to have.
Which isn't bad. :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Got a little accomplished today. I guess that is all I can ask for.  :-\

I got that step drill bit I needed from Harbor Freight. That thing went thru the firewall like it was nothing. Not bad for $6.48 with tax. So I made a hole for the starter cable and routed it. I can't do the ends yet for two reasons. One is I am going to need a propane plumber's torch, my little soldering gun could just barely handle the 8 gauge wire, no way will it be enough to do the cables, and two, I don't have a starter attached to the engine so I don't know how long I need to make the end coming out of the firewall. No biggie, there really isn't a great rush.  :(
I really like the way I was able to route the starter cable. That wireway along the door is perfect. I really didn't want to have to go underneath the body.

Oh, I used Accel Lightning Cable. It came with the Mustang trunk mount kit. I looked it up today when I couldn't decide which cable to use(have 2 trunk mount kits) and found out this stuff is EXPENSIVE, so I figured I would splurge. ;D
It's just 2 gauge, which is what the other stuff is, but this stuff is supposed to be 50% lighter.

Please excuse the mess in the pictures. I am messy when I work.  :-[

I also took off the valve cover. I honestly don't know what I am looking at here. Don't know if it is a plain jane cam, a roller, or something that fell off a UFO.  ;D
Picture is attached, but I am going to try to search around for the answer as well.


Tomorrow I plan on going to a metal supply place in Mesa. They have a remnant section, hoping I can find a 4 foot piece of 2inch square tubing, prefer steel but aluminum would work. I would love a piece of solid aluminum, but I imagine that would be way out of my budget. I'd like to get that folding seat taken care of. I have some used angle steel (was the frame our old AC unit sat on, on the roof) that I am going to use to make a frame to box in that area from the floor up to the seat back. But I don't have any tubing for the spacers I need.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on July 28, 2014, 02:18:16 PM
Art, the engine is just sitting there. Not attached to anything. I'm surprised it doesn't fall out. ;D
Thanks,
Russ
Oh ok, LOL...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on July 28, 2014, 07:43:51 AM
No tranny hooked up, probably why it moved on ya..

Art, the engine is just sitting there. Not attached to anything. I'm surprised it doesn't fall out. ;D
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Really? I never get lucky. Look out, the world may be coming to an end. ;D
Maybe I should plan on using it instead of trying to buy a Ranger one.
I am thinking this engine came from a Mustang, or a Ranger. It is definitely not a Pinto 2.3. Newer, from what I have been told. Whoever started the install never finished it. Seems they just dropped it in the engine compartment and quit.
Thanks!
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dick1172762

You got lucky!!!! That's a fox body mustang cast iron header you have there. Very good header. Got one on my 80 Pinto. Sell new for over a $100.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

74 PintoWagon

No tranny hooked up, probably why it moved on ya..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

One more picture for tonight.
I need to go out before I forget and plug those holes.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, got a very little done. I had to play plumber in the house.

Got the exhaust manifold off. Guess what I found out? The engine was using it for some support. The engine didn't fall out, but it did move a bit. I had the hood support bar I am using propped on the head just in front of the valve cover, and all of a sudden the engine starts tilting forward. Took me a second to figure it out. Was almost funny.

I also got the battery tray off. It is damaged, I didn't see it until I start to take it off. Missing part of one corner, probably would still be fine to use if I was going to have a battery there. Pictures below. Any one want it, let me know.

What else? I decided on the route for the starter cable from the battery box. Now I need to go to Harbor Freight tomorrow to get a cheap step drill bit, I have to make a 3/4 inch hole, and the biggest bit I have is 1/2. The grommet for the hole needs the 3/4 inch. They have one on sale for like $5.99 that goes to 3/4. That's about my whole Pinto budget right now. Hoping to get a little fun cash on my birthday coming up.

I'm a little mentally tired. This whole job situation is really getting to me, and I am running out of fun free stuff to do on the Pinto. There is a lot I could do for $10 here, $20 there, but I just don't have that most of the time. I have to register our Subaru by the 5th, and here in Phoenix it will be a lot more than the $50ish it would be in Ohio. Also need to get legal and get an AZ driver's license. Oh, well. Life goes on, whether we want it to sometimes or not.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks, Dwayne.
Dick, I had never thought of that. I was just going to toss it. Thanks!
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dick1172762

Save that grill because you can cut out the teeth to fix a better grill. Most used grills have a tooth or 2 missing. Doint let that stop you from buy a grill. Easy fix.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dga57

Russ,
I can't answer all your questions, but I CAN tell you that all Pintos originally had 13" wheels.  I'm happy to see you continuing to make progress with your wagon!
Dwayne :) [size=78%]  [/size]

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, I need two inches for the folding seat. So I need to get some 2x2 tubing. Once I have money that is.  :(

I also got the corrosion cleaned out on the ignition switch connector, nothing like baking soda and water.  ;D Had to use WD40 to get the water out. Somewhere I have one of those little $75 compressors that have a tank about the size of 1gallon. But it was way too late to make that kind of noise, even if I had remembered I have it. Note to self. Find the compressor.
Had to use channel locks to get the connectors back together. Then I thought why not try my battery charger to test the electrical, but being an automatic type it wouldn't work, which I had already pretty much known. I've got to get a cheap battery somehow. I really want to make sure everything I changed works.

Then for some reason I decided to take the exhaust manifold off. Mainly so I can see what it takes to get the battery tray off. It looks ok, but underneath the car from the wheelwell I could see that there is some damage to the fenderwell under the tray from corrosion.
Plus, I really want to find one of those Ranger factory headers for this. Got almost all the bolts off, then a monsoon storm started to hit and I chickened out and came inside. Right in the middle of House of Hair, too. Can't listen to it in here, my wife hates metal and loves country. I am just the opposite. We are constantly saying to each other why did we get married again? :o

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Just a few more pictures.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks, Art.

I feel a little better now. I got everything out of the cargo area, and it doesn't look like a scrap heap anymore.  ;D But now I have to find room for everything. The seats are going to be the main problem, the rest I can find cubby holes to put them into.

I'll be back out later on to do some more work. I want to see how high I am going to have to raise the folding seat (w/o the cushion, of course) to clear the battery box. Two inches will probably be too much, but one inch might not do it. The idea is to keep it as close to stock as possible so those who don't know Pinto's won't know what I did, since the driver's side of it will be my secret hideaway spot.  ;D Small toolbox, jumper cables, etc.

I found the spare tire cover. It is broken, and I am afraid I might have done it when I put the seats in the back. :( I didn't know it was under there. Still, I can use it for a pattern later on. Although I don't think my spare (when I get one) will fit there. Speaking of which, I have 14 inch rims on the car. Was that a station wagon thing? I thought these all came with 13's.

Also, this car has a bumper hitch. Funny. Rated for 1000 lbs. Can a Pinto with a 2.3 even tow that much? At first I was going to get rid of it, but now I am not so sure. Would be nice having a car I can use to tow. Although when I do the bumper move that might force me to lose the hitch. I'd hate to have the bumper get pulled off. But that won't be tomorrow at least.

Oh, another strange to me thing. The alternator that was in the cargo area is an AC/Delco. Did Ford use those, or was someone putting a GM one?

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dga57 on July 26, 2014, 04:41:54 PM
Art, I think you're the only person I've ever heard say that! 

Dwayne :)
Dwayne, when I first looked at it I thought it would be a nightmare, lol, then I looked at the diagram in the Ford manual and it all came together, took less than 20 minutes and it was on the bench.. Maybe it was just one of them days when everything goes right,LOL.. ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on July 26, 2014, 06:33:52 PM
I thought it was going to be a lot harder. ;D Maybe my subconscious remembered doing it on the 79, because it came out pretty easily.
I hope those tabs for the vent are still there, the vent was just laying loose. I haven't crawled under to look. Not sure if I even can anymore. I can't do a lot of stuff that used to be easy for me. :-[ I can see the headline now. "Man dies under dash of Pinto because he couldn't get back up." :P

Russ
Russ, the tabs will be up there they are steel, if they are bent that means the duct may have bad slots and that's why it was just laying there, that or the last person to put it back up there just didn't  bother to twist the tabs if they are straight.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.