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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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dga57

In that case, it sounds like a step in the right direction!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Oh yeah.
In fact now I can get it behind the fence so I can work on it whenever I feel like it. Got to move it this weekend.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

The end is nigh.
The guy who is buying my Ranchero will take this as well. No money, but I need it gone, and would probably have had to pay someone to haul it off otherwise.
Plus hoping for some Karma with him to trade for the Mustang.
Plan is for this week, I just need to pull the Ranchero's engine which shouldn't take more than a day the way my stuff goes.
Yet another car the I have killed. oh well. It was a lot of fun for most of the time I was working on it, which is all that really matters.
thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Actually, probably won't be started period.
I should just get rid of it when I get the Ranchero out of the way.
Fun to think of doing, but probably not doable for me at this point.
Besides, wife would like to have a yard to do stuff with.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Won't be started until after the 79 is done.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend

Quote from: russosborne on September 11, 2019, 11:51:53 PM

... Can we all say Pinchero ;D ...

... Definitely would be a long term project. ...


NO! I've watched for many years now as you have dreamed, purchased, regretted, and dreamed again, purchased, regretted, etc, etc.. Please, for your own sake just get one car done so you can enjoy it. It has been painful to watch you torture yourself spinning in this revolving door. We are all only given so many days on this rotating rock and it is necessary to choose how we spend them. Between employment issues, health issues, a less than desirable climate to work in, code enforcement etc. your road has been more up hill than most have to deal with.  Pick your target (I assume the 79 ESS) and stay the course without deviation for your own good.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on September 12, 2019, 06:59:36 PM


Speaking of the frame damage/repair, I now have a sheet metal
bender that can do eighth inch steel. I could grind down the weld on the frame and make a c channel patch to go over it.

That might be the best idea I have had in quite a while.




Yup, that's a good one!!!

Dwayne ;D
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Great, now I am thinking about this.

Speaking of the frame damage/repair, I now have a sheet metal
bender that can do eighth inch steel. I could grind down the weld on the frame and make a c channel patch to go over it.

That might be the best idea I have had in quite a while.

Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I will still have to deal with the driver's side front frame, if I want to get it on the road.
But it would be really cool to have it and the Ranchero parked next to each other at shows.
Definitely would be a long term project.
Reading old threads here can be dangerous.  ;D
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on September 11, 2019, 11:51:53 PM
Well, I thought I was going to junk this. I may still. Later.
But I just got reminded of something.
Can we all say Pinchero ;D
Be fun to cut it up and see if I can do it. No stress if I screw it up.
Thanks,
Russ

Well now, there's an idea!!!  Like you said, no stress if it doesn't work out.  Plus it would be a super-neat ride if it does!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, I thought I was going to junk this. I may still. Later.
But I just got reminded of something.
Can we all say Pinchero ;D
Be fun to cut it up and see if I can do it. No stress if I screw it up.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks, Chris.

I don't know right now what will happen with this one. My wife really wants it gone. Have you seen my thread about the 79 I am getting in the morning? I really think I must be insane. Maybe a nice insane as opposed to a homicidal maniac, but insane none the less.

I'd like to keep this one, but at the moment it wouldn't take too much for me to get rid of ALL the cars.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

popbumper

Wow Russ, I went through this thread as well - what an utter ordeal your whole project has been. Man, I can relate to the problems, though my car was in much better shape "complete-wise" than yours when I bought it.


But thinking back, when I bought it TEN YEARS AGO, the amount of rust repair I had to do was absurd, especially the passenger side inner fender, which was DESTROYED from battery acid. The radiator support was swiss cheese, the cowl had a lot of rust, the quarter panels were both beat, the doors had rust, the floors were rusted from leaking water around the windshield, the gas tank was leaking, the sender was shot, all rubber parts were toast, headliner was ripped, the heater box was full of leaves, there was a colony of ants living on the top of the gas tank, the brake system was shot, the radiator leaked, the suspension was shot all around, the interior was fading, the sun had destroyed the rear inner plastic panels, the steering wheel was utterly broken.....


BUT THE CAR RAN AND DROVE.


Geeze, these projects are so crazy. Hope you get done what you want to get done!!


Chris   
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

russosborne

Hold on there.
I've just been reading this thread looking for some information (which I never found?) and I don't think I can cut this car up. I've got too much heart and soul invested in it.
My wife really wants it gone, but I can't do anything about that until the Ranchero is at least moveable, which won't be tomorrow for sure.
It just might still have a life with me.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

 :'(
Gee. Almost two years. And posting here to pretty much put the nail in the coffin on this one.
If you haven't seen my post in General talk, I just bought another 79 Pinto. No engine/trans. But full roll cage, subframes, 4:10 8 inch rear. Needs lots of work but solid. Something I've wanted to do with a car for a long time.
So the 74 is going to have to go. I'll be keeping the good stuff I bought for it, fuel cell, tubular upper control arms, etc. Can't actually get rid of it until I get the Ranchero at least on all fours and moveable again, but that needs to get done soon.
Might see what will work on the 79 from this one as far as sheet metal goes. Need inner fenders and radiator support. But with the full cage it might be more work than it is worth. Just don't know yet. I will be posting a new thread for it once I get it home.

Odds are I will be trying to get rid of the 74 shell the way it is soon. Good glass except for the windshield, doors are decent, body pretty good. Luggage rack. Don't know if it has gotten any water in it, will have to check out the floors soon. 8 inch Pinto/Mustang II rear (disassembled). Spare tire well cut out as shown somewhere above. And it has that repair on the driver's front frame, which probably makes it a better candidate for a parts donor. Will have to see.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Wow, I didn't realize you'd had your Pinto wagon that long!  Art's right though, it's often a good thing to take a break from a project and then come back to it later.  Here's wishing you the best!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

It's easy to get disgusted with a project, that's why it's good to take a break once in a while and do something else, when you come back you have a better outlook on it and get motivated again.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Wow, talk about depressing and encouraging at the same time.
I just for some strange unknown reason went back and read this whole thread.
After 2 years I am still broke, unemployed, depressed, and not working on the Pinto. Although I had forgotten a lot of what I have done on it and I want to get back to it.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Just a tad over my budget if that is $30 apiece.
Although right now my budget is $0, so pretty much everything is over that.  :o

This is the style I want so I can go off roading ;D , but not necessarily the brand.
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-pneumatic-swivel-caster-38944.html

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

I found some good 4" steel ones with grease fittings online for $30(can't remember where now)for a boat dolly I made, they worked great well worth the money. I tried the China Freight ones first and they went to the dumpster real quick..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Yeah.

The wood is cheap. Good casters can be really expensive. I have some cheap HF ones (not their cheapest, I think they are 5 inch ones) I bought a while back just for doing this that were like $6 each. I need to get the car off of the gravel first, or else I have to get some really expensive casters, the ones with real air filled tires, but I think even at HF those are well into the $20 each range or more. The ones I have won't really go through gravel well.

Maybe one of these days. The Pinto is the only car I WANT to work on yet it is the one I can't do anything to right now.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Wish he would have shown it without the car on it, wouldn't cost much to build one either, only bad thing is the casters they develop flat spots real easy..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I need one of these. I plan on building one, just not sure I can do it for the price he wants.
Plus just flat out easier if one is already built. Even if it isn't exactly the right size, but it has to be close enough.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/5634519896.html
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

getting being the key word.
if and when I get that room done, there is still the rest of the house to do.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Sounds like you're getting organized, I'm still working on it after 4yrs, LOL...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I tried quickly to get the inner part of the bumper support out with my press. I may still have to take them somewhere. I need to move the press to get better access to it and will try again first. I only have the cheap a$$ plates that came with it, and they are pretty small and want to go flying easily.

Got the shelves put up in the room, need to work on boxing/sorting stuff now. Going to have one 5 shelve unit for the Pinto, and one for the Ranchero. Poor Mustang is left off the list. But I don't have much for it anyway, and most of what I do is sitting in the hatchback area anyway.
I should be out there working on the room now, but we were supposed to go somewhere. That got cancelled ( no free lunch, darn it) and I am still trying to wake up. I need to make a couple of trips to the storage place and bring back boxes that are going on the new shelf, and take the Ranchero passenger seat there. I just realized I should take the Pinto seats, although at this point they are probably toast. Been sitting on the hood of the Pinto for at least a year. Not sure how long we are going to keep the storage since it will be all of Karen's ex's stuff and a bit of my car stuff, nothing worth paying $50 a month for for very long, unless he decides to help pay.
I like the style of the Pinto seats, but it will be much cheaper to just replace them with something like the 98ish Mustang seats that I put into the Mustang. Depends on money. What doesn't?

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Can't beat the small bumpers, but when they're tucked in the big ones don't look all that bad, especially for the cost, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Hmmm.
I was searching for something to make someone shut up on another forum who doesn't like this forum although he owns a Pinto. He's posted here some in the past, but I think he is expecting way too much. These are not that common of a car, and he is looking for parts mostly. And he seems to want instant answers.  :-\
(the guy is currently looking into drilling the bumper shocks (he has the cylindrical type) to let the gas out so he can shorten them to move his bumpers in.)

Anyway-
While doing so I came across the thread on "simple fat bumper fix" by joebob, http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=19149.0


I had forgotten about it to be honest. Reading through it I saw that I had posted about needing a press to try to modify the bumper supports I have since his fix doesn't work with station wagons. Well, I have a press now.  ;D 8)

Although I really want the small bumpers, I never got around to scrapping the large ones from the car. And I have a large bumper budget.  :'( So I may just play around and see what I can do with the bumpers now.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.