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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

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74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on August 09, 2014, 06:30:43 PM
Thanks, but sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel IS a train.  ::)
Russ
Just have to make it turn around and go the other way. ;) :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks. I found the hazard flasher, but not a turn signal one. But I haven't really looked hard yet.
There is also a chance I didn't get the steering column connector back together all the way. Or even that the turn signal switch itself is bad.
I need to get busy on this.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dennisofaz

Hi Russ,


I think there is a Flasher inside the dash above the glove box. 

russosborne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 09, 2014, 07:57:51 AM
For sure, better days are coming....



Thanks, but sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel IS a train.  ::)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dga57 on August 09, 2014, 01:11:11 AM
Hang in there, Russ!  We have faith in you!

Dwayne :)
For sure, better days are coming....

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Depression around birthdays and holidays is not uncommon.  Hang in there, Russ!  We have faith in you!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Slight update. I honestly haven't felt like leaving the house the last few days. The depression is winning. Just took a while. Having a birthday in the middle of all the c r a p that is going on just magnified how much of a failure I am feeling like.
I did check the horn. It works, and is extremely loud. Maybe too loud.
I have been looking online at stuff. I have a wish list at Speedway approaching $2000. I'll never see most of that stuff.
I was thinking of changing the tail lights, they have some neat ones for older cars. Then I remembered I have a wagon and the tail light is totally different than the one I had on the 79. So much for that idea.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Reeves1

Test the ground wires. Likely your problem.

I have a deep cycle battery for my electric trolling motor I bought in the mid 80s. Still going strong.
On the other hand....the 07 truck I had the batteries only lasted 4 years.

russosborne

I've got headlights, taillights, dash lights and some emergency flashers-although the switch is really touchy.
Got some bad bulbs. Not too surprising.

No turn signals. I don't know if there is a different flasher for just those or if it is something in the steering column.

Didn't get to try the horn tonight, will have to wait for daytime on that one.

Stop light switch is still disconnected, so I haven't been able to check those.

I might have to see if the starter that was in the back of the car works, and if so hook it up to the starter cable and see if that circuit works. Not much else I can test right now. Heater is out of the car, and so is the radio. Both of which I have no clue if they work or not anyway. But it seems at least that the engine compartment wiring that I modified is working.

I suppose I could check at the fuses and see if that part of the circuit is working.

And no fires. That is a good thing.  ;D

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.

Being where it is 115 or so everyday seems to kill batteries. So better to be safe than sorry.
It's getting to the time where I am going to have to  start spending money on the Subaru. Over 93000 miles. We've put about 91000 of those on it in 3.5 years. Original everything except for the battery and tires now. One of my license plate lights is out it seems. I know it could use brakes, they are a little softer than they used to be. Stuff like that. I've got to get a manual for it soon I suppose.  Can't let it start falling apart on me, too many more payments to go.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

chrisf1219

off topic a little I have a 05 ram with the oringal battery still going strong. good luck on project and happy birthday.  chris
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

russosborne

thanks. ;D
I am now what used to be the national speed limit.  :-X

I got a battery for the Pinto to test out the electrical. Problem is that it cost me $155. Went and got the oil changed on the Subaru and they suggested I keep an eye out on the battery, it was starting to get weak. So figuring that I had better do it while I had the money( my brother is ok with taking it out of the rent.  :-[ ) I went ahead and got one. Man those things have gone up in price since the last time I had to buy one! :(

I kept the old one, I know it still works. For a $5 core charge that was a no-brainer. A used one around here would have cost around $40 since they all charge the core charge and I didn't have one to trade in. Got this one at Pepboys. Bosch with a 3 year full replacement, and then 5 more years prorated. I was going to get one at Autozone, but they couldn't install it until later on today. Glad I didn't, got the same warranty and a cheaper core charge (they wanted $15) for about $15 less. The battery in the Subaru was the factory original, made by Panasonic. After 4+ years I guess it did good.  :)

I also got some Lincoln wire at Home Depot. $12.99 for what most places online charge over $18 for, and no shipping. Just one pound of the .030 wire. But I figure it is worth it to see if that improves my welding at all. Problem is I am so wore out I won't be doing any welding today.  :-[

I also got a basic set of gauges: volt, oil, water temp. Mechanical. Used, got them for $15. I shouldn't have gotten them, but I couldn't resist that price. Guy was just using them while he setup the car, then he went with higher end ones. But they are just what I had planned on using, so a good deal for me.  8)

I think it is nap time.  ;D

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Congratulations on the welder!  Take your time and I'm sure you'll develop a technique that works just right for you and what you want to do with it.  Also...




       HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!





Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Reeves1

Mine came with flux core. Hated it. Quickly converted to gas. Love it now.
I have a 10 lb spool of flux core I'll never use. Too bad shipping to you would be too much....

Wear long sleeves & closed to the neck. You can burn quick & bad.

I too have the auto darken lenses. Was welding under the dash of Ugly Yellow & was blocking the sensor & it wouldn't darken.....till I figured out what was going on.
Watch for that. Flash burn your eyes & it will feel like someone wire brushed your eyes.

I was stick welding as a kid. Worked for Dad's heavy const. co.
Likely burned a million (or more) lbs of rod !

russosborne

Thanks.

Been out trying out the new to me welder. Boy have I got a lot of practicing ahead of me.
But I now know how to change out the spool of wire. There wasn't a whole lot left on the roll it had installed. It came with another roll, but 035 instead of 030. Looked up the manual online, pretty simple operation even for me. So far it looks like I am a puller vs a pusher. Had to stop, the duty cycle on this is only 20%. Silly me thinking I would be welding on the car tonight. Probably not this week. Plan on using up this 2 lb roll practicing, but when it is gone I may not be able to get anymore for a while. Have to see how expensive the good stuff is.  And I also know how to read the setup guide. When I started I just left it the way the seller had it, but turns out he was doing thicker stuff and the wire speed was way too fast for 16 gauge metal.
I need to get some leather sleeves or some long sleeved cotton shirts. Probably go with sleeves. I have gloves and an apron(that doesn't have long enough ties for a fat person like me) but that is leaving bare skin on my arms and I am feeling it.
I need to learn to go slower. I was blowing thru the metal before I reset the speed, and now I need to stay in one spot longer to get the puddle going, but I keep wanting to rush it and that doesn't work. I tend to want to rush everything. Trying to focus on keeping a constant distance going as well, I tend to roller coaster my holding hand.

I am now officially back to being an AZ resident. Got the Subaru registered and my AZ driver's license today. Well, the temp license. They now mail the real license. Seems like a really good way to have ID theft to me, but I am not a gov't official.

Well, back out to burning wire. ouch ouch ouch.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on August 04, 2014, 12:44:37 AMI have to get up at the unholy hour of 8:30am
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW, Happy B-Day and many more to come..

                               
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks.

I took another measurement based more or less on one from the manual. It seems really close. Within an eigth or less as far as I can tell, but again these are just me and an old tape measure. It is hard for me at least to make sure I am doing it exactly the same going from side to side.
All I can really do at this point is carry on and see what happens down the road. Literally.  ;D

I wish I had some history of this car, but I don't. It could have been driven like this for 20 years. Or not.  :-\ The tires that are on it don't show any signs of uneven wear, but again I don't know if they were driven on or not. All I know about it is that at some point in the '90's it was still being insured.  :-\

On a possibly brighter moment, I got some birthday cash from my parents  ;D and I am going in the morning to look at a welder. Still the HF brand, but I think that is what I need at the moment. Nothing fancy until I get some skills at welding. Or if I just flat can't do it I won't be out too much. $125 for the welder, an auto darkening helmet, and some extra tips and wire. The wire I won't use, I do know better than to use HF wire.  ;D Although Lincoln wire that has been sitting around for who knows how long at Home Depot might not be a whole lot better. But everything I have heard about the HF flux core wire says to avoid it. I'll have to buy some gloves and stuff. All stuff I had in Ohio and got rid of, again.  :( Seems to be an ongoing trend with me.

I didn't get anything done to the car today other than those measurements. Had to go to my parent's for my birthday dinner, they will be out of town Tuesday. When we got home I was just exhausted for some reason. So I veg'ed out on the couch. Now I am feeling like doing something, but what I am ready to do is too noisy for this time of night.
Besides, I have to get up at the unholy hour of 8:30am to go look at the welder.  ;D
And then we have to go to the DMV and get the Subaru registered here, and I need to get an AZ license finally.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 03, 2014, 05:05:45 PM
I'm just going to try to enjoy working on this one for now.

Russ,

For what it's worth, I think you've got the right idea on this!  Hang in there, Buddy!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Sounds like you lucked out, as long as everything back is ok no wrinkles anywhere and the doors fit you should be good, front shouldn't be too hard to straighten if needed..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I took a couple of quick unscientific measurements and things seem good.
I looked at the manual and found a few other measurements I can try to take.
but for the most part I think I am going to bury my head in the sand on this one. Emotionally I just can't deal with the thought of having bought another piece of c r a p right now.
Worst case scenario is that I build the car and end up having to remove everything down the road and try to find another. I'm just going to try to enjoy working on this one for now.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Oh, this did make my engine decision for me. I will be keeping the 2.3. No way would I put a V8 in this car at this point.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Everything to the rear of it "seems" ok as far as I can tell. No obvious signs of wrinkled metal other than the fender well right at the point of damage, the doors open and close normally, the fender fit well, the bumper was on straight without excessive spacers.

As far as measuring it goes, about all I could do would be from the firewall forward. One of the pains of working by yourself, you can only do what you can reach.

I just seem to have this knack of finding cars that have hidden or at least not obvious serious issues. My wife hates when I say this, but I have my own personal black cloud.

At this point all I can really do is move forward I guess and see what happens once it is on the road, if I ever get that far.

thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Wow, wonder what happened with that, I'd be looking at that very closely and doing some measuring, doubt very much that it handled well probably ate up tires too..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Reeves1

Something serious happened to the front of that car, for a frame rail to brake off in front of the cross member.
Cannot help but wonder how far the damage goes backwards.
Also wonder if it will ever drive properly again.
Cross member may well be knocked out of alignment.
Check the lower fire wall / floor area for un-natural bends / wrinkles, where the frame rails attach.

russosborne

Last of the pictures for tonight.

These are all from the backside/outer driver's side showing the damage/repair. I wish whoever did this had taken more time with the fenderwell. Oh, well.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

And more pictures.

I took picture 4 because I thought I was missing most of the wheelwell. I guess these didn't have full ones?
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

more pictures.
That brown stuff in picture 1 and 4 is dirt.
Very temporary fender storage in picture 3.
Picture 2 is the corrosion damage.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Russ, step away from the Pinto.  :P

I can't help it. I need a 12 step program.

I took the fenders off tonight. BTW, thanks for nothing Ford, nowhere in the body manual does it show how to remove them.  >:( Everything else yes. Down to the littlest piece of trim, but no fenders.

Anyway, I wanted to see just how bad the damage was on the driver's side. yes, it is on both sides of the frame. I guess worrying about it is worthless. It looks reasonably well done. I hadn't noticed before that the radiator support has been repaired, about 2/3's of the way  towards the passenger side. Guess that was why I hadn't seen any repairs to it near the driver's side.

So having taken off the driver's fender I figured why stop now? I had wanted to take the passenger side fender off to route the starter cable a different way but had decided not to at the time. But being in the mood now I went ahead. I found some damage that I had noticed before, but I hadn't really seen how much there was.  :(

Under the battery tray and behind the spot welded support piece ( or whatever it is called) there is corrosion damage to the fender well from battery acid. Where it "L's" from vertical to horizontal. So now I guess I finally get to use the spot weld cutter I bought years ago to take that panel off, and then I'll probably have to cut out a section of the fender well and try to make a patch panel. You would think that someone would sell those.  :-\

The fenders themselves seem to be in pretty good shape. I just need to find a better storage place for them than what I did tonight.

So I guess the new plan is to remove all the wiring I just did, along with pretty much everything else that is attached to the firewall or fender wells. Then go to town on the metal, cleaning and repairing. Then paint it. I guess it will be the somewhat normal semi gloss black. I'd rather do body color, but painting the car is probably years away yet and I don't even have a clue about what color. Then reattach and reroute everything. I am hoping that this shouldn't take more than a few weeks, if I can get a cheap welder and learn how to use it. I really don't want the car stripped like this for very long, and I for sure don't want to have to redo it properly later just because I got in a rush now.  :(

The good thing about all this is that my $500 Pinto is actually in better shape than the $3000 Lemans I bought in Ohio. I just didn't know how bad that one really was until getting into it. I just wish I had the kind of money that I had when I was doing the Lemans. I hate having to scrimp and make do.  ;D And I can't do a frame off on the Pinto. It doesn't have a frame! ;D ;D ;D

Anyone know what this bracket is in the first picture? I am guessing starter solenoid.
And shouldn't there be a grommet on the mirror cable in the second?

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

and here are a couple of pictures of an empty engine compartment, and the engine out of it's cave.
I do have a tarp to put over the engine. Just need to dig it out. And it is only about 10 sizes too big, I had bought it to cover the Lemans before I was able to garage it back in Ohio.

thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Here are the pictures of the damage.  :'(
I do think that it looks like it was fixed more or less properly. But please feel free to give me your opinions. I am most definitely NOT an expert on that stuff.

I guess one good thing about the location is that the 2.3L mounts will bridge it. There is a gap though where one of the upper mounting bolts should be. I am going to have to pull that tire and take a look from the outside. I am thinking about getting a piece of plate steel  to put on the outside of the frame, and run the bolts for the mount thru it to sandwich it a bit more, if that wasn't done already.
Plus, then I can check that aluminum rim to see if it fits the Pinto. I wish I had 4 of those, I like that style. Had them on my 69 Mustang in high school, and my 70 GTO in college.  ;D That style is second only to the original Centerline style from the 70s to me. And depending on my mood it can be first somedays. Got to be deep dish on the rear though.  ;D
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.