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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

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russosborne

Thanks.

I'm a bit bummed, although I expected this.
I offered the guy selling the 8inch Pinto rear $100, he wants $150 and didn't even make a counter offer. I guess he is one of those who "knows what it is worth" types who would rather keep it than sell it for less. Oh well. He's had it for sale since I have been here in Phoenix, if not longer. I probably should get a Mustang 8 or 9 inch anyway. I don't think anyone makes a disk brake kit to fit the Pinto rear.

I only have the $100, and that is even iffy. I have supposedly sold the 2.3 for a whopping $80, and the intake for $25. Maybe I will just spend it on a birthday present for my wife instead.

And on the job front, I have an interview tomorrow afternoon for that job I went to an agency about last week. Got the call this morning. At least now I won't be under the got to get a job pressure. Maybe this one will be better. Not knowing anything about the Intel job makes it hard to judge though. I just can't have anything go smoothly in my life. There is always some hiccup or another. Although the only job offer I have gotten so far has been one that they have not interviewed or even met me.

and I didn't get anything at all done on the car today. I always do a roadtrip when I have an interview the day or two before so I know exactly where the place is. Then we had some shopping to do, haircut for me, etc. Didn't get home til about 7pm, and I am beat.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks.
I think it is one of those better in pictures than in person, but I am slightly prejudiced. My eyes go right to the bad parts.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

If anyone is interested, the roll of cheap carpet is now $14.99 for the smaller roll at PepBoys, something like 3x6 ft. Yes, I bought some.  ;D

Got what is there of the box carpeted. I got home too late to run power tools for very long, so I didn't get the little nooks done. But I did get the longer bolts and got the wood front bolted to the metal frame using the holes from the original 1 inch bolts I used to bolt it together. Just had to drill the wood to match. I do have one left to try to get, I did the others from inside the box since that is where the metal frame is, but this one I just couldn't get the drill to work that way.

I did screw up though with the carpet, I cut the lid piece a little too wide, which didn't leave me a nice single piece for the front. So I had to piece that together for now. I may redo that part later, but I will have to buy more carpet. I do plan on buying the larger roll, which is I think 6x9ft for about $30 to do the rest of the cargo floor and I should have plenty left over to redo the other. I think I will put some sort of padding under that though, just in case I have to crawl around on it. And of course I need to HAVE a floor before I worry about carpeting it.  ;D

I used staples to attach it. Already had them, so no brainer even if I wanted to use glue. They show a bit more than I had thought they would, so I will have to go back and either paint them or use a Sharpie. I just didn't want to mess with glue and the fumes, I have asthma and no insurance, so I need to try to avoid certain things.

Oh, I totally forgot to mention my handle. I got it at True Value when I bought the bolts. It was $2.99 I think, in the cabinet hardware section. I really like it, but it doesn't show well in these pictures. Maybe in the sunlight tomorrow.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks!
I might be a little too proud of it, :-[ but since most of my projects end up a total cluster I am really happy and excited that this one actually works well and doesn't look like doodoo. 8) I may see if I can squeeze the budget for a roll of the cheap carpet that you can buy at Pepboys or other places. It used to be only $10, I am afraid to see what it costs now though. And of course this is another of those "I had one in Ohio and tossed it" things. I had actually bought it for the 79 and just held on to it until before we moved back here.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Yeah, Russ, it DOES look good.  I'm sure you'll get up to speed on the Pinto once you're all caught up on those bills.  Glad to see you are still finding little things you can work on now.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Patient? I keep telling my wife I don't have patients, I am not a doctor. ;D

I actually got something positive done! I mean, I need to take the car apart to do what I want to do with it, but that still feels like a negative.

I got my box working. ;D ;D ;D It is probably about 75% done, but it is functional. I need to fill in some areas with wood, do some more bolting and nutting( I still! need some longer bolts :-[ ). I had hoped the wrong ones I bought last week would work for what I did today, but they are just short if I want to use washers, which I do. Plus I hadn't planned on using them for this so I didn't buy enough. Hopefully that will be fixed tomorrow. Then I need to carpet it, which will have to wait probably, and find a handle for opening the lid, and something to prop the lid open. I am thinking about a hood strut type setup, but it might just be a stick for now.

One thing I am a little bummed about is that I didn't get the cut for the trans tunnel just right. It's about a half inch to big. But it is even all the way around, and I can fill it with something. Going to be carpeted, so I am the only one who will know the truth. I just really thought I could do better.

It doesn't look like it in the pictures, but the front piece is flush with the crossmember on the floor. It was mostly luck. I am not that good.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Just gotta be patient, you'll be caught up before you know it..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

No pictures yet, but I just finished taking off the front suspension. I even got the strut rods off. Used the ol' manual effort. Sometimes my air tools just don't cut it, I think it is because I don't have a decent sized compressor.

I put the stuff for sale here on craigslist, one of the things I said I would trade for would be a bigger vertical compressor.

But I don't think I will have any luck selling this stuff. I see the same Pinto/Mustang II stuff for sale that has been up for months. Just doesn't seem to be a big Pinto group here. If I could take this stuff back to Ohio I bet I could get rid of it all real quick. Oh, well. At least I might have a chance of buying that Pinto 8 inch rear that is on there.

I am about to run out of stuff to do on the car now. At least the free stuff. There is lots I can do with money. It is as apart as it can be without taking the doors and glass off, and that is not happening any time soon. Not sitting out in the open it isn't going to happen. Hopefully once I start my new job I will be able to spend a little on the Pinto. But we have lots of bills we are behind on, so that takes priority. But I ought to be able to buy a little sheet metal here, some paint there, etc. I am hoping we will get caught up before Christmas.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, I got some stuff done. I never imagined doing all this when I bought this car. Oh, well.
I did something I will regret later on, I had to cut the ebrake cables, I couldn't get them off of the trans tunnel brackets.
I'll let the pictures do the talking, my fingers are sore and tired.
I also put a bunch of stuff up for sale here. I'll probably put it on the Phoenix CL later on.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I am changing plans midstream. Not sure about the engine at this point, but I am going to go ahead and set the car up like I am going with a V8. Which I probably am. Anybody want a really mixed up 2.3l? ;D

The gas tank, 6.75 rear, and the bumper hitch the car came with are going to go away. I'd like to sell them, but shipping would be an issue. Unless someone like say ART were to be driving here anyway.  ;D ;D ;D
I won't scrap the tank, that would be insane. :o But the other stuff probably will be scrapped at some point.
The rear would be off the car right now,except I forgot about the ebrake cable. OOPS. I may go out later and finish that. I disconnected it from the handle, and took the cable off of the brackets at the rear. Guess I missed something in the middle. :-[

I am going to be removing the spare tire well. I worked on that today, but my spot weld bit died, and I can't find all of the spot welds either. I was going to just cut it out after that, and my very old jigsaw broke. And I don't have any cutoff wheels left for the grinder. Where is that little violin playing "My Heart Bleeds For You" when I need it? ;D

I am thinking about trying to fit an efi tank with an internal pump there. A fuel cell isn't my first choice, but is an option if all else fails. I'd really rather have a stock type tank there that I don't have to worry about foam, weird fuel filler locations, etc. I figure without the spare well, there should be lots of room for a tank from a Mustang or something? Of course I don't know any dimensions yet. And I need to figure out the fuel filler, which probably eliminates the Mustang tanks, I think they all fill in the center rear of the car. Wait, I could do like GM did and have the filler behind the license plate. That is a good idea, Russ! The bumper reinforcement is also going bye-bye. So I could do that. I really like that idea.  ;D So there is probably something about it that won't work.  :(

Wish I had $150.  :-[ Someone local has been trying to unload an 8inch Pinto rear for several months. I am hoping they still have it around October. They had taken the listing down, I thought they had finally sold it, but it is back up as of yesterday.

I just can't believe how bad the prices have gotten on this stuff. >:( I bought a complete 8 inch from a 67 Mustang back in Ohio about 5 years ago for $20 (yes, TWENTY)from a friend of a friend on the Mustang forum. Was for the 79 Pinto.
Now, at least here, people are asking $150 and up for a bare 8inch Mustang housing.  >:( And I mean BARE. 9inch rears add about $100 for the bare housing. I have tried asking on the Mustang forum, but even there things have changed. Maybe it is here in AZ. I really don't know. Oh, well.  :-\ :( >:(

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.
More of the fun of not having a complete car when you start.  ::)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

That is for the PCV valve, there is a section of formed hose from that fitting to the PCV valve then another formed hose to the EGR spacer, the valve is inline.

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Here is the head port picture.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks. I did that and now I am more confused than ever. :-[
Attached are pictures.
The Mustang intake ports match the head ports perfectly. Yet the head has the D4 part number, and the intake has the E1 number.

First picture is the block number.
Second picture is I don't have a clue. What is that black thing?
Third picture is intake part number.
Fourth picture is intake ports.
I will post the head ports in next post.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dick1172762

Pull the intake off and you will know what model engine you have.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

russosborne

I need to quit thinking. I am seriously thinking about going the 302 route. Mainly because I can't seem to get a good grip on the 2.3 I have. For some reason I just have to know all about it and I can't seem to find out what I need to know. I ask questions in the other areas here and pretty much get nothing that helps. I know Ford V8s and I am way more comfortable with them. The main problem though is prices have just gone sky high compared to what I was used to even 5 years ago. but since I am going to be at a standstill anyway until well after I get a job I don't think trying to save a few hundred dollars is going to be worth it. But it almost seems like there are more V8 Pintos than 2.3. I don't want to be just "oh, another V8 car" either. And even going that way there are still issues that have to be solved like headers.
I'd really like to go 351C 4V, but I don't have the money anymore. That was the engine I had to go into my 69 Stang about 10 years ago. Needed rebuilt, but I had all the neat stuff for the outside of it. Coated headers, aluminum intake, etc. All long gone now. Besides, that would be too much work for me to be able to handle for the Pinto to be able to fit it in.

The whole idea behind this Pinto was to build it so that if I went with a V8 later on everything else would be up to snuff. I still want to do it that way. I just don't know if I will ever have this car ready to drive the way things are going right now.
Depressed? Who, ME? Heck yes!!!!! I thought I would come back to Phoenix, have no problems getting a $19 or more an hour job like I had when I left 8.5 years ago, and money would not be an issue. Now I may be looking at a $10 an hour job for survival and never have any extra money  to spend on a Pinto, or even going out to eat.

And I don't even have the Pinto in my name. The guy I bought it from never put it in his name, so the title has the previous seller's name on it and dated over 2 years ago. I don't know what the state of AZ is going to say about that, even if I lie and say I bought it back then but lost the title in a move just afterwards and have just now found it. I don't even have the money to pay for the regular title fee, much less any penalties. And they could insist on inspecting the car. It has two vins on it, the original and the one on the replacement fender well. And who knows what vin is on the engine.

I just always seem to buy cars that have some sort of serious issue. I must be cursed. Or just incredibly stupid.

And most of all I am really frustrated because I didn't have a chance to work on the Pinto today, and it is too late to go run the air compressor now.
I got a call about a job I sent my resume in for this morning from an agency. I had to go there and fill out a whole bunch of stupid paperwork, only to find out they haven't even submitted my resume to the hiring company yet. I did splurge with our credit card (yes, I am stupid) and buy a new hose for the compressor. Only an HF one, but I did get the rubber vs the poly like the one that just split apart. And I want to go play with it right now! :-)

and who am I kidding? the rear axle is next to come off. And then probably the front suspension. I have 6 jackstands, might as well use them. Who needs a rolling car when it can be up in the air?
I do have some furniture dollies (about $10 each) that work pretty well if I need to move the car around. The doors and hatch and glass are NOT coming off though. Even though this is Phoenix it still rains here. And the car is out in the open, so it needs to stay watertight. For now at least. Once I get to the point where painting is about to happen it is all coming apart.
If I am still around that is. I am in so much pain from yesterday. Every time I move I groan or yell.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, been busy on the car. I actually started at about 9am, been working on it off and on all day.

I really only meant to finish up mounting the frame for the box. I got one side done, then started on the other. Then I realized I drilled through a gas line. I think it is either the return or the other emissions one, it isn't the main supply. Either way, I think that made the decision I have been debating on about whether or not to use the electric fuel pump and filter from the Lemans. I am going to go ahead and do that. Not now, but at some point. Can't afford to buy any gas line right now.  :( I gave away 25 feet of aluminum half inch line back in Ohio before the move.

Anyways, while looking at the now broken line, I decided to go ahead and drop the tank. I was going to have to do it sooner or later so I decided sooner works.  ;D So I get that done. The tank had just a little gas in it, but it sure stinks like varnish. My eyes are still burning. I have it sitting in the sun, I hope that bakes the stuff so it quits stinking. Not sure what else I could do with it right now without spending money.

While I was under there I was looking at the rear bumper and the trailer hitch.  So that ended up coming off next. I had to use my air impact wrench for a couple of the hitch bolts. Then I started using the air ratchet. That was really nice up until the air hose broke. Not a big surprise, I am pretty sure it was the original yellow plastic hose that came with the compressor a dozen years or so ago. But it does end the air tool use for a while. I am pretty sure I did not bring any of the hose I had in Ohio with us.

These wagons do have what seems to be to me a subframe. It just doesn't extend forward under the seating area. I honestly don't remember if my 79 had anything like this or not.

Darn it. The tank picture doesn't show what I found when I dropped it. There was a 2-3 inch nail and a small bolt sitting on it. Oh, well.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Yeah, I wish I knew who this last place hired. The guy had told me that 3 out of the 5 interviewees were unemployed. But that is one of those things I will likely never find out.

My brain really isn't doing well. I think it is going soft from lack of use. I bought some longer bolts today for the frame I built and just went out to use them. I had drilled the holes yesterday, but it seems I forgot to go up to the final size I needed for them. Grrrr. I'll have to fix that tomorrow, too late tonight for that kind of noise.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Yep, they have a revolving door but what the heck could be something to tie you over until something good comes up..

I also found out over there that it's easier to get a job if you're already working, seems nobody wants to hire anyone that's unemployed, at least in my field it was.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks.
I got a lead on a job, but it is not a tech job. It is working at the Target distribution center here. I don't know if I should apply or not. It sounds like they have a lot of turnover, so there isn't a real deadline to apply.

Once I take another kind of job I am admitting I can't find a tech job and throwing away my 20 years experience. I may have to do that soon, but it is very hard to think about.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Sorry bout the job, hang in there though something will come up..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I found out more about the rear bumpers. I also posted this in the simple fat bumper fix.
There IS a difference with the rear mounts, wagon vs the sedan/hatch. :o I found it while studying the factory manual. Thanks again, Art, for that. It's been a car saver.  ;D

Oh, and I figured out a way around the box mounting problem. I just drilled through the cross member from inside the cargo area. My 5/16th drill bit was just long enough to do the job. Now all I need are 4 of some probably 6 inch long 5/16 inch bolts. I've been using 5/16th, so I already have the washers and nuts. And then I have to try to rig up something so I can tighten them by myself, cause my arms are NOT that long.  ;D  More of the fun of working entirely by myself. With my wife's physical limitations she can't help with most stuff if it involves bending and crawling around inside the car and this fits that description.

I am a bit cooler than I was earlier tonight. But I am still not happy with the job situation. If I don't find a decent job soon I am going to literally go insane.  >:(

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Those things are SOLID. I tried dropping one onto the face of it on concrete from about 3 feet and no movement at all.

Doesn't really matter anyway. I just got rejected for another job I interviewed for, they even said this"If we find a match, we will contact you. Otherwise, we will keep your resume on file for one year. We will review your resume against any positions that become available during that time. Please do not resubmit your resume."
In other words don't call us, we'll never call you either.

I'm beginning to take this really personally. I'm about to give up applying for electronics jobs. Maybe I can get a job stocking shelves for $8 an hour. Or maybe I will get lucky and have another, even worse heartattack. I've frankly had enough.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Is a press the only way to get that stuff out??, no way you can beat it out?, I've never seen them apart so I don't know I just saw the pic and it seems like a simple deal just slide it back to where it should be and put a bolt in done deal???..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Well, I'd have to have a press handy to get it just right. Which I don't.
My idea is to take them to a shop and have the inner pressed out. Then get rid of the rubber, which should allow the inner part to just slide in and out easily. Then I can find the sweet spot and drill and bolt it at that length.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dick1172762

Why not just put the front mounts on a press and make them shorter.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.