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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

5200 to Webber Conversion

Started by Scott Hamilton, August 18, 2013, 01:39:33 PM

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74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad


jeremysdad

My Google research says they do have a high speed enrichment circuit. :)

Carb is installed with the prior stated jettings. It smells just a touch rich, but I have yet to play with the ignition advance. ;) And it is really happy. :) And set at, I believe...appx 3/4 turn on the air screw and 1 & 3/4 on the mixture screw.

Electric choke is AWESOME!!!!!! :D lol I'll report back with the Gates part number pre-molded hose I used to do that (smartly circumvent the water choke) tomorrow. Also, this conversion needs a fuel pressure regulator. Anymore than 3.5 psi, and a Weber will puke gas into the fuel bowl.

A 5200 has a small orifice in the 5/16 inlet, a Weber doesn't. :)

amc49

No, not power or enrichment valve, not part of main jet circuit either. A separate very high speed only circuit that works only at high airflows. The discharge for the fuel is way up high around the choke plate. No screw in jet parts for it, part of casting and not shown in Holley pics. Intended to make up for the high speed lean out that four cylinders go through when they begin to show reversion at high rpm.

If you pull top cover/choke housing, there may be a brass dowel in one port there on bottom surface, thinking that was a restriction for it. The actual outlet is in the choke housing, thinking primary. IIRC, been a while, I seem to have misplaced my Mike Ulrich Holley 5200 book, that showed it. Outlet is high and in the bigger choke area to make sure it does not work until very high rpm. It pulls from a blank hole in fuel bowl, no jet there. There is a blank passage on both barrels IIRC but one does not get used?

jeremysdad

Quote from: amc49 on September 03, 2013, 02:30:16 AM
Does anyone know if the Weber has the high speed pullover enrichening circuit that the Holley 5200 does? The outlet for it is high in the carb, around the choke plates.

Power valve? If so, yes. If not, please clarify. :)

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Does anyone know if the Weber has the high speed pullover enrichening circuit that the Holley 5200 does? The outlet for it is high in the carb, around the choke plates.

jeremysdad

Quote from: Srt on August 28, 2013, 09:39:33 PM
Never intimated that the 38/38 was an emissions rated carb.

The 38/38 would of course have dual squirters because both throttle plates open simutaneously not progressively

References to Holley and Weber were in relation to early 71 vehicles as stated.

All statements were made based on my experiences on my car many years ago in 1971 on my (stock from the factory Weber 32/36 equipped manual trans) Pinto.

Good luck sorting yours out. I know once you get there it will have been worth the 'trip'.

I was not insinuating that you were, I was referring to the 5200 vs DFEV, in particular.

The carb I received, after taking it apart, was jetted this way from the factory:

Idle jets: 55/50
Mains: 137/140
Air correctors: 165/160
Emulsion tubes: Unknown, not taking it back apart. (lol)

Tomorrow morning, it goes on with idle jets 65/70, mains 140/145. Air correctors unchanged. I'll report back.

Enjoy your 3 day weekend!!!

Pintosopher

Quote from: Srt on August 26, 2013, 03:45:42 AM
Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously .

Just my 2 cents.
I have installed the Weber 38 DGAS non Progressive on a stock 2.0L  with headers, OMG !!!!! now that's where the Torque and HP were hiding!  :P  Screw the Smog check , My 9 inches of tires went up in a smoking Blizzard!  It was soo good that I swapped complete intakes just for a Smog check for the day. I still have those goodies for when I build another street car!
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Srt

Never intimated that the 38/38 was an emissions rated carb.

The 38/38 would of course have dual squirters because both throttle plates open simutaneously not progressively

References to Holley and Weber were in relation to early 71 vehicles as stated.

All statements were made based on my experiences on my car many years ago in 1971 on my (stock from the factory Weber 32/36 equipped manual trans) Pinto.

Good luck sorting yours out. I know once you get there it will have been worth the 'trip'.

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

74 PintoWagon

Mine is double discharge too, thought about plugging the secondary side up and see what happens, can always drill it back out if it don't work but I can't see having fuel dumped on the secondary when it's closed.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Quote from: Srt on August 26, 2013, 03:45:42 AM
Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously.

Just my 2 cents.

Have not installed, but from visual observation, I can say: there is no drilled hole for the decel valve, the accelerator pump 'squirter' is dual-discharge vs single, and it comes (generically) jetted much richer. It may be a 'Holley, under license from Weber', but a 5200 does not a Weber make. :)

I say again: 'Emissions-rated carburetor'. :) Not the same thing.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: jeremysdad on August 27, 2013, 06:11:29 PM
Just outside of Nashville, TN. Probably should hold on to it for a week or two, though, cause this is my daily ride back and forth to work. A call of 'I'll be there in 45, I had to change my carb back out on the side of I40' is better than 'I won't be there today.' (Got to love a motorhead boss!) lol

Guess when I upgrade cams, I'll be offering the Weber up, too. lol. Do they make a 38/38 with the 'F' oval neck vs the 'G' square neck? Guess one way or the other, I can mod my K&N. :) lol
Wow quite a ways away probably be a killer on the ride, but let me know when you decide to part with it I may still get it from ya..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 26, 2013, 08:02:51 AM
Where you at?, wouldn't mind having another one to experiment with.

Just outside of Nashville, TN. Probably should hold on to it for a week or two, though, cause this is my daily ride back and forth to work. A call of 'I'll be there in 45, I had to change my carb back out on the side of I40' is better than 'I won't be there today.' (Got to love a motorhead boss!) lol

Guess when I upgrade cams, I'll be offering the Weber up, too. lol. Do they make a 38/38 with the 'F' oval neck vs the 'G' square neck? Guess one way or the other, I can mod my K&N. :) lol

74 PintoWagon

Yeah they do seem pretty simple, not into drilling jets though it's not just the hole size it's the flow, I've seen it go both ways on that something I learned many moons ago. Friend of mine had a Falcon drag car with Tunnelport 427 with 2 4's on it, one day at the track he was running kinda lean so he decided he was gonna try drilling jets so we did and it worked, two passes and the car went faster each time, but third time 3/4 track it was a melt down and holed two pistons was that ever a surprise, (at the time I didn't know that he already talked to someone about that and he was told you don't drill jets) so he took the jets and had them flowed and they flowed less then than in their original state before the first drilling, big learning curve there,LOL. I also learned that with my injectors not to mix different brands of pills, I had the same number pill from two different brands and they both flowed different.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Yeah finding parts can be hard, but if you are willing to go the way of the drill then these are among the most tunable carbs on the planet.

If someone referring to me earlier the 2.0 I mentioned was the German 2.0 not the smaller 2.3. The one with 3 cam towers not 4.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: jeremysdad on August 25, 2013, 10:51:48 PM
Lol. Yep. Somebody should want it. I just h8 the water choke. Oh, and that whole 'not really tuneable for power' thing. You know, whatever. :) lol
Where you at?, wouldn't mind having another one to experiment with.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Srt on August 26, 2013, 03:45:42 AMLater the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Mine says that on the bottom of the float bowl.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Srt

By the way, another of my $00.02 worth; the 32/36 not being tuneable on the early cars is a bunch of crap.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Srt

Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously.

Just my 2 cents.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 25, 2013, 09:53:47 PM
Got a kit from a local Parts store here, if I get enough time tomorrow I should get it done. You're not selling yours are ya??..

Lol. Yep. Somebody should want it. I just h8 the water choke. Oh, and that whole 'not really tuneable for power' thing. You know, whatever. :) lol

74 PintoWagon

Got a kit from a local Parts store here, if I get enough time tomorrow I should get it done. You're not selling yours are ya??..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

I rebuilt mine with a kit from AutoZone, but the listing has disappeared.

That being said...mine works splendidly, but it is original to my 72 auto...and it wants more gas. $20 plus shipping. :) I'm just tired of the water choke, more than anything. lol

Speaking of my 5200, not my Weber. Just so we're clear.

74 PintoWagon

Got it all apart today and the two check balls were there, bowl had a bunch of crap in it so I'm sure it just needs a good cleaning.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 25, 2013, 10:14:57 AM
Well, this one came with the car so I have no idea what's inside but it looks like a reman?, I'm thinking maybe the check ball in the shooter cavity is missing?..

Could be, they're there for a reason.

@Scott: I'm amazed. I ordered one last night (found it for $199 on eBay), and she hasn't said a word. I did let her ride in the car this evening...maybe it's a 'Well, it does get better every day!) man win? :) lol Also a jetting kit...I'm giving mine a little more gas. :)

74 PintoWagon

Well, this one came with the car so I have no idea what's inside but it looks like a reman?, I'm thinking maybe the check ball in the shooter cavity is missing?..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Mine did that when I first got it. You could look down the primary bore and there would be a 1/4" of gas sitting on the butterfly. Rebuilt it, hasn't done it since. Not sure what was wrong, but it was obviously something. lol

74 PintoWagon

No flat spot on mine just drools after shut down, gonna dissect it today and see what's up and freshen er up.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

You need to define 2.0, Kind Sir. There are 2: The 2.0 EAO, and the 2.0 that is a Brazilian smaller brother of the 2.3. They are different, and for posterity's sake, should be defined to avoid confusion here, where we discuss the 2.0 'Pinto' and the 2.3. People get confused.

Otherwise, good info.

amc49

Wow, I drove those carbs for years and never had flat spot problems at all. But then I drilled holes a place or two in mine to change things up. Not for a flat spot though, rather to make car work well with a header.

With a Hooker header, 2.0 intake on a 2.3 motor, and some light head porting the basically otherwise stock engine made my guess maybe 130 HP and was a joy to drive with ATX in a Mustang II. Car ran right up until destroyed in a major hailstorm in '95. If you have to raise idle screw enough so that you get the throttle plate too high in the transfer slot you can easily get flat spot on sudden opening of throttle. The solution is to drop the plate back down to correct and drill a slight hole in the plate to let the extra air come in that would otherwise be going around the plate with the idle set higher to open plate further. That way you still have the full fuel supply of the transfer slot to stop the flat spot.

Older engines have slightly less vacuum and how you end up with throttle plate too far open to begin with. They need a bit more aircrack there.