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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New project... 1980 Runabout

Started by r4pinto, June 18, 2012, 09:56:55 PM

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r4pinto

Lastly a friend from high school was by my car last night and it reeked PIG rich while running. Possibly from weak spark not burning the fuel but unknown.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

As for the cylinder leak down any suggestions on how to do that.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Oh it's beyond frustration. I'm trying to drive this thing so I don't rack up miles on a car with broken heat so I can trade it in April and it keeps acting up. I've even tried to look for vacuum diagrams to see if they were never hooked up right on the 77 but can't get a straight answer.  So I will try to describe it. The EGR line is running to the bottom port on the carburetor, and the distributor is to the intake vacuum port on the front port of the intake. Is it possible the previous owners of the 77 had it hooked up wrong? Yep. But being as I have nothing to compare to I had to hook it up the same way since it's the 77 carb on the 80.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

Matt, I do feel your frustration..
Let's assume that the new electrical components eliminate "temperature" related tuning from the ignition, and you have consistent spark at all temps. The next logical issue is fuel supply and metering.  Fuel vapor lock? Sending unit/pickup clogged with contamination?
Hook a can of gas to the fuel pump( safely), eliminate that possibility. Back to the emissions related "leaks " that allow the system to bleed air into the intake. If necessary, set the car up temporarily minus all emission and evaluate all operating temp situations. You will find the gremlin.
The Last is a complete multi temp leakdown  test of the head gasket integrity (you could do this first and save a bunch of time and grief if it's the problem)  :o Nothing will save a poor seal at the head, you can tune yourself into an asylum, if it's the problem.

Have faith, the answer is there..

Pintosopher , been there, done that, and paid the price :P
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Stupid car is now stalling and running like crap after it sits. When cold it's fine except for that issue with the fast idle not working for no reason. Ordered a new ignition module and will also replace the distributor although I want to tow this thing to a field, pour gasoline on it and set the damn thing on fire.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Well I'm not actually rebuilding the rack, just replacing the tie rod ends. The car steers good or should I say as good as it can with worn tie rods lol


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

Great to hear that the whole banana is going to be eaten ;D  If you can find one to rent, I recommend the OTC Spring compressor (7045b) that goes inside where the front shocks reside normally, It is the Safest one to use, and that's why I bought one for My 72 work (future project) and a must have for My Dakota that I recently O'hauled the frt susp. Never worried after seeing the Turns that tool used to make the Springs loose enough for removal. and it worked great. Bought on Amazon...
While you have the rack dismantled, the pinion should be checked for excessive play, and shimmed as necessary for proper play on the rack teeth. Unfortunately , there's no Cam/locknut adjuster like many cars for this. If it's too tight, the rack will bind at either extreme of the full travel, so you may have to settle for some play to avoid the binding zone. This is where it could become a wash on just getting a new rack. :o
The car will track so much better when all of this is done, and you might even see more fuel mileage, and of course, peace of mind on tire wear/ bearing adjustments, etc... :D

Pintosopher,  loose ends are for wandering ,  directions are for folks with a fast horse ;D
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Well I went ahead and ordered the inner tie rods from Rockauto, as well as a new driver side rack and pinion bellow so I can properly fix the flame broiled one. After the fire I used an old one from a 2004 Impala rack and pinion core I had lying around. Lost the core charge since I didn't return it in time, so I got my money's worth by using the boot.

Additionally I got two power steering TRW outer tie rod ends off ebay which will be installed as well. The steering feels good but I am getting a little odd tire wear from the bad passenger side inner tie rod end. That's no big deal since I have a 5th tire in the trunk for the spare I can rotate to the car if it gets severe enough to where it can't be fixed by driving the car properly aligned.

I am on vacation in a couple weeks, so what I will do is get a grinder to cut through the rivets on the old ball joints, and replace all four ball joints, all tie rods, front coil springs, and shock absorbers. I'm sure the car will drive much better after I do that, even though it drives pretty good now. Since the rear end is not alignable being a solid rear axle I will just get a front end alignment to save me some money.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

That's why I'm not tacking it just yet. While I have a suspension kit I ordered for my old 77 I don't really want to replace the ball joints at the moment


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

Quote from: r4pinto on September 29, 2017, 10:01:41 PM
Vacuum modulator was definitely shot. Pulled the line off under the car and fluid poured out. New one on and smoking stopped, as did a little of the poor running. I did however find the passenger side inner tie rod is worn and needs done sooner rather than later. I will price new inner and outer tie rods and while I am at it replace the bad driver side rack and pinion boot. The rack really should be replaced but it's not in the funds. Heck new tie rods aren't either for that matter. Will do it as I can afford to.


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Good to hear that the Modulator was the issue. Tuning can now proceed  :D  On the Rack , be sure that when you set up for the new ends that you have verified the rack is in exact center of travel, or it'll be tough to get accurate alignment later. Measure 5 times before you cinch those inner links, ( ask Me how I know :P) Then proceed to set up for actual center to center on the outer tie rod ends. One noteworthy issue, Camber and Caster should be set before Toe, as they will mess up that measurement. I know you were planning on the front end rebuild, soooo think about that horse before the cart as the budget allows :o Loose bushings & Ball joints will sabatoge a reverse alignment.
Ackk it will cost more money!!!  :o
  Pintosopher, debt laden tools keep my wheels turning, but the ride is straight, and the tires love it! ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Vacuum modulator was definitely shot. Pulled the line off under the car and fluid poured out. New one on and smoking stopped, as did a little of the poor running. I did however find the passenger side inner tie rod is worn and needs done sooner rather than later. I will price new inner and outer tie rods and while I am at it replace the bad driver side rack and pinion boot. The rack really should be replaced but it's not in the funds. Heck new tie rods aren't either for that matter. Will do it as I can afford to.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

I actually cleaned a piston on my old Impala by putting ATF on the head. Cleaned it right up before I replaced the head


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dick1172762

I have known several really good gear heads that would put a quart of ATF in their engines to clean them out before they drained the oil out. Don't see how it could hurt.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

r4pinto

Well the vacuum modulator didn't hold out after it started to go and she was going through transmission fluid. Smoked like crazy once it failed completely. I ordered on through Rockauto and it got delivered today. I've been driving my dad's car the past couple days and will get my car fixed tonight. It will be nice to have it back on the road and save money on gas. I may blow out the line with carb cleaner to get as much fluid out of the vacuum line as possible. The bright side is that transmission fluid will clean the carbon right out of the engine.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: dick1172762 on September 26, 2017, 11:28:48 AM
   It makes steam in the cylinder which attacks carbon build up. I've used it all my life with no problems at all. DO NOT try this with a water hose. Use only a spray bottle with a fine mist. You can not use too much as it pass's out through the exhaust pipe. You may have to up the rpm while doing this.
I have a squirt bottle for my cats so I can use that. I will give it a try. Couldn't hurt


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dick1172762

Quote from: r4pinto on September 26, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
I’ve not heard of that. What does it do?


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It makes steam in the cylinder which attacks carbon build up. I've used it all my life with no problems at all. DO NOT try this with a water hose. Use only a spray bottle with a fine mist. You can not use too much as it pass's out through the exhaust pipe. You may have to up the rpm while doing this.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

r4pinto

Quote from: r4pinto on September 26, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
I've not heard of that. What does it do?


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Found some info. Interesting reading. May have to try it


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: dick1172762 on September 26, 2017, 09:10:06 AM
Have you tried spraying water down the carb while the engine is running? You don't need much water. I use a pump spray bottle like a Windex bottle. Work's very good and you will not believe all the junk that the exhaust will blow out the tail pipe. The spray of water will not rust or in any way hurt the engine. Work's for me.
I've not heard of that. What does it do?


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dick1172762

Have you tried spraying water down the carb while the engine is running? You don't need much water. I use a pump spray bottle like a Windex bottle. Work's very good and you will not believe all the junk that the exhaust will blow out the tail pipe. The spray of water will not rust or in any way hurt the engine. Work's for me.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

r4pinto

Quote from: r4pinto on September 26, 2017, 07:05:15 AM
One thing I've noticed... no smoke when idling unless cold with the choke closed, but in that case I know it is running rich because the choke is closed. Plug checks showed clean plugs and I'm getting 23-24mpg. If I speed 21 mpg. When revving I will see if anything is coming out when I work on the car this weekend. I'm at the point where driving to and from work I need it better. For car shows it was acceptable but for daily driving it needs to be right.


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I appreciate the suggestions and hopefully will find something to get it right.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: pintosopher on September 26, 2017, 07:00:48 AM
When you get a vacuum gauge, see if the reading jumps erratically in sync with the flat spot. Still could be a air leak related to vacuum controls , but you'll have to isolate those when you change carbs. Black smoke while the flat spot is there, is over rich flooding from the Accelerator Pump circuit.
One thing I've noticed... no smoke when idling unless cold with the choke closed, but in that case I know it is running rich because the choke is closed. Plug checks showed clean plugs and I'm getting 23-24mpg. If I speed 21 mpg. When revving I will see if anything is coming out when I work on the car this weekend. I'm at the point where driving to and from work I need it better. For car shows it was acceptable but for daily driving it needs to be right.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

Quote from: r4pinto on September 26, 2017, 06:51:25 AM
I am also going to do what you suggested and check the vacuum. My vacuum gauge may be MIA. If it is I will go to Autozone and rent one. I need to have one but my garage is a nightmare currently, and I will lose it, like I lose everything else. Hard to believe I can fit a couple cars in there  :P
When you get a vacuum gauge, see if the reading jumps erratically in sync with the flat spot. Still could be a air leak related to vacuum controls , but you'll have to isolate those when you change carbs. Black smoke while the flat spot is there, is over rich flooding from the Accelerator Pump circuit.
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Quote from: pintosopher on September 25, 2017, 08:36:16 PM
OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)

I am also going to do what you suggested and check the vacuum. My vacuum gauge may be MIA. If it is I will go to Autozone and rent one. I need to have one but my garage is a nightmare currently, and I will lose it, like I lose everything else. Hard to believe I can fit a couple cars in there  :P
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: pintosopher on September 25, 2017, 08:36:16 PM
OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)
It gets more interesting. Seems there is a "flat spot" on the carburetor. Don't know how else to describe it. Cold or warm if you give it gas it stumbles and nearly dies before accelerating. I almost got hit twice this morning because it just wouldn't go initially. I may see if I can get the original carb unclogged and functional this weekend. It has all new gaskets and been rebuilt but a plugged jet somewhere so no fuel flowing. I would spray starter fluid in and she would start but die. I found gas in the bowl but wouldn't spray. A shame since she ran great on the old carb.

Regardless I will do a carb swap, whether it be with that carb or another spare I have cleaned up. I will also change fuel filters since that one is from the 77 when I got her ready to go for Carlisle 2010.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Quote from: pintosopher on September 25, 2017, 08:29:46 PM
Check for any temp sensor that ties the vacuum system control to the cooling system jacket. This will affect timing and even carburetor system controls. Of course. an electrical component failure related to temp underhood. could also be in the mix too.
Pintosopher ,Looping the TVSS into lunacy :P :P
It's not hooked up actually. Due to the way the vacuum lines are hooked up. The 77 did not have it but the 80 did. This weekend I hope to get it closer.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Pintosopher

Check for any temp sensor that ties the vacuum system control to the cooling system jacket. This will affect timing and even carburetor system controls. Of course. an electrical component failure related to temp underhood. could also be in the mix too.
Pintosopher ,Looping the TVSS into lunacy :P :P
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Quote from: dick1172762 on September 25, 2017, 01:06:00 PM
What ever you do, keep up the good work. Car looks better every time I see a picture of it.
Thanks. Plugging away at it one issue at a time. It's not as easy to work on currently since it's my current daily driver due to no working blower motor on my Malibu which due to being an electronic blower controller will cost about $200 to replace. Back to this car though.

I drove the car Friday and something was off. It just seemed off and with the higher temperatures I drove my Dad's car to a football game. Sunday I drove my car and was fine. This morning it was fine as it was also after work. But after I left the gym it was not responding to acceleration as well, as if fuel or spark was off. Whatever the issue it doesn't affect it to where it's not drivable but to where it misfires more and can be felt. I am thinking possibly an issue with the distributor, ignition coil, or module since it happened after the car sat for a couple hours. This weekend it is cooler so I will find out later on.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dick1172762

What ever you do, keep up the good work. Car looks better every time I see a picture of it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

r4pinto

So this weekend it was too hot to work on the car after I cycled for 9 miles and cut the grass which left the car not touched. Drove to the store and it ran ok. I let it warm up 3-5 mins and all was ok. Still has the messed up fast idle but at least it drove fine. This upcoming weekend it will be back down to the 60s and 70s so I can work on fixing it.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress