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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Baby (aka the copper queen)

Started by blupinto, November 28, 2008, 09:41:14 PM

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blupinto

Whew! Time for an update!

                Today I replaced Wildfire's rear shocks, as the right side shock was shot... it rattled and made a racket going down the street. Thank you goes to Joe of Pangra74 fame for the new shocks. Boy, was that a pain in the arse! Getting that retaining nut off the shocks is for the birds! I wouldn't doubt that these are the original factory shocks.  Anyway, after that nightmare, I replaced the gas tank and shield, but I misplaced the filler tube bolts and nuts as well as the cork gasket. Then the real nightmare began. With Rodeo Girl's help I pushed Wildfire into the garage. Her paint is flaking off, and she gets lots of water in her doors because her sweeps are crap. She is still not running but that's a project for another day.  Before I panic I'll have everything realigned engine-wise. If she still runs horribly, then I'll take the next step. Poor Baby! :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

Fred Morgan

Becky see if you can get neighbor to tighten up shifter. IMPORTANT remember when you need to start auto like I showed you always make sure you're in park or neutral with brake set otherwise you will be waving bye bye to car as it drives off with no 1 in it.  Fred   :o
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

blupinto

I went to see Fred in Mission Beach and he kindly did a pressure test on Wildfire's radiator. She passed but it seems like I must be overfilling it but because there's a plate in the radiator I can't see where the proper level should be. It's more than an inch from the bottom of the filler...

    Bless Fred and Joy. I had starting troubles (that stranded me at my beanery a few weeks ago) and Fred showed me how to conquer that. I'm not sure what I need to do to correct it, so I'll wait til I hear from Fred to ask. It was nice visiting with them and their son and daughter and pooch. Wildfire made it safely back home and I'm so proud of her!

        The Sea Foam did not work so it'll be semi-retirement for the old girl til I can find out what her tapping is and get it resolved. Hopefully by next Knotts she'll be sporting fresh paint and purring like only a Pinto can.  :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

Fred Morgan

Becky if you feel like coming by Belmont Park I can do a pressure check on it. I think I will be there late Friday so Saturday could be good. Give me a call 928-916-1268.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

blupinto

I fill it that way too- but when the engine is cooled after a drive and I know coolant still escaped the radiator via the overflow hose the level is so low I don't see coolant from the filler at all- only the top of the radiator guts. I can't attest to the condition of the inner hoses and I thought I refilled the cooling system right. I did replace both Pintos' radiator caps with Stant 13 lb. pressure release caps- the ones with the red tabs. How hard is it to do a cooling system pressure test?
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Becky,
If your 74 has no coolant overflow reservoir tank, then the radiator isn't supposed to be full to the brim, it's supposed to be about a half inch below the rim of the inside of the filler. This is to allow for expansion of the coolant as it warms up. This also means that a proper pressure release type radiator cap should be used, so that the lever release can allow you to safely discharge the coolant if she overheats.
If you didn't bleed the coolant out of the automatic choke hoses for air bubbles, you may still have some air in the system. If the radiator is clear of obstructions, and all the main hoses are not rotted inside, and the good parts are still doing their job, Then it's time for a real pressure check of the cooling system, and ultimately the head gasket leakdown tests.

Fingers crossed,
Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

I can attest that the oil is good (or at least there's no milky oil that I've seen because I do frequent checks on all three of my cars' fluids as all three leak to some degree. As for the cap off the radiator, I've checked that before the trip to Knotts (She made boiling sounds then too- and that was after the thermostat, water pump and coolant were replaced. All the coolant does as the engine warms up is try to overflow. The only bubbles I saw were when I was filling the radiator after the WP and Thermostat replacements as the engine was running. The heater core is not hooked up and hasn't been since Wildfire has been mine. Coolant does come out of the overflow tube.  ???
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Becky...
Before I break out in song...Tiny bubbles.. ;)
  It's imperative that you purge all the air out of the system before you assume the worst. If you have one hooked up this means checking the heater core for leaks (make sure you have no antifreeze in the floor on passenger side. Then it takes practice and patience to slowly fill the system while letting the air out from the highest hose in the system.
If you still get the bubbles/gurgling, then it's time to really get serious about checking that head gasket integrity. You had mentioned in your past posts on this thread that your mechanic friend had ruled out the head gasket. I hope he's right, but be prepared to consider what is likely the worst case scenario.

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

r4pinto

Could be a blown head gasket. One of the ways you can tell is have the radiator cap off and start the car. If there are bubbles in the radiator there is a good chance you have a blown head gasket. The bubbles would indicate combustion gasses are getting past the head gasket, into the water jackets. It's also a good idea to pull the dipstick & look for milky oil.. You might also want to do a compression test on her.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

blupinto

...So the project continues...

Question: What does it mean when I hear boiling noises from the radiator- a radiator that was flushed and the 50/50 put in and a new thermostat because the boiling sound was present before these were replaced? Is it time for a new radiator? Wildfire is afraid of a blown head gasket. So's her mom.  :rolleye:
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

Well, you'll see it up close and personal after you get here.  :sleep: ;) :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Quote from: blupinto on April 03, 2009, 01:59:55 PM
I don't recall any yellow wires in my collection! lol.

Interesting. Well my car (let's remember it's a 1978) has a plug with 2 female 'bullet' connectors. one connector goes to two blue/red wires and the other goes to a yellow/black wire. The blue/red has voltage when the lights are on, the yellow/black has voltage with the key on. I had a 74 wagon in 95/96 and a 75 hatch in 98/99. I put radios in both, but honestly, I can't remember what I had for breakfast. :lost:

I'm gonna go back and look at your pic again.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

I don't recall any yellow wires in my collection! lol.
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Back to the radio wires. There are two blue/red wires tied to one terminal in my car (saw it today) These are for the dash light for the radio. Then there is a yellow/black wire. That's power to the radio. I grounded the black on the radio to the dash and hooked the red one from the radio to the yellow/black in the dash and moved on.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Pintosopher

Becky ,
The mind reels when I postulate (peculiarly) about the PM's that must fly between you & Kim :amazed:

Sugar cubes might work better, but I'm a bit Glycemic for a Horsey!

My Oats Bucket is here, dang! where's my clover pile?  ;D :o ;)

Pintosopher , a bit lame, so don't shoot me yet!
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

Well, maybe if I wag my carrot-like finger in front of a particular (and peculiar) pintosopher horsey maybe he will follow it south to Buena Park. (Sorry. I had to try one more time!) ;D :laugh: :lol: ;) :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Becky ,
Careful , A wagging finger is easily mistaken for a Carrot by many a horsey :lol:

Ohh Wilbur,

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

(wags her finger) I told you not to break into song dammit!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

 Tiny Bubbles , oh many are thee..

Many bubbles, they're everywhere I See,

Tiny bubbles, they tell me things to do..

  Tiny bubbles compelling me to Troubles,

  They're Popping now in my ears, a sound I've come to rue :surprised: :o ???

  Effervescently Distracted,

Pintosopher

Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

blupinto

Well, the experiment with the suncatcher paint didn't work, but not for the reasons I thought would doom it to failure. I applied the paint yesterday evening and there were no streaks, no bubbles, and the paint didn't all settle to the bottom of the painted area as I thought it would. This morning I went to look at my handiwork in the light of day and the paint had cracked and flaked off!  >:(

           Now I'll try the Chuck/Kim and Co. method (nail polish) though in prior experience painting my nails in the sun the color will form tiny bubbles (ok no breaking into song here! lol.) so that's where I stand now. 
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

No need to hurry Karma. She's fast enough as it is!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Quote from: blupinto on March 29, 2009, 09:30:29 PM
;D  Sorry. I forgot you have other critters. My hoodlums (the canine persuasion) get along with everybody. The cats will probably hide.

    I'll leave it up to you where you want to sleep. The offer still stands or I'll hunt up an inflatable bed. We'll figure out something... I'm just glad you're coming out here! Now if we can persuade a few more Pinto folks...  ;D 


Becky,
Must not Hurry Karma, The winds of fate are stirring.. we know who you are :surprised: :amazed: :hypno: :fastcar:

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

discolives78

Quote from: pintogirl on March 29, 2009, 10:24:17 PM
I'm not planning on going into the Amusment part of the park, so I only paid the reg. fee of 30 dollars.

I get virtigo from watching the microwave, so I'll probably hang out with the cars...

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintogirl

I'm not planning on going into the Amusment part of the park, so I only paid the reg. fee of 30 dollars.
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

I understand the entry fee includes us. I think the other tickets are for those who want to visit the theme park itself.
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

I printed the entry form! Question: Do I have to buy a $30 ticket on top of the $30 for the car? or does the registration fee include my admission?

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

 ;D  Sorry. I forgot you have other critters. My hoodlums (the canine persuasion) get along with everybody. The cats will probably hide.

    I'll leave it up to you where you want to sleep. The offer still stands or I'll hunt up an inflatable bed. We'll figure out something... I'm just glad you're coming out here! Now if we can persuade a few more Pinto folks...  ;D 
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Quote from: blupinto on March 29, 2009, 09:16:08 PM
YAY!!! CHUCK'S COMING OUT HERE!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Chuck, I am so glad you're coming out to the Knott's thing I might just offer you my room and I'll take the couch. Technically I have two bedrooms but one is the Cat Room/Library so there's no bed in there. If you're not allergic to the felines, and Sue won't make hors douerves (?) out of them you're both welcome here. Well, yes, Buttercup too!  ;)

Sue cohabitates with 3 cats, and visits grandma's house, where there are 4 more. He's pretty mild-mannered (now)

I'm well practiced at sofa-surfing, no need to put yourself out!

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

YAY!!! CHUCK'S COMING OUT HERE!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Chuck, I am so glad you're coming out to the Knott's thing I might just offer you my room and I'll take the couch. Technically I have two bedrooms but one is the Cat Room/Library so there's no bed in there. If you're not allergic to the felines, and Sue won't make hors douerves (?) out of them you're both welcome here. Well, yes, Buttercup too!  ;)
One can never have too many Pintos!

Fred Morgan

I have extra large beds but the dog wont work because I will have my dog with me and she does not get along with any animal.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/