Mini Classifieds

Want seals for Pinto wagon "flip out" windows
Date: 08/08/2017 01:44 pm
1973 Pinto Runabout

Date: 08/17/2022 06:27 pm
Drip rail chrome
Date: 01/14/2017 09:18 am
Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
Date: 12/09/2018 11:35 pm
1978 Squire wagon 6 Cly
Date: 02/16/2020 05:42 pm
Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
Date: 12/09/2018 11:35 pm
Parting out 77 Bobcat Hatch
Date: 11/06/2017 04:16 pm
1974 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon

Date: 05/30/2020 01:51 pm
99' 2.5l lima cylinder head

Date: 01/13/2017 01:56 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 525
  • Total: 525
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Borg Warner T-5 speed install

Started by Pintony, October 18, 2005, 08:06:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

65ShelbyClone

"Effective" gearing is something I touched on in my build thread in the turbo forum.

With 23.9" tires and 3.55 gears, my car has gearing equivalent to 3.94 gears in the Thunderbird my trans came from. 3.94 is pretty steep for that driveline. I can take off in second gear like it's first. To functionally match the gearing that the donor Thunderbird had, I would only need a 3.12 rear end ratio.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Jerry merrill

I have a 2.3 in my 71 with the t-5 and 355 gears and the 5 speed works great. I only have a ranger header and stock roller cam. Some times I run in 5th in town over 45 mph. Yes if you come to a steep hill you will have to downshift but it works great. Might be different if you have less rear gear than 355

Wittsend

Hi Jerry,
  Remember that my friend is building racing engines. A stock engine leaves a lot on the table.  So, he is basically stating after everything else has been exhausted you hit a ceiling of the torque you get out of a specific displacement.  This is also related to currently available equipment and build concepts at any given point in time. Obviously future development has the potential for increase.

Since HP is factored around torque and RPM to get the HP number higher (at the torque ceiling) the torque has to be shifted to the higher RPM.

He is not some "want to be" engine builder. He did development work for Shelby, built the engine for a record holding Bonneville car and has been in magazine engine building shoot outs.  http://www.mitechengines.com/history.htm

My main point to 1oldtimer is that his search for total HP to overcome the 2.0 deficiency with a T-5 was not the solution.  The solution was to get maximum torque (or at least an acceptable amount) in the "driving" range that the T-5 would typically be used in.  My apology if I caused any confusion.

I also don't mean to contest Pintony who has obviously tried the T-5 with a 2.0. But, in his case we do not know the tire size, the rear ratio, the final ratio in 5th gear (could be anywhere from .78 to .85).  If (and I do mean IF because we don't know) he had 15"-16" tires, 3.00 rear gears, the .78 trans and a motor modified that had the torque curve moved higher that might account for the issues. On the other hand if he had 13" tires, 3.55 gears, .85 trans and a basically stock motor  (decent torque in the driving range) - and then the car still couldn't handle the overdrive then for sure I would not advise the T-5 either.

oldkayaker

Wittsend, I do not understand it but the torque can be changed without changing bore or stroke.  The 71 2000cc had 120 ft-lbs while the 72 2000cc had 103 ft-lbs.   The compression was lowered from the 71's 9:1(8.6:1 per Ford manual) to 8.2:1 in 72.   Per the Ford manuals, the cams have the same specs but I suspect some tuning changes were made too.  Click on the "detailed specs" link in the links below to see the compression ratio numbers.
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ford_usa/pinto/pinto_2-door_sedan/1971.html
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ford_usa/pinto/pinto_2-door_sedan/1972.html

1oldtimer, as far increasing the NA output of the 2000cc, there are some old magazine build articles linked on the PCCA page here.  Go to "Community" at top and then to "Extended Community".    The article links will be on the lower left side.  For more complete builds, David Vizard wrote a good book on the 2000cc engine, see link below.  For some reason clicking on the link below does not work but copying and pasting the entire link seems to work.
http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=&title=&lang=en&isbn=0-89586-365-0&new_used=*&destination=us&currency=USD&mode=basic&st=sr&ac=qr
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Wittsend

The issue isn't horsepower, it's torque.  You need enough of it in a "driving" RPM range (Idle to about 3,000 RPM) for everyday general driving. Horsepower is just a result of the torque at a given RPM.

You can build a 200 HP 2.0 but it will likely have to wind it up towards 8,000 RPM to get those numbers. And if you did that the torque in the "driving" RPM's would be worse than stock.  I have a friend who builds race engines and he has stated that, "You can only get so much torque out of a given bore/stroke combination. The only way to increase HP is to increase the RPM."  And note that when you shift the torque upwards you lose it on the lower end.

I only briefly had a 2.0 / Auto. I installed 225-60-16" tire which would have been similar to running with an overdrive trans ratio. The car was "pedestrian" to start with 13" tire and the 16" put it in the "walker" catagory.

You could effectively run the 5 speed with the right tire/rearend ratios. And you might actually set it up for a very mild overdrive (compared to what you have now). BUT, 1st  gear would probably be negated as it would hit "granny" status.

I also notice that the '87 Mustang T-5 was listed as a .85 (vs the .78-.81 listed for other years).  Frankly though it is a mote point without considering the trans ratios, the rear ratio and the tire circumference.

Run your current trans, rearend and tires through a calculator.  See what the RPM @ driving speeds are.  Then do the same with the desired components. Observe the RPM drop. If it is minor then the 5 speed will not offer much advantage. If it is a lot you likely lack the torque to pull the load.

In any case you would need to be building the 2.0 for torque in the stated idle to 3,000 RPM range. I doubt any power increase equipment available is slanted in that direction.  In fact the stock engine is likely doing that in its natural state now.

1oldtimer

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:12:57 PM
I called Pintony today & found out the clutch disc is for a non-turbo '87 Mustang with a 2.3L engine.

He also said that anyone thinking of putting a T-5 behind a bone stock 2.0L was making a huge mistake. The stock engine won't pull 5th gear. I was planning to use it behind my built 2.0 but even at 115-120 HP its not gonna pull hard in 5th. I'm just warning anyone before they waste the time, effort & money trying to run it behind a 70 HP stocker.

What mods have you done to get to the 115-120hp. I'm trying to get an idea of what will a target hp, is 150-175 or even 200 way out of line for a N/A street driven car. I see the GM 3.0 (181 boat motor, derived from the 153 Nova motor) getting 140hp out of the box.......and the 153 getting 120 hp.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

Henrius

Quote from: Pintony on October 18, 2005, 08:06:36 PM
Hello Group,
I got my NEW Borg warner T-5 tonight. I will be showing how I rebuild and install this tranny in the coming weeks. I have hurt my old T-5 and will be replacing it with this newly aquired unit.
This is the "World Class" T-5
My install will be behind a 2.0 Turbo BUT should help othersW 2.3 in their quest for overdrive tranny.
From Pintony

I am drooling. The one thing I would like for my hopped-up 2.0L is a 5 speed to get a higher top gear and bring the engine RPM on the highway. But how much modification does it take?

1. Does the driveshaft have to be shortened?
2. Does the gearshift position need to be changed?
3. How do you adapt to the back of the 2.0 engine.

I know little to nothing about tranny interchanges. Where can I get info?

Thanks!
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

amc49

Absolutely, that's why God created the shifter.....................

Jerry merrill

I have a 71 with a mildly modified 2.3 and t-5 with 3.55 rear gears and fairly tall tires on 15 inch rims and the overdrive works pretty good even in town at speeds above 45. Yes if I am going slow and climb a hill I have to downshift but if your car has 3.40 and higher gears it should work fine, I would never go back to a 4 speed.

oldkayaker

If you run into a lugging situation making 5th gear unusable, a recent thread on TurboFord.org suggests that the T5 5th gears can be mixed and matched to get a desired ratio.  In addition to engine out put and 5th gear ratio, I believe lugging also depends on tire size, rear gear ratio, car weight, aero drag, etc.

http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=057441;p=0

http://www.aicmctexas.com/main/showthread.php?826-Fifth-Gear-upgrades-for-Ford-T5-s&s=7076cf061ebbd37a5b6fdbcc1abe47ae

Both my cable and hydraulic bells have the tilt.  Maybe it is to get the shifter closer to the driver, don't know.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

amc49

'He also said that anyone thinking of putting a T-5 behind a bone stock 2.0L was making a huge mistake. The stock engine won't pull 5th gear. I was planning to use it behind my built 2.0 but even at 115-120 HP its not gonna pull hard in 5th. I'm just warning anyone before they waste the time, effort & money trying to run it behind a 70 HP stocker.'

I would not doubt that one little bit. The zetec engines that Ford used around '95-'05 are rated around 130 HP and once they get well used to let power drop off to around 100 HP or lower an ATX PCM will routinely kick them into 4th at the slightest hint of too much load. The engine otherwise is lugging and not enough power to pull the gear and the PCM has that designed into the software. It can tell by how far you are into throttle (TPS output) to decide the issue one way or the other. Once the engines cross around 150K miles they routinely drop into 4th and stay there at any uphill incline at all. It can get kinda crazy in hilly country and using cruise, lots of upshift/downshift going on there.

Reeves1


1oldtimer

I wanted to post a small update. I was having some other aluminum stuff welded so I added the T5 bell to the pile. Fits good, used the '87 clutch set-up, but noticed the that the 2.3 mustang setup isn't level and has the trans at a slight twist to the drivers side.



'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

oldkayaker

Just for reference, below is the link to the nice build thread where those 2.0 to T5 photos are shown.
http://www.fordpinto.com/your-project/73-pangra-project/
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Pinto5.0

Apparently he tapped the upper 2 holes in the 2.3 bell & threaded in some all thread. Notching the sides of the bell to use the lower bolt holes is a 10 minute job with a carbide cutter. I like this method because it can be done at home in an afternoon.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

1oldtimer

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on July 14, 2013, 05:39:03 PM
I like this idea myself. Actually quite simple to do. I trust Pintony on 2.0 advice so be prepared to run around in 4th gear until you have the power to use 5th. I'm going to use the stock 4 speed & only swap to the T-5 if my engine can run the 4 speed to it's rev limit with ease. If I can't go over 4K RPM in 4th at half throttle there's no point adding a gear.





I haven't held the bells together yet.......I didn't think the holes where that close to the 2.3 bell. I see I don't need to cut the two bells apart, that's good. I was kinda planning on using it as a 4spd if all else failed, I just wanted to decide on a trans before I start making a crossmember and modifying the frame.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

Pinto5.0

I like this idea myself. Actually quite simple to do. I trust Pintony on 2.0 advice so be prepared to run around in 4th gear until you have the power to use 5th. I'm going to use the stock 4 speed & only swap to the T-5 if my engine can run the 4 speed to it's rev limit with ease. If I can't go over 4K RPM in 4th at half throttle there's no point adding a gear.



'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

1oldtimer

It's stock right now, but before it goes back in it's going to get some head mods and a cam (plus the dual carbs and header).  Now the question is do I modify the 2.3 bell (looks like I can cut out the upper bolt section on the 2.0 bell and weld it into the 2.3 bell) or modify the tailshaft/shifter on the 4spd. either way there's cutting and welding of aluminum, but with the T5 I have a chance of using 5th and maybe a turbo in the future  ;D.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 1oldtimer on July 14, 2013, 03:16:20 AM
Ok, found some parts after 3 junkyard visits. A 1988 Mustang 2.3 T5 with bell (I think I need to use the 2.0 motor plate?), S10 tail housing and shift rod.

Your 2.0 isn't stock is it? And yeah, I'd run the 2.0 block plate.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

1oldtimer

Ok, found some parts after 3 junkyard visits. A 1988 Mustang 2.3 T5 with bell (I think I need to use the 2.0 motor plate?), S10 tail housing and shift rod.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

1oldtimer

Thanks guys, I guess I'll look for both and see which shows up first. I'm going to use old pedals so it will be linkage for the clutch. I was already looking at shortening the shift tube/shaft and moving the housing forward so the shifter will be in a usable area. I've seen the AK Miller set-ups come up for sale once and awhile, right now I just have the edelbrock dual carbs and a header on it.........I drove it home in stock form with a C4 so some more power was needed.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 1oldtimer on July 04, 2013, 11:43:03 AM
What bellhousing was Pintony talking about ?. I have a '72 2.0 with a 4spd now, looking into the future for a 5 speed and need to start collecting parts. The motor/trans are in a Model A with 4.11 gears and I want to stay away from a hyd clutch.

The 4 banger Fox Mustangs have the bell you are looking for. They are all cable operated.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

71HANTO

Quote from: 1oldtimer on July 04, 2013, 11:43:03 AM
What bellhousing was Pintony talking about ?. I have a '72 2.0 with a 4spd now, looking into the future for a 5 speed and need to start collecting parts. The motor/trans are in a Model A with 4.11 gears and I want to stay away from a hyd clutch.
I believe Pintony is referring to a non-hydraulic 2.3 bell housing. They can be bolted to a 2.0L using 4 of the 6 bolt holes using step down dowels (in two of the holes for proper alignment). My son has been using one for years behind a 2.0 turbo with no issues. The T-5 trans is a common upgrade if you want a 5 speed. If you are using 4.11s and can use a model A old school (long) stick shift then you should be good. The T-5 is about 1.5 inches forward in the shift tunnel over the Pinto 4-speed (and the T-9 5 speed). I know you're are looking for a T-9 but they are really hard to find in any condition and really expensive to rebuild. The input shaft needs to be modified (it's too long) for a 2.0L. I have extensive mods and big $$$ in mine. The Pinto I'm currently building has the T-5. It's a 2.0L with an A.K. Miller turbo and 3.18 gears (may go with 3.40s). The T-5s are cheap, plentiful, and stronger than the T-9s. I have about $900 in my race mod T-9 and $70 in my Pick-Your-Parts T-5/with bell that does not need a rebuild.

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

OhSix9

don't even bother with the d4 and d9 bellhousings as a total waste of time, effort as well as money. The cable actuated bellcrank housings are cheap and so plentiful you can't chuck a rock at a wrecking yard and not hit one.. relocating the clutch cable is a matter of a two inch long piece of flatbar with 2 holes drilled in it. bolt it to the original  cable mounting hole and raise the cable mounting point an inch. problem solved.
Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

1oldtimer

What bellhousing was Pintony talking about ?. I have a '72 2.0 with a 4spd now, looking into the future for a 5 speed and need to start collecting parts. The motor/trans are in a Model A with 4.11 gears and I want to stay away from a hyd clutch.
'72 2.0 in a '28 Ford.

Pinto5.0

I called Pintony today & found out the clutch disc is for a non-turbo '87 Mustang with a 2.3L engine.

He also said that anyone thinking of putting a T-5 behind a bone stock 2.0L was making a huge mistake. The stock engine won't pull 5th gear. I was planning to use it behind my built 2.0 but even at 115-120 HP its not gonna pull hard in 5th. I'm just warning anyone before they waste the time, effort & money trying to run it behind a 70 HP stocker.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Pinturbo75

heres pauls contact info...
Send me a PM or an e-mail to turboford@charter.net or call me at 860-642-4429

Thanks,
Paul
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Pinto5.0

I'm going to see what my machinist wants to turn me a set or 2 of dowels. I'm also going to look into welding some extensions on one of my bellhousings to bolt it to the 2.0L. I think this is the way to go.

Of course none of this matters if I can't source the 10 spline disc for the clutch.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

off this topic, kinda  that website is a pain in tha @ss to become a member on!! i have tried atleast 5 times with some type of issue every time!!!

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

oldkayaker

Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida