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Bumper, grill and fender wanted
Date: 12/24/2016 04:13 pm
74 & Up Parts
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Looking for Passenger side Inner Fender Apron
Date: 10/28/2018 08:45 am
72 pinto drag car

Date: 06/22/2017 07:19 am
79 Wagon with many extras
Date: 07/08/2020 04:18 pm
parts needed
Date: 02/20/2017 07:58 am
72 pinto drag car

Date: 07/08/2017 08:53 pm
Interior Parts
Date: 08/07/2017 03:59 pm
1979 Pinto 3-door Runabout *PRICE REDUCED*

Date: 08/01/2023 06:53 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Hot Pants Re-Pops - Any Interest?

Started by Cookieboy, July 11, 2008, 11:24:45 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

dmsteen

any price yet for a 79 wagon?  dave

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: apintonut on July 23, 2008, 05:08:04 PM
if its needed i will get it to map351

Hey apintonut, I have it covered. I have 2 kits that have never been on cars and will be sending him the pieces he needs. Thanks for the offer  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

apintonut

i do have a hot pants kit and dont like them so i was going to leave it on the car when i take it to the track but if its needed i will get it to map351
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

Cookieboystoys

YIPPY!!!!! Mike (Map351) has asked for the side skirts!!!!

It's gonna happen folks! Hot Pants coming soon!

He has the rear spoilers ready, will make rear spats (one for the wagons too) and when the side skirts are done that will be most of the body kit!

because the front spoiler will only fit the 71-73 cars he is "thinking" about making a "generic" front spoiler for the 74 and up cars. And he said it should be no problem making the front spoiler for the 71-73's

Yahoo!!!
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

77turbopinto

Quote from: map351 on July 22, 2008, 03:13:31 PM
I have Albertos front spoiler for the later cars....

Would that be for the 79/80 cars?

The 79/80 spoilers are significantly different and will not fit the 77/78, or the 74-76 cars. It seems that each group would need its own spoiler.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

map351

I have Albertos front spoiler for the later cars, but it needs a ton of work before I could make a mold from it.
If I had the time I would make a front Valance/spoiler that would fit all the years with interchangeable ends to cover the different fenders & bumpers.

Mike
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

77turbopinto

I have a spare 77/78 C/W front spoiler that Mike can use to make a mold if he wants.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: map351 on July 22, 2008, 02:29:54 PM
Price $550.00 per kit + shipping.

OK Mike... $550 +s&h for a complete kit (front and rear spoiler, side skirts and rear spat) to fit 71-73 cars only...

since the front spoiler will not fit the 74 and up cars how about a price without the front spoiler for hatchbacks and sedans 74 and newer?

and then a price for wagons with only the side skirts and rear spat only? since they also can't use front and rear spoilers...

sorry to complicate it a bit but... others will want to know and I would get...

1 kit for a wagon (my 77 cruising wagon) and 1 or 2 for hatchbacks (78 and 80) for myself...

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

map351

Now there's some interest in the Hot Pants kit & the wagon spats I crunched some numbers.  Since I have the rear spoiler mold and working on the wagon spats I would need the side skirts and front spoiler to make the molds for a complete kit. I would make the kit for a wagon & Cp But I need 5 (Five) people to commit before I'll start the rest of the molds. Price $550.00 per kit + shipping. This will be hand laid glass not plastic so it's very repairable not like the OEM plastic.  It's a lot of work time consuming & expensive to do this, the price of materials goes up every week. Also I need a 25% of pre payment if you back out you loose your 25%.


Mike
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: dholvrsn on July 22, 2008, 01:02:10 PM
What is the projected price and will this fit a '79 wagon?

a 79 wagon would be able to use the body kit between the wheels on the side and a custom rear spat (behind the rear tires) would have to be custom made because of length required for wagons only.

wagons would not use the rear spoiler and the front spoiler will only fit the 71 thru 73 cars.

no projected cost as there is no one willing to make them at this time. Mike sells the rear spoiler (hatchbacks and trunk modles only) on Ebay, last one he sold went for around $150.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

dholvrsn

What is the projected price and will this fit a '79 wagon?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

77Coryn

I am very interested in the hot pants kit....I bought a 77 sedan last summer and I've been doing quite a bit of work to it. I'd love to get my hands on a body kit for it...Let me know when they are ready.

skunky56

Yes sur ee sign me up for one complete kit Thanks
77 Starsky/Hutch 2.3 Turbo A4OD Sunroof
78 Wagon V6 C3

popbumper

Thanks Cookieboy...er, no thanks  :(, no, seriously, I appreciate you telling me the differences. If there was a way to do something for the wagon, it would be cool....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: map351 on July 11, 2008, 02:30:02 PM
Brian you do know this is like herding cats!
I splashed a R&L spat to make the wagon plugs.

Mike

I know Mike but... I keep getting asked here and personal messages/email to sell mine and the interest is there. Problem is... if the parts are not available when people have money and are willing to buy... they move on to other ideas, drop it or change their mind... I know you like to have the item you make sold before you will start making them and understand that.. I really do...

But... there are a lot of people out there (I very strongly suspect) that will buy these if they have a fair price on the item and it's available "now." I know this would require you to make quite a few sets (for better price) and take a lot! of your time. I also know the sets will not sell quickly and will take some time... you have to think of this as an investment that will pay off in the long run...

However if you would rather not ever do this or consider making them... let us know. You are the only one I have considered letting you use the origional pieces because I trust you with them and the quality of your work. But, if you don't ever want to consider making the rest of the kit just say so and I won't ask or suggest it again.

and Chris.... wagon (74 and up) wouldn't be able to use the front spoiler, no rear spoiler for wagon either,  and the rear spats (behind the rear wheel) has to be custom made. The flairs (between the tires and under the door) is the same.

so basicly wagons w/a custom rear spat will only be using the wheel flairs...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

ADaughen

Quote from: Reed on July 11, 2008, 03:31:19 PM
I might be interested, if the cost wasn't too high.


Depending on what it is made from... it shouldn't be too bad.  The one for my Mazda3 (front lip, side skirts, and rear flares) runs ~$350-400, unpainted.

So, no front lip with this one?  Are they making a CW front lip?  I need a new one for my wagon... 
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

Reed

I might be interested, if the cost wasn't too high.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Smeed

Im in too hot pants =  :surprised:

'73 runabout

popbumper

Sign me up - it would look GREAT on my wagon - of course I'm sure a wagon kit would be different....thanks for clarifying.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

ADaughen

Quote from: Cookieboy on July 11, 2008, 02:10:32 PM
body kit - front spoilers, wheel flairs and a rear spoiler


Wow, that looks good.

I'd love to see how it would look on a CW...

What kind of price are we looking at?
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

map351

Brian you do know this is like herding cats!
I splashed a R&L spat to make the wagon plugs.

Mike
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

Cookieboystoys

body kit - front spoilers, wheel flairs and a rear spoiler
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

popbumper

Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

ADaughen

Do you have photos of what you're talking about...  I think Go-go girls when I hear hot pants.  Not car parts.   ???
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: rear ended on July 10, 2008, 12:53:59 PM
Deffinitely the hot pants.  I am sure these would sell if we could get the aftermarket going.  Een if every pinto had hot pants, I do not think it would get old.  If you cannot get them made, let me know i WILL LOOK INTO IT.

Quote from: Cookieboy on July 11, 2008, 10:55:38 AM
well... Map351 has made the rear spoiler and can make/sell more. He had the rear spats (side-behind the rear tire) and made a mold for them. All he needs now is the side pieces (between tires and under door) and people willing to pay and I'm sure we can convince him to complete all but the front spoiler... these pieces (except the front spoiler) will fit all sedans and hatchbacks, the wagons will need a custom rear spat but I think there was enough interest in them back when we did the "poll" so that may be a real possibility too..

The front spoiler will be hard to duplicate (complicated) and only fits the 71-73 cars (because of the bigger front bumpers 74 and up) so I would guess that piece will be last...

I am more than willing to provide anything Map351 needs to duplicate this kit, all he needs is time and willing buyers... I want to see them made as I really don't want to use the 2 sets I have on any future projects (unless the right/original one comes along) and will buy 1 or 2 myself  ;D

Speak up here if interested in getting Map351 motivated into finishing the Hot Pants Re-pop.... he needs to know if his hard work to do this will be worth it... speak up and let him know what pieces will be in demand and please only reply if you will actually buy the item once it's available... It will take some time for him to make available and there will be a reasonable price to pay for these items.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!