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74 Driver side Wagon Fender, 74 driver side Door, Nice Wheels

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Pinto reproduction parts - let's poll!!

Started by popbumper, February 03, 2008, 05:15:19 PM

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FCANON

As for a list of suppliers we are working on this already...thanks for the suggestion....

FrankBoss

www.PintoWorks.com
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

pintopimp

I read many posts here and it seems that the best thing to do to start off  is to have a link on this site of items that are already reproduced.  If were all going to help each other out here then let's truly do so.  For example, I know there are at least few guys already registered as members on this site that make the rounds and speak with many other Pinto enthusiasts.  It would be a good idea if those individuals contacted the other knowledged Pintologists and created a list of parts already reproduced and where/who to buy them from. There should be a link on this site that you could click on and get a full list from A to Z of what it is, who has it, and where to get it. This way there is no confusion.  My reason for saying all of this is while reading many of the threads from other members I noticed some were suggesting some items that are already available.  I know most of us aren't rich still let's not suggest having items reproduced that already are just because you don't like the price of the item already available.  Let's buy from the guys that went through the effort to properly remake these items. 

I noticed allot of talk about replacing rusty panels etc.  I guarantee you it will be cheaper to pull a clean panel off a junk yard car then it would be to have a new one made from scratch unless the panel were to be reproduced in "Mustang"  or "Bug" numbers which realistically may not happen. It would be cool if it did though.  If clean/rust free panels are a problem, cars do still surface at the wrecking yards out here on the West Coast from time to time.  Maybe it would be nice if there was a link strictly for "items needed as well" so guys out here on the West Coast can help the guys out on the east coast in need of rust free panels,etc.  So let's think about this a little more.  Right now there is a message board to post parts needed/available, etc. and that's okay but I'm suggesting a link strictly devoted to parts already available and another for items wanted.  This way you can just go down the list and find what you need(if it's available) and who's got it.  Until then we wont know exactly what needs to be reproduced. In short we need a  separate parts available link and a parts wanted link as well.   


Take care all!!!
1973 Yellow Wagon
1972 Brown Wagon
1972 Red Runabout
1979 Runabout
1972 White Wagon
1971 Red Runabout
1971 Sedan
1974 Runabout
1972 Blue Runabout
1972 Red Wagon
1973 Chesnut Squire
1973 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Turbo Wagon

Known as "the flipper"
Co-Owner of B&B's Used Pintos ;)

71hotrodpinto

Hey all, just my 2c on what id like to see and what i need.
Yes id have to save for them so i couldnt do a quicky buy..

Rear trunk model Window Seal. $200

Rear quarter window Non-popout seals. $100 each

1971 style "Pinto" emblems The red white and blue ones....$30 each :smile: ( nos ones are getting out of touch when you can find them...

Seat belt kit that FITS!! the Universal kits that ive seen ( and have ) dont fit well. The stock mounts on the catch part are waay too long.

Really thats all i can think of for now...

Lets hope that we can get something rolling....


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

pintopaul2003

Am i the only one who wants
1. Doors     Doors      Doors  Doors
2. doors      doors      doors   doors
3. anything but doors
4. hot pants kit also to include the 3 pc rear air deflector
    Paul    pintopaul@verizon.net
we have a new addition to the pinto family
Hunter Daniel born nov 21 2006  5lbs 12.2 oz                     pintopaul@verizon.net

D.R.Ball

Wagon rear hatch locks.....You can not find them any more...It looks like a standard door lock with a stamped metal J shape...It is not like a trunk or hatch back model.....

pintoman

Even though I do not need them,early style bumpers are needed.From past post they seem they are needed.Good luck with the parts.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

75bobcatv6

Aftermarket AC is a must for me, Interior Kick panels? repro seat fabrics maybe.

Norman Bagi

Floor pans are a great idea   :lol:
Aftermarket air conditioning would be great.  Comp. evap, condens. hoses, etc and to fit to current dash set up would be awesome.   :devil:
Aftermarket Gas tanks with bladder systems.  I had to repair a leaking tank and it would have been nice to have one with new sending unit, etc.   :2fast4u:


FCANON

OK guys we need to get back on topic here in this thread. Please respond to the original post only.

FrankBoss

www.PintoWorks.com
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

bobscat

Would have to once again pop in and agree on the floor pans, patch panels, rear quarters, perhaps lower door skins.  Would really like to see this go somewhere, and not just get lost, here seems to be a really good opportunity for us to get the stuff we've always wanted.  Heck, if people have access to these parts, you might find more of them getting fixed than sent to the scrapper.  Just a thought.

Pintony

Quote from: V8pinto_306_n2o on February 05, 2008, 01:30:58 PM
My #1 part request would be hatch weatherstripping for the hatchback not the trunk model.

I think you're probably talking about metal parts but I don't need any of those right now (crossing fingers).

I got a PM on here about an ebayer selling the truck weatherstripping but the ad clearly says "not for hatchback".  I sent the seller a message a while back asking if they had hatchback weatherstripping but no response.

I found the 93 Fox chassis mustang door rubber will work on the hatch but it is about 6" too short. 

Hello V8pinto_306_n2o,
The problem is that the early Pinto hatch gasket is different than the later gasket.
What year Pinto are you working on???
From Pintony


Cookieboystoys

Quote from: V8pinto_306_n2o on February 05, 2008, 01:30:58 PM
My #1 part request would be hatch weatherstripping for the hatchback not the trunk model.

I got a PM on here about an ebayer selling the truck weatherstripping but the ad clearly says "not for hatchback".  I sent the seller a message a while back asking if they had hatchback weatherstripping but no response.

Ebay seller Bobby Ward (bobbyward) has the Trunk and Hatchback seal - You have to contact him for the hatchback seal and I have bought it from him before. I have also recommend him to others and so far heard nothing but good things....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/71-72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80-FORD-PINTO-TRUNK-SEAL_W0QQitemZ190194887416QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190194887416
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

V8pinto_306_n2o

My #1 part request would be hatch weatherstripping for the hatchback not the trunk model.

I think you're probably talking about metal parts but I don't need any of those right now (crossing fingers).

I got a PM on here about an ebayer selling the truck weatherstripping but the ad clearly says "not for hatchback".  I sent the seller a message a while back asking if they had hatchback weatherstripping but no response.

I found the 93 Fox chassis mustang door rubber will work on the hatch but it is about 6" too short. 

JOEXR793

Quote from: popbumper on February 03, 2008, 05:15:19 PM
Hi again:

  A few days back I mentioned I had found a manufacturer for Pinto reproduction parts, but said "metal" only. OK, let's bust this open even further, and say "repro parts in general"...not just metal.

  The question is this - if YOU could have a "wish list" of up to ten possible Pinto reproduction parts, what would they be, first to last? Floor pans? Panels? Hoods? Custom parts? Door rubber? Interior parts? Trim pieces? Bumpers?

  NAME them! I am trying to spearhead this effort, this is a REAL question, the Pinto folks need to step forward and get this stuff made. Details will follow as long as the inputs come forward. I have heard plenty of the arguments about pricing/demand, etc., and that's not my concern at this point. Speak up and be heard.

  This is a golden opportunity. Other car collector groups have access to vast numbers of repro parts. As the Pinto fan base continues to increase (and it is), doesn't it make sense that we should also have access to parts to allow us to restore these fine cars? Waiting on your lists.......please......

Chris

PS - My list?
1) Floor pans
2) Dash pads
3) Quarter patch panels
4) Grilles
5) Door sills
6) Interior mouldings (these seem to always be beat)
7) Chromed plastics
..etc......
4)

   Hello Every one,,

    My name Is Joe,,  I hope we can help all of you get the parts you need into production,,  Please,,  Lets all get together and come up with the 10 most needed parts,, number 1 on the list being the most important,, My suggestion would be to start at frame and or at the front of the Car,,,  So if we can start a thread to find out what every one thinks the top parts are,,,That would be good,,
   I hope to get to know most of you either on here or in person at some of the Club Meets,,,


                                                  Thank You

                                                          Joe
JOEXR793

FlyerPinto

Floor pans and patch panels are the toughest for me. It seems any car that is out there has a need for them unless it was Ziebarted, moved to Arizona and parked indoors for thirty odd years. I don't know how to weld as of yet, but I will be learning so I can do the floors myself if I must. A schematic of a floor pan or dimensions would be helpful, but my cars are missing them so I'm unable to even approximate where they should be and thus, their size. If anyone has any info, I'd love to have it.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

popbumper

Glad you made it Joe, let's make this happen. I'm gonna say (and others, please jump in) that we should probably start with battery trays, then floor pans, then patch panels. Anyone?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

JOEXR793

   Hello Every one,, My Name is Joe,, I am working with many companies to bring Maverick and Comet parts to those who need them,,
   One person Found us on the Maverick/Comet Site and expressed interest in new parts for his Club and Members,,  We will do what ever we can to start getting hard to find parts into production and help out,, We will give the same 110% Towards helping all of you out as we are for the Maverick, Comunity..  Popbumper didn't ask for a part for him self,,, He asked for parts for every one in this Club,, So I hope to get to meet allot of you either on here or in person at some of the function,,
   How can we help,,,, We need a list of the top 10 parts needed for your cars, Number 1 on that list to be the most needed, to number 10 as the least important,, Not saying its not a needed part but we would like to get out the most crucial parts first and then work our way down to finishing parts,, Frame parts are always high on most lists,, due to saving some cars with front end damage then becomes possible.

                                                          Thank You

                                                                  Joe
JOEXR793

popbumper

Quote from: rkk on February 05, 2008, 08:26:13 AM
I know I posted before but I was thinking about it more.  I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but one way to increase volume is to partner with other groups.  For instance the Mustang II and Maverick clubs, and maybe even the Falcon club, since some of these parts are common.
Another option is to see about hotrod type parts since there are numerous swaps going on (my car being one of them).  Like V8 transpanlt kits and Turbo motor transplant kits.  Things like shifters, motor and transmission mounts, C4 adapter bellhousing, wiring harnesses, could be common with other cars, just to name a few.  Just an idea, but would like to hear your opinion.

Ray

Ray:

  The impetus to get this done was due to my visiting the Maverick forum at mmb.maverick.to, and finding out that alot of repo Maverick parts are being manufactured. Any Pinto parts made as a result of this "survey" would be manufactured in the same facility as the Maverick parts.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

rkk

I know I posted before but I was thinking about it more.  I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but one way to increase volume is to partner with other groups.  For instance the Mustang II and Maverick clubs, and maybe even the Falcon club, since some of these parts are common.
Another option is to see about hotrod type parts since there are numerous swaps going on (my car being one of them).  Like V8 transpanlt kits and Turbo motor transplant kits.  Things like shifters, motor and transmission mounts, C4 adapter bellhousing, wiring harnesses, could be common with other cars, just to name a few.  Just an idea, but would like to hear your opinion.

Ray
1976 TURBO PINTO
1969 AMC AMX not a pinto, but I like it, fast for not being a FORD (It's different just like a PINTO)

douglasskemp

Quote from: 1975 pinto on February 04, 2008, 12:00:09 PM
6. Sway bar end links (or at least the lower bushing...and if anyone knows where to find these, PLEASE let us know)

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?parttype=78&ptset=A&searchfor=Sway+Bar+Link+Kit

douglasskemp
Is this what you are looking for?

YES..EXACTLY!

Awesome!  Thanks a bunch!
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: V8pinto_306_n2o on February 04, 2008, 07:57:20 PM
My list:


Part                                             Willing to pay
1 - Door weatherstrip                   75/set
2 - Trunk hatch weatherstrip        50



Both items are available...

Ebay seller Bobby Ward (bobbyward) has the trunk seal

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/71-72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80-FORD-PINTO-TRUNK-SEAL_W0QQitemZ190194887416QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190194887416

and can also provide seals for the hatchback if you ask him. I bought my hatch gasket from him

The door weatherstrip is also available on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-1972-1973-1974-Ford-Pinto-door-seals-pair-NEW_W0QQitemZ220198199066QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220198199066

but I order mine from Autokrafters.com ( www.autokrafters.com )

http://www.autokrafters.com/v4/go.gnf?session=de36c6055033fbc773960d6c154ce80d&s=autokrafters&t=&d=products&keywords=&makeId=54&modelId=693&yearId=1973&&ACESSearch=1&product=31781

the trunk seal w/shipping is close but you will have to pay a little more for the door seals
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

V8pinto_306_n2o

My list:


Part                                             Willing to pay
1 - Door weatherstrip                   75/set
2 - Trunk hatch weatherstrip        50


77turbopinto

Quote from: popbumper on February 04, 2008, 11:51:53 AM
Hi Bill:

  I'm not here to raise any contention; I will leave it at that. I am trying to drive an effort, only time will tell if I am successful. Your opinions are worthwhile, as are everyone else's, and you have not been "accused" of anything. Please don't be defensive. I will not comment any further on your posts, so that there will be no chance of creating unwanted controversy.

Keep those ideas coming, folks, and thanks for your participation.

Chris

Please continue to reply to me, I can take it.......

I ONLY brought up what I have because of what I have SEEN others deal with and what I have gone trough.

Agree or not, most people will decide to buy an item based on it's price (it's relative value). If this fact is left out of this, there might be issues with the manufacturing of other parts down the road.

Connie and I searched for a LONG time to find the NOS/OEM cloth for her car. When we found it we bought all we could get. This did three things: One, it gave us the security that we would have what we needed. Two: We got a much better price per yard. + Three: It would allow us to make it easy for someone else looking to find it, and we could sell it for what we paid per yard to give them a good deal. Despite MANY DESPEATE emails and PMs from people BEGGING for this cloth, they all have disappeared when we told them the price was the price, or they made offers of pennies on the dollar. I don't take that kind of stuff personally, and I don't care if I ever sell one thread, but I will not give it away just the same. We even looked into having some made before we found what we did, and let me tell you, if people don't like what we are asking........ WOW.

I agree that interior items like this would have a very narrow market, and we understood that going in; again, we are not concerned with selling it.

The one thing that I was working on reproducing was a battery tray. I had the idea after I bought a 77 with a Custom S/S battery tray. I contacted 2 friends that have metal fabrication businesses and started putting some numbers together. The tray I had in mind would not have been an OEM 'twin' (once installed you really can't see much of it), but would do the job with all the stock hold downs and mounts just like the one from that car. My next step was to market the S/S tray from the car, both here and on ebay. It took 4 times on ebay, starting at $24.99, and to re-list lower each time until it was bid on. It finally sold for $10.51. Needless to say, I can not even MAKE them for that, even for triple digit quantities.  My next question is "Will an OEM 'clone' do better? Who knows, but that would cost 50 times more for all the tooling.

(I.E. If I do make them, will I sell 100 at $25. or just 10 if I bump the price to $35.?)

Like I said in the other thread, carefull attention needs to be done with any company willing to make parts; if they don't sell the parts in the quantities that are needed for a profit, most likely they won't do it again (for us).

IMHO: There are lots of parts out there that some folks here just don't know about (see the last few posts). Those items need to be addressed, and maybe put in the vendor section. IF a comany makes a part for another car but that same part fits a Pinto, then they might be able to do market reseach faster and easier to identify the demand.

Again, I commend you for your efforts. I am not saying these things to talk you out of doing anything, I just want to let you know that with this 'list', there might be many more issues involved than meets the eye .


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Smeed

Repro seat covers and headliners are all Im looking for right now.

'73 runabout

1975 pinto

6. Sway bar end links (or at least the lower bushing...and if anyone knows where to find these, PLEASE let us know)

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?parttype=78&ptset=A&searchfor=Sway+Bar+Link+Kit

douglasskemp
Is this what you are looking for?
6 miles south of Dayton, Oh

77pintocw

Hi Folks:

I'm in, here is my list:

1) Floor pans
2) Battery trays
3) Patch panels
4) All interior panels
5) Wiring harnesses
6) Front and rear seat upholstery

Thanks,

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

popbumper

Bill:

  You are sounding like a pessimist  ;D, but I think the effort, in the end, will be well worth it...we all stand to gain something from it! The BIGGEST limitation is sheer numbers (i.e., how many people want a part). Knowing full well that this forum does not represent the "whole" of folks interested in Pintos (no forum on any topic does), it still makes sense to roll this out to the folks here FIRST. Then it can go through other channels/networks (EBAY, car shows, etc.) as interest grows.

The time to get this stuff done is now.

As I see it right now, the "hot topics" are as follows:

1) Floor pans
2) Battery trays
3) Patch panels
4) Steering wheels
5) Door sills
6) Dash pads
7) Grilles

Please folks, step up and be heard, the more the merrier. Another few days, and I'm gonna start moving on one of these items.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Cookieboystoys

here's mine...

floor pans
body repair panels (quarter, fender, door)
battery trays and repair patch for under the battery tray
gaskets for wagons and all the different hatches

as someone who doesn't do his own body work and has to pay to have it done.... replacements at almost any cost are better than paying the body man to fabricate on the spot... I know because I have been there. The body guy and I spent lots of time talking about this particular problem as I was restoring my 73. One of the reasons I "paid thru the nose" for replacement quarters and spent way to much time locating them...

I also think these are the parts we have the best chance of having duplicated and will sell...

interior stuff would be just to expensive to duplicate, to many options/colors and the cost involved in setting up the machines to make the parts... well... just not realistic IMHO.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

77turbopinto

Quote from: rkk on February 04, 2008, 08:40:02 AM
...But right now we are limited to salvage yard parts and by the time you pull something out of there and have it reconditioned it cost you more than a repro part....

I would not state that as a 'absolute',  but do I agree that we have some limitations at the current time.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

rkk

I agree Bill, I have retored many cars and if you are going to play you got to pay as they say.
But right now we are limited to salvage yard parts and by the time you pull something out of there and have it reconditioned it cost you more than a repro part.  Unless you just take the chance and use it as is, which in my opinion is always a little risky or doesn't look right.

But you are right it all boils down to supply and demand.  If there is no demand they will be expensive or no one will take the risk in reproducing these.
But I applaud the people who want to make it happen. If we want to compete with the Mustang Camaro crowd it would be nice to see if this is viable. My 2 cents for what it's worth.
1976 TURBO PINTO
1969 AMC AMX not a pinto, but I like it, fast for not being a FORD (It's different just like a PINTO)