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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Pinto reproduction parts - let's poll!!

Started by popbumper, February 03, 2008, 05:15:19 PM

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discolives78



A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

Check "www.sscenterprises.com" and look under "Pinto parts" for the gas tank to filler neck seal. Best wishes from Texas!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

Top of my wish list is the rubber seal from the gas tank to the filler neck. I am fortunate to live in New Mexico where cars don't really rust, so my '78 has rust free floors and quarters.  Fenders, doors and hoods are easy enough to come across.
Next on the wishlist is domelight lens, followed by seat covers and steering wheels.  Looking for the original 3 spoke steering wheel that wont set me back $100.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Fred Morgan

The repaired would need more work like sanding, painting and the turn signal lens are milky white from sun fade. Like new have never had cracks, does not need paint and you can see light bulbs through lens. Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

5.0SteveO

What is the difference between "like new"  and "repaired"?  Both sound like they would look like new, just not new.

Fred Morgan

For a like new early grill I get $150.00 for a repaired 1 $50.00  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

5.0SteveO

I am looking high and low for a new grill for my '72 wagon, hard to come by, it would be great if there was a way to get a new one. 

woodie

how about the electric assist element for the hot water choke? on the 5200
watch this

popbumper

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I am going to look into a number of these items and do research into getting them done. My main drives right this minute are:

1) Floor pans
2) Instrument cluster crumbling white piece

I will keep everyone informed on progress, thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

skunky56

Basic wear items .....
weather stripping for (all models)
door window felts
carpeting for rear of runabouts and wagons
door panles (all models)
rear side panles (all models)
seat covers
dash pads
shifter and e- brake boots
77 Starsky/Hutch 2.3 Turbo A4OD Sunroof
78 Wagon V6 C3

ADaughen

I've looked at my battery tray... there isn't any way *I* can make a repo peice without a press, but I do know a local guy that has a press...  If I make a die, he'd run a batch in the off hours for me.  Once I get back to Ohio, I'm going to take my battery tray over and have him check it out.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

ADaughen

But to answer the OP:

I am looking for:
Door sills and late model headlight buckets
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

ADaughen

How close to original do you all want/need the battery tray?

I have an original '78 tray from my CW I can use as a template to start out.  I'd need the other patterns made and/or photos and measurements taken so I could get them constructed, too.

I have a metal brake and if the demand is there, I can pick up the beading tool to put the patterns in the metal (it's ~$150).

Also, if I got the bead tool, I could also do the floor pans, easily enough...  (I think there is enough of the passenger side to do a pattern, at least.)   :lol:

That size piece of steel wouldn't be costly at all.  The time spent working on it would...  I'd have to figure out how much time it would take to make one, but I suspect a close repo piece could be made for ~$40-50, primed.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

Pintopower

I just had a set of lowering blocks made. They are $100 for the set. They are aluminum. I designed them from a vintage set that were loaned to me (thanks to Barth Hamilton). I picked them up today and they will be installed this weekend. They are 1" blocks.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Crunluath

1. Engine compartment cowl seal.
2. Hood bumpers.
3. Windshield gasket and trim clips.
4. Door hinge bushing kit.
5. Runabout rear hatch hinges, or repair kit.
6. Front seat back knobs.
7. Door panels.
8. Arm rests and trim.
9. Rear hatch gasket and trim clips.
and too much to hope for --- Rear interior replacement panels. ;D
The most fun in a Pinto, is seeing the look on a passengers face, and you hear the gas sloshing around in the gas tank after taking a turn.
Propaganda is for the ignorant.

ip_phreak

Its red..there is a video of it in the "garage" section of this web site!

I live in Gordon, GA btw.
Do you think my pinto is sexy?

Pintony

Quote from: ip_phreak on May 11, 2008, 11:03:34 PM
I'm 15 and restoring a 1971 ford pinto and all im worried about right now is finding a half hatch for the dang thing! the one thats on it is rusted on the inside and wont lock when shut. all the other body parts im not really worried about cause my dads a sheet metal mechanic and my only neighbor is a mechanic for a body shop!
Hello ip_phreak,
Where are you located?
I'm searching for a 1/2 hatch that I lost track of.
I'm not looking to buy it, I just would like to know if someone owns it and is going to fix it up...
What color is your 71?
From Pintony

ip_phreak

I'm 15 and restoring a 1971 ford pinto and all im worried about right now is finding a half hatch for the dang thing! the one thats on it is rusted on the inside and wont lock when shut. all the other body parts im not really worried about cause my dads a sheet metal mechanic and my only neighbor is a mechanic for a body shop!
Do you think my pinto is sexy?

crossy

ehh ehhh ehhh FIRE! FIRE!

Sgtmgarv

Hello,
I just got a price on re-chroming my 76 's bumpers so I am looking to see if there are any out there. Repro's would be a nice option to have.

bobscat

So what are the latest updates if any on this??  I sure hope that there was not a lack of interest and this idea got squashed.......

strat6pony

I'd like to see a taller rear spoiler modeled after 70's Funny Car style. saw the same style on a 69' camaro and it looks awesome.                                                                  http://public.fotki.com/Fastplasticbldr/1_to_1_dragperforma/all_ford_relatedper/alley056.html

apintonut


nice work  :readi know that took some time. to put that list together
and i'm sure every one feel the same when i say thanx for the time invested.
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

Pintopower

I have restored 7 pintos over the last 3 years. There are many parts that I have made or had made. There are also a great deal of parts availible that I have used and loved. The problem is, when I need something for a pinto, I go have it made. Then, when some one wants one, for example, battery trays, I say "Sure, that will be $50." Then they say, "Oh well, I dont know, Um, I'll think about it." Therefore, I no longer give a crap. I make them for my cars and if you want one, you tell me. I Just has a complete set of trans cooler lines made for my sisters 78 2.3/C3 pinto. They are made of Stainless line ordered from McMasterCarr ($25.00), copied by a place in Irwindale, CA, to match the originals EXACTLY for $100 PER line, THEN they went to a place to get the fittings installed for $20. The grand total was $245.00 for a perfect set of trans lines. Plus, it takes me 3 days and a great deal of gas to do this! Some one wanted a set and offered me $100 for them. You see the problem? I will not be insulted or haggled with. The price is the price and that's ALL! I have made the following so far:

1. 2.3/C3 Trans lines in Stainless = $350
2. Early model Bat. Tray with built in heat sheild = $50
3. Late model Bat Tray (narrow battery, great for V6) with built in heat sheild = $50
4. Early bat hold down = $45
5. Mid years bat hold down = $45
6. Narrow bat hold down = $45
7. Early grille (brackets for 74-76 optional) in alluminum (almost done) = $500
8. 71-6 air dam in fiberglas = $75
9. 71-3 valence (73 req. mod) = $125
10. Pangra grille supports = $25
11. Pangra battery tray upper support = $25

There is no barganing here. These prices are still not worth it to me BUT because I love pintos, thats what I offer them at. This is NOT my job, I am a Pharmaceutical Engineer. I do NOT need the money so I will NOT accept you low ball offer. I am sorry if I come across mean, but it really is insulting to get 20 orders for battery trays and then get people who say, "well, I'll think about it." Photos will be posted when I get to it, and trust me, that might be a while. I will have these parts at Fabulous Fords for 2008.

I also have several places that I used fo parts. I have a dozen dealer accounts at different locations. If any one has a question, call me after 8:pm pacific or email me at pintopower@hotmail.com

The following I have used and am satisfied with the products, no lowest bidders here, just "you get what you pary for"

Seat Belts - http://www.ssnake-oyl.com/
Headliners - Headliner mart
Dashes - Just Dashes
Door bushings (correct size)- Dearborn classics
Door Pin - Help! Section at auto parts store (bushings supplied are to large)
Door Striker - Help!
Door Lock Grommet - Cal Mustang
Hood bumpers - Cal Mustang
Wagon Hatch bumpers - Cal Mustang, 67 mustand door
Door latches - Cal Mustang - Fox body mustang
Hood hinge rubber condom - Ford dealer - fox body mustang
78-80 arm rest - cal mustang
71-74 "FORD" emblems - Cal mustang
Visor gromets - Dearborn classics
Proportioning valves - Empi adjustable valve
Front window seal - GreenSales, Talk to DOC
Door seals - Green Sales
Belt Lines - Green Sales
Window channel felts - Talk to me
Door panels - upholsrty place

Everything else I recondition. All mechanical components ome from Kragen auto. I have a dealer account.

I will soon post items for sale on this site. Sorry for the delay Scott,but work has been very busy (which is good).

Again, I am sorry if I sound like a jerk, but when I spend a lot of money for people that say they want things and then back out after I have made them, its irritating.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

apintonut

if they looking to make the $$$ on investments 71-73 grills same with 74-76 but though r out there interior panels mostly the hatch and wagon rear sides
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

cutelitlputtputt


I agree that new reproduction parts are needed.  How about new carburetors, not rebuilts, that work (or new parts that go in them for example the spring thing and a throttle solenoid)! 

also, grill and weatherstripping is a must!!

Jennifer :fastcar:
Anything to keep her runnin'!

V8pinto_306_n2o

Quote from: Pintony on February 05, 2008, 07:59:24 PM
Hello V8pinto_306_n2o,
The problem is that the early Pinto hatch gasket is different than the later gasket.
What year Pinto are you working on???
From Pintony

1973

wedge446

Quarter patch panels for a wagon would be nice..

The killer on most large items will be shipping cost..
I can buy repoped quarters for my wagon at a fair price but the shipping on them is as much as the part it self..
That stops me from buying them..
The smaller the part the more you`ll sell
With a cutting torch and welded anything will fit.

bofferwacker

Other then roll pans, bumpers, and other body parts I would say motor mounts for a V8 because I cant find Mustang II V8 motor mounts any where and the ones that I do find are eather in realy poor condition or the "if the price is right" saying.  Sory to say this but some body that is sitting on a rusted out pinto or mustang and is thinking that they are on a f%$#ing gold mine can KMA. :wow:  Sorry but I will not pay over 100.00 for some GD motor mounts! :amazed: BTW I have found a few websites that offer OEM reproduction weatherstriping for the pinto/bobcat.  PM me for the link.  Also I would say the interior plastic body pannels.  Make molds of them and make them out of 'glass.  I am considering this because 28-37 year old plastic zoops monkey bells :hypno:.  Well that is my 2 cents worth.

pintopimp

No problem.  If individuals don't know what's already out there they're just shooting in the dark at this point.  Further more the last thing we need is 4 months down the road to find out that there are 6 guys making the same battery trays, panels, grilles, etc.  This would be bad for the individuals who just put down the capital and went through the effort to make something happen only to find out now total there's a 1000 pieces of one item out there and it's going to take 15 years to unload them.  Maybe there is a way for us to somehow correspond nationally to keep this from happening. 
1973 Yellow Wagon
1972 Brown Wagon
1972 Red Runabout
1979 Runabout
1972 White Wagon
1971 Red Runabout
1971 Sedan
1974 Runabout
1972 Blue Runabout
1972 Red Wagon
1973 Chesnut Squire
1973 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Turbo Wagon

Known as "the flipper"
Co-Owner of B&B's Used Pintos ;)