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1977 Pinto for parts

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72 PINTO WAGON

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Need 77 or 78 Cruising Wagon Speedometer Tachometer Assembly
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1978 hatch back

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1971 2.0 valve cover
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pinto floor mats??

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Looking for 1.6 exhaust manifold heat shield, front license plate bracket
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Accelerator Pump Diaphram for 1978 Pinto
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(3) 1980 Ford Pinto Station Wagon Projects

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Drop Spindles

Started by Gaslight, February 20, 2006, 07:58:03 AM

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DragonWagon

Cool, I'll add the Gabriel shock link to my "research" list I'm accumulating. I've been trying to focus on this t-bird motor buildup, but it all inter-relates once the brain gets on  a roll.

Your wagon looks like it's coming together. I'm digging that color! Haven't seen one like it before.
1976 mpg Wagon. The start of it all.
1977 Cruising Wagon, to be turboed.
1979 glass hatchback. No motor atm.
1980 wagon parts car.

Glassman

Youre welcome.
I have both Hiedts and the less expensive E-Bay spindles. I have the E-bay spindles boxed and havent look at them in a year or so. From what I remember is that the Hiedts spindles look like Ford factory parts and the E-Bays spindles look like......E-bay spindles. If I wasnt planning on making my Pinto as quick as I can, then the E-Bay spindles would be fine. In my opinion they are both worth their prices. I'll see if I can get one out of the box and take a couple pics for comparison.

As for shocks, I looked around for a while and I found this place on E-Bay that seems to have gas charged shocks quit often. http://cgi.ebay.com/Gabriel-Gas-Shocks-Ford-Mustang-2-Pinto-82027_W0QQitemZ5512960760QQcategoryZ1467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
There might be a better shock out there. I just wanted a basic shock for now. The place was really good to deal with. I accidently double paid and they refunded one payment quickly. The shocks are as described. I bought front and rears.




The front should come up a little after the engine swap. If it doesnt come up about 1/2" then I'll need smaller tires. They rub in the same areas as the 79. The rear is sitting up a little higher than I like. I'll see what its like after some miles are put on it.

DragonWagon

Yeah, thanks for the pics and info Glassman! I plan on doing this to my wagon later in the year/next year. Are the Hiedts spindles really worth the extra $ over their competitors? Seems they are running about $100 more than the others...

Thinking of suspension, who makes a good rear shock for our wagons ('74-'80)? A fair amount of choices for the fronts, but not the rear, at least for the wagons :( . Thought I had heard something about them being the same as an older Camaro takes, but couldn't find the thread.
1976 mpg Wagon. The start of it all.
1977 Cruising Wagon, to be turboed.
1979 glass hatchback. No motor atm.
1980 wagon parts car.

Glassman

Glad I could help. I geuss being home sick was good for something.

Gaslight

NICE!  Thanks for the pictures.  I just a couple of hours ago paid for the drop spindles so they are on there way.  I have a better idea what I am getting myself into now.

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."

Glassman

I just swapped the Hiedts(SP?) 2" drop spindles from the 79 to the 78.

Heres a pic of the 79 passenger side installed. The stock 13" wheels can be mounted backwards to clear without the calipers on. With the calipers on I had to use a 1/4" spacer. I had the 13s on to just move the car around.


Here is a shot of the 78s drivers side put together. the wheel is a 3.5x15 draglite with a 1.5 backspace.

**A real big pic is here http://photos.imageevent.com/pandbz/78pintowagon/78%20pinto%20036.jpg**

The brake lines are pretty tight. I'm going to replace them with longer lines. The upper arm has to be ground down a little for clearence. Heidts describes this in the instructions they provide. Also if youre going to reuse the dust shields, they need new holes drilled for the mounting bolts. The spindles still limit how far down the suspension hangs. Shouldnt be a problem on the street. If I was pulling the front end up all the time (Like Jeffs going to be doing soon  :cheesy_p:) then I would be more concerned about the ball joint getting damaged. The tires are a little tall also. They are about 25" tall. They would sometimes rub if I was on the brakes and turning sharp with the stock hight suspension. They look like they are going to rub on the 78. They did rub the 79s inner fender. The firewall one, right where you put your feet when sitting inside. I used a big hammer to get enough clearence. For some reason the 78 doesnt look like it will be as bad.

Heres the caliper side.

Bigger pic here http://photos.imageevent.com/pandbz/78pintowagon/78%20pinto%20039.jpg

I'm still working on it. I need to swap the power rack for manual one from the 79. Thats why the cotter pins are not all in yet. Once the car is on the road and the mechanical bugs worked out, then I'll take it all apart and please the shiney police when its back together.  :coolrasta:

Now, as for the look of the lowered suspension........... the car sits at about stock hight with 15" wheels.

Bigger pic. http://photos.imageevent.com/pandbz/78pintowagon/78%20pinto%20031.jpg

The suspensions are only a couple years old. They have about 2500 towed miles one the 79. It had a 2.3 5speed with just the alt. on the engine. The 78 is a v6 auto with a/c, p/s, p/b and smog equipment.

Gaslight

Oh no.  When I said that I was just measuring the amount of drop.  So measuring with stock wheels the ride height of the car with a 2" drop.  The drop spindles are for converting the car over to a 5 lug.  I am going to do it all at once with new wheels at that point.  I have to get in there and take a closer look.  I glanced under there the other day and did not see any reason why the drop spindles would not work as is.

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."

77turbopinto

Quote from: Gaslight on February 20, 2006, 11:53:43 AM
Well on my 74 with the stock rims and tires it would be exactly where I wanted to go...


I thought you were thinking about stock rims.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Gaslight

I am looking at a 16 inch wheel.  At the very least a 15 inch.  Not really worried about that part.

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."

77turbopinto

14" stock rims get very close to the upper arm on the later pintos (I was grinding the wheel weights off). A 2" drop, depending on the rims, might be a problem.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Pintony

Hello Jake,
The drop spindels should be a direct swap.

Gaslight

Well on my 74 with the stock rims and tires it would be exactly where I wanted to go.  Then I just need to machine out some lowering blocks for the rear.  Just as long as there is not some problem in fitting them I had not heard about.

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."

Pintony

Hello Jake,
The 2" drop spindels would be alot for the ford Pinto.
Maybe too much?
I have not used them because they will not work on the early Pinto.
From Pintony

Gaslight

  I am going to lower my 74 down a bit.  I have used the Pinto drop spindles on hot rods before but have not seen anything on here about people using them on there Pintos.  Is there any reason why?  Or am I just not finding the threads?

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."