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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New to me 79 Pinto glass hatch ESS

Started by russosborne, April 01, 2018, 01:43:15 AM

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dga57

Sounds like getting everything out of the car and put away will keep you busy for a day or two.  Just try to stay focused on the anticipated end result!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Couple of extra parts.
AC heater box. Car was heater only.
Front and Rear sump 2.3L oil pans.
One original rim. Not the hubcap kind. Will have to take a picture. He did have all 4 but apparently they rolled off over the years. Who knows, they could show up when he moves some stuff around, but I'm not worried about it. I wouldn't use them anyway.

Couple of wiring harnesses, not sure why he has two.
Headlight assemblies.
Bumpers.
Dash.
Smog pump stuff.
I haven't gone through everything yet. Probably won't for a while. I need to get all the parts that are stuffed inside the car out (like the bumpers and dash and who knows what) and then take a good look at what is what.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, the car is now at it's new home.
That's the good news.

The bad news is I saw a couple of patches on the driver's floor that I didn't see before. I can't really crawl around under it right now with my back hurting, and frankly am a little scared to, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is rust. Not sure about the passenger side, way too much stuff sitting on it right now.

I did the same thing with the Ranchero. I got under it and looked and didn't see it. I must have rust blinders on or something. :'( :-[

I'll know more once I get all the  parts out of the interior, but that won't be today for sure. I already have like 7 totes full of parts to take to our storage room. More than I can take in the Subaru in one trip.

Be going to Home Depot later on for a tarp. Or maybe I should just scrap it now and get ahead of the curve.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on April 07, 2018, 10:15:25 PM

I should be excited about tomorrow morning, but right now I am about 50/50 on calling the guy and telling him to keep the $500 but I don't want the stupid thing.


A good night's sleep should help dispel that thought!  Hang in there, Russ!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Right now I am having serious doubts about using the Mustang for parts. Just moved it from one side of the driveway to the other as it was in the way of where the Pinto needs to go. 3 people couldn't really do it, I ended  up having to use the Subaru for a push truck. I can't work on pulling the engine/trans where it is at and I don't know if I have another move in me. Stupid thing wouldn't start It always started before. Maybe has sat too long with the gas. I put some more gas in, that was a major undertaking in itself. Bought a new gas container, then I had to modify it to even get gas into the fill pipe. And then I think it was about 2 parts into the tank and 1 part on the ground. I even ended up cutting the wires to the inertia switch and wiring them together, but still no fire. I think the Mustang knows what I am planning to do with it. Although at this point scrapping the whole car is a serious option.
I'm going to try to give myself some time to cool off. But if it wasn't so late already I'd be calling a scrapper.

I should be excited about tomorrow morning, but right now I am about 50/50 on calling the guy and telling him to keep the $500 but I don't want the stupid thing.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on April 06, 2018, 04:21:59 AM

I hope I am doing the right thing. I probably am, but am having the middle of the night "what the heck am I doing this for when I have the Ranchero that needs work/money" moments.


I think it's entirely normal to second guess ourselves; I know I do it all the time!  It will all work out - just have a little faith! 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Heard from the seller without my having to send him a message.
Still on for Sunday, it will be before the break of dawn (for me) at about 10am. He has the title ready to go as well.

His friend is not interested in the Mustang. Probably a good thing in the long run. I won't feel so rushed taking the stuff from it.  I guess worst case scenario is I pay to have the shell taken away. Still think someone will buy it. After I have all the stuff I want off I will list it on CL, parting it out or all for a much lesser price than the individual parts. I need to get some gas for it, need it running to move so I can put the Pinto behind it. Hate putting gas in it just to take it apart, but it would be much easier if it moves under it's own power the next couple of days.

I hope I am doing the right thing. I probably am, but am having the middle of the night "what the heck am I doing this for when I have the Ranchero that needs work/money" moments.

Thanks,
Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Maybe I should have titled this Third times the charm? More likely Three strikes and you're out!

I realized I have pictures on my phone, but don't have a usb cord for this phone and the computer. Probably a good thing, that way it will be a little longer before you all say I am insane.

Looking at those pictures tonight at work. Wondering if I am insane. I mean there is a reason this guy had such a hard time selling this car. It will be a project for sure.

I keep going back and forth about the Mustang as a donor. But I think I have settled on yes. Worst case I put the remains on CL as a bare rolling shell for $100 and take whatever. There are enough parts that will go with it to make it a good deal. I will probably yank the entire wiring harness. The Pinto does come with the original, but I will be changing and moving the fuse box at the very least. The fox Mustang ones are pretty good. Newer style fuses and pretty compact. Thinking about the console, would most likely take the front(under dash) part and mate it with the Mustang II dash I bought a few years ago since the Pinto ebrake is in the middle of the tunnel and the fox Mustangs are off to the side, so that part of the console wouldn't work. Or make the rear part, I will need cup holders. Believe it or not, the Pinto and the Ranchero will be taking turns being a daily driver. If I ever get both running at the same time.

Seriously thinking about taking the radiator support and possibly the top section of the inner fenders (part where the fenders bolt on to) from the 74. Saw someone here that cut out the inner fenders for a cage but left those intact. Not sure if that will be easier than fabbing up a radiator holder. Probably, at least for me as I am better at modifying than I am at creating from scratch. Although I did like how the rear box came out on the 74. Which I WILL be taking out and keeping. Don't know if I can use it as is with the cage, but going to try and see what happens.

Keep flipflopping on the front end as well. I really like the small bumper look, and not a huge fan of the 79 style front. I mean it's ok, but not great. The issue is I have (will have) everything for the 79. Grill, headlights, bumpers, etc. Seller has everything he has taken off of the car. I would have to buy some stuff if I wanted to do the other front end. Actually would need everything but the fenders and hood. And this is something I can always do later, as I won't be putting a big money paint job on it anytime soon. Maaco most likely.
I do need to look into the one piece front ends and find out what if anything is still available. Maybe do it out of steel with the 79 parts, since I wouldn't get too upset if it didn't work out. Kind of silly wanting a tilt front end with a 2.3, but you never know what the future could bring. And  it would definitely be different.

The 89 Mustang steering column the seller put on doesn't have anything for the turn signals. The column is really just the actual column, or shaft. If it wasn't a tilt it would be one of the first things to go. But maybe I can do something with it. Also the lower shaft is welded to a universal joint that attaches to the rack. I don't know if that is something that comes apart further up or not, so have to look into that before making any plans for the column. The rack is a quick steer made by a company called Sweet Mfg. Have to see if they are still around.

Will definitely be putting the tubular upper control arms on. Might as well, brand new bushings and ball joints. Plus they will fit right in  the race car scheme. Just need to get the lowers at some point. Not sure about using the spindles I got. I can't remember if they are lowered or not. I am sure I posted details in the 74 thread. Just have to go look. Kind of dreading that.

From the pictures there may be more surface rust than I thought. But it could also be just dirt. Either way, I need to start at one end and use a wire wheel or something and clean it all up and paint it. That needs to be one of the first things I do before getting carried away with fancy stuff. I don't want to leave stuff like that.

Got to thinking about the dash situation. I need to have the vin there, so I am going to have to at least use the metal piece of the dash that goes to the windshield that has it attached. Jeg's has an aluminum dash http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Aluminum-Dash-and-Dash-End-Panels/1796962/10002/-1 for just over $100 that I can probably make work with that piece if I have to. Although I am still going to try to make the stock dash work. Might have to make it like a jigsaw puzzle so I can get it to fit around the pieces of the cage, but I don't want this to look like a race car as much as a street car with race car genes. If that makes any sense. I could not come up with the words I really wanted to say.
Car is going to have to have A/C for instance. Don't know if this car originally came with it, being from New York I have my doubts. But that can be fixed. Maybe pull the a/c stuff off of the Mustang.

Of course this is all based on my actually getting the car. For some reason I am having worries about the seller flaking out on me. I will contact him later tonight, hoping he has the title ready to go and still on for Sunday.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I don't know. See my post in the off topic area.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Russ,


Glad to hear you got a good checkup from your doctor!  I suspect once you really delve into these projects and work through the initial exhaustion, you'll start feeling better really soon!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I'm trying, but the " I think I can" keeps coming out  "I think I can't" ::)

I just read the thread on my Ohio 79 Pinto. Maybe it is having this new car, but it wasn't as depressing as it was last time I read it not too long ago. Looking at that poor car and all the rust I don't know what I was thinking. Yet my Ranchero might have more rust than it did.

Going back and forth on pulling the engine/trans stuff from the Mustang. The seller has a friend up here who actually runs a Fox Mustang parts/salvage yard/shop (don't remember the name, but I had heard of it before this weekend) who the seller says may be interested in buying the leftovers. I had to send him some pictures and told him if his friend wanted to, I would take a different 2.3 along with a T5 trans for the whole car. Be MUCH easier on me. Haven't heard back if he has even seen the text yet. In that case I would most likely put a carb on the engine and have no need for the computer. Or save up and buy a stand alone EFI computer like a Stinger.

Hey, Phil, if you are reading this, I might have another complete 79 dash for you.  ;D ;D ;D :P

Seriously, it is coming with a decent dash(pad even looked usable) , but with the cage I would have to really do some modifying. I am thinking about just buying a generic aluminum race car dash that you cut to fit and install gauges in. Depends on how much I would have to modify the stock dash. I like the idea of having the stock dash, but ...

Speaking of the Mustang, I actually went out and looked at it. I think the wiring is less than I had thought would need pulled. Tried to start it, battery was dead. Charged it up, think the car is too low on gas. Wife asked what did the gas gauge say. Doh. I didn't look at it, was just reaching in and turning the key. Maybe tomorrow. It was cranking fine when the battery was charged. I also may have hit the inertia switch in the trunk that turns off the fuel pump. I've done that before. But really think it is just out of gas, like it's owner. Or it knows what I am going to do to it and it won't go easy.  Honestly, if I had a good transferable title to it I would just sell it, but I don't.

I also got the Ranchero moved about a foot to the side so I can get the engine hoist out. Poor Ranchero. I really do need to get it done first so I can really work on the Pinto in the back behind the fence where the Ranchero is now. Don't know if I can do two cars at once(little Ranchero, little Pinto). I need to get it rolling at least. Just when I was planning on taking it apart.  :-\

But at least I got SOMETHING positive done today. I have tomorrow off as well, have a cardiologist appointment at 10, then grocery shopping and nothing else planned. If I don't here from the seller I guess I need to get the Mustang running enough to move to the side out of the way and then start prepping for the big operation. I am hoping to have it ready to be taken away by whomever before Sunday when the Pinto is supposed to be here. I am hoping that with the Pinto against the gate and fully tarped except when I am working on it no one will complain to the city. I need to make sure to keep the weeds in check to help with that. Seems the city will drive around looking for things like that. I'm just not good at yard work stuff.

My primary care doctor visit today went better than I had expected. Mainly adding a couple of meds, and tweaking some others. He did a circulation test on my legs, a breathing test, and an ekg. All were ok. He wants me to have an echocardiogram done at the cardiologist's office (they do all sorts of tests, pretty big place). Upshot being I am not going to drop dead doing stuff, I just need to start doing it and get some stamina going. The way I've been feeling I was worried something was wrong with my heart/bypass stuff.

I'm really anxious to get the Pinto here. It's not really mine til then.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Congratulation s, Russ!  It actually sounds pretty good and, as you pointed out, you have plenty of parts!  Don't let self doubt get in your way; you CAN do this!  Can't wait to see pictures!

Happy Easter!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

ETA: I'M BA_ACK.  ;)

This is the one I posted about being for sale in Tucson.

Bought it today. Will be getting it delivered in the next week.

Don't really have any pictures of it yet. Got some on my phone, but can't get them on this computer. Besides, I want to get some good ones once it is here.

It's a mess, really. But a promising mess.  ::)

The below is pretty much from memory from a very long day today.  :-[
Some  of this will be much clearer once I get some pictures up. He already took down his CL ad.

Oh, speaking of the seller. His parents were the original owners. He got the car when he was about 17 after his first car died. Or something like that. New York car for the first 2 years, then they moved to Arizona. No rust. Really. He put the turbo 2.3 in it and did lots of other work (some mentioned below) then decided to go crazy with it. That was probably his mistake. It was running with a turbo 2.3 and T5, but then he decided he wanted a "race car for the street"with a full cage etc.
It's now been sitting about 20 years. Guy put a lot of money into the full roll cage, sub frame connectors, and some other stuff (he didn't do the welding, had a local oval track race car shop do it)and then it got put to the rear. Been garaged the whole time. And this is Tucson, so low humidity.  It's setup for a fox Mustang 2.3 rear sump oil pan. Makes my life easier to put my Mustang 2.3 in it. Although for now I am stuck with the A4LD auto trans.
Recently had a brother pass away and he got his brother's 78 Mustang II. Decided it was finally time to let the Pinto go.

Rolls, full suspension and steering. Although the seller had put an 89 Mustang tilt column in it. Steers but no wiring done. Bare column, no plastic bits. I like the tilt, but not sure at this point. Has a quick ratio rack and pinion. Can't remember the name, starts with an S. I'll be putting the tubular upper control arms on it.

Comes with most stuff except engine/trans/seats. But in a lot of storage bins.
Dash is apart, will be a challenge if I want to use it with the cage. But it's all there except for the stock radio.
Full factory harness, but we all know what I think of those.  :D

He shaved the door handles off, it's setup to use the door key to open the door. One side needs some work, hadn't been used for the 20 years or so.
Frenched power radio antenna on the passenger rear quarter.
Homemade (but he is really good, he makes rear seat deletes now for Fox bodied Mustangs) door panels.
Dual remote sport mirrors. I have them on the 74, will see which are in better shape.
Rear facing Citation X (remember those cars?) hood scoop riveted/glassed in. Only has a small hole cut in the hood for where his turbo something went, but simple enough to cut the hood to fully utilize the scoop for clearance for EFI assuming I keep that on my 2.3. The rear of the scoop is open.
8 inch rear with 4:10 gears. Something I've always wanted. Really means I need the overdrive transmission.
Grill and front lights all there somewhere. I saw most of the front end stuff. Mounting it all might be another challenge.

Honestly, I'd love to make this a tilt front end. Preferably with fiberglass, but don't know if there is a one piece 79 front end made. Could end up doing it with steel. Oh, the cage is run all the way to the front of the front subframe. Which is the cause of the challenge in getting it all together.

I will need to locate a windshield. All the other glass is there and good, including the Moon Roof and the hatch. Speaking of which I need the hydraulic supports for the hatch.

Has both bumpers, but not on the car. At least I should be able to do the tucked in mod with this car. Although if I remember right, the 77/78 came with aluminum bumpers. Something to look for later on.

I will make a vow here that I will NOT be tearing this thing down for the fun of it. Heck, it's already pretty much tore down. I will take stuff off if I am replacing them, but only when I am ready to actually replace it.

I need/want to go through the interior with a grinder to clean up some surface rust, and paint  it. I am not getting the cage certified, so I don't have to worry about not painting the welds.

Have to see if the power seats from the 97/8 Mustang I had bought for the 89 Fox Mustang will fit. Hope so, would be nice not to have to pay for seats right now. I could use the factory seats from the 74, but at this point they need a full reupholster job.

And yes, some buyer's remorse already. I can't tell anyone in my family about this, it would cause some hurt feelings that I spent money on another car right now. Plus I have doubts about my ability to do the work on this. Not from a mechanical point of view, this is all well within my skills. But more of a physical "can I get out there and really do the work" sort of thing. I mean I have a really bad track record lately of not getting anything done other than spending money.  :-[

I really need to pull the engine/trans/radiator/computer/wiring from the 89 like tomorrow. Or at least this week so I can get that car gone. It would be easier if I could just buy all new stuff, but that isn't happening. It's here, it's paid for, so I need to use it. Until I put a Cleveland in this sooner or later.  ;D
But for now I need to get it on the road asap, and the Mustang stuff will pretty much do that.

Anybody in Phoenix/Glendale who is bored and wants to help let me know. ;D

I really hope this doesn't end up like my other two Pintos here did. Or the Mustang either. I haven't given up on the Ranchero.

Thanks,
Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.