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1976 Squire wagon

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New to me 79 Pinto glass hatch ESS

Started by russosborne, April 01, 2018, 01:43:15 AM

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dga57

Hi Russ!


It's good to know you're still hanging in there!  The pandemic is a temporary situation so, tough as it may be, I would hesitate to make irrevocable decisions unnecessarily. Continuing on with your project might well even be considered therapeutic insofar as coping with the depression related to your living situation.  I don't know; I'm certainly no expert.  Perhaps you'll find happiness in being unencumbered by a long-term project.  Anything's possible.  So... no real advise here.  I would simply implore you to think it through thoroughly before you make a decision, then do whatever you think is best.  The pandemic will eventually fade into the pages of history just as the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 did.  Some things will likely change forever but, as a people, we're pretty adaptable.  There is no real way to know yet exactly what our future will look like.  I tend to think that, to a large extent, it will be whatever we make of it. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Anybody want a Pinto?

I'm seriously thinking I can't do this. I was so swept up in the project certain important things never occurred to me. Like how do I get an engine correctly mounted? The roll cage is probably a serious safety hazard on the street.

My job has really slowed down, we are having unpaid furlough days, and a very real possibility of layoffs later in the summer. So the money train has ran off the rails for now at least.

My thinking is I could work with what I have, which would be close to doing everything but an engine and windshield. And then still be where I am at now as far as the engine goes. Or just pack it in now. The money situation is temporary due to the airlines economic problems due to the virus. If I don't get laid off that is.

The stepson and family are still living with us with no change in sight, which is causing me more depression that I care to admit to anyone since it won't change anything.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on March 14, 2020, 02:17:01 AM
Thanks.
I honestly don't remember which this has. Wasn't planning on using it so I didn't pay attention. Guess that has changed.
Russ

Assuming it's the original grille, being an ESS, I'm pretty sure the grille is black.  Again, I'm not as much up on the Pintos of the late '70s to 1980 as I am the Bobcats because of working in a Lincoln-Mercury dealership.  Prior to that job I was more familiar with Pintos, as my first car was a new Pinto. 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks.
I honestly don't remember which this has. Wasn't planning on using it so I didn't pay attention. Guess that has changed.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: TIGGER on March 13, 2020, 11:33:50 PM
79-80 Pintos had chrome grilles as well.  My dads 79 wagon came with it from the factory.  You will need the chrome headlight bezels to finish it off though.  Just letting you know you are not limited to the bobcat.

Good to know.  I was 100% certain about the Bobcat because I was selling Lincoln-Mercury automobiles at the time, plus my mother had a '79 Bobcat.  Was not as certain about the Pintos of the day so decided against mentioning that possibility.  Thanks!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

TIGGER

79-80 Pintos had chrome grilles as well.  My dads 79 wagon came with it from the factory.  You will need the chrome headlight bezels to finish it off though.  Just letting you know you are not limited to the bobcat.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

dga57

Quote from: 1972 Wagon on March 06, 2020, 12:44:20 PM
I miss chrome trim on cars. Our 1949 Chevy Styleline Deluxe has chrome from bumper-to-bumper. Although keeping it nice and shine requires some elbow grease, I like the look. My husband and I talk about how you used to be able to identify a car's make just by looking at it. Now it seems that most vehicles have a some what generic appearance.

I could not agree more!!!  My daily drivers are a 2018 F-150 Lariat which came with the chrome package (to which I added chrome bed rails and chrome inlays in the embossed F-150 on the tailgate) and a 2017 Cadillac XTS which, while not adorned the way Cadillacs used to be, still has enough bling to look like a Cadillac.   As you said, most cars have a very generic look nowadays, and I'm not a big fan of that! :(   

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

1972 Wagon

I miss chrome trim on cars. Our 1949 Chevy Styleline Deluxe has chrome from bumper-to-bumper. Although keeping it nice and shine requires some elbow grease, I like the look. My husband and I talk about how you used to be able to identify a car's make just by looking at it. Now it seems that most vehicles have a some what generic appearance.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on March 05, 2020, 11:27:04 PM

The grilles I have seen all in black are what is killing me. Maybe I can add some chrome, or body color. Or just try not to look at it.


Search for a Mercury Bobcat grille - they're chrome and I agree with you that I personally like that look a lot better than black.  Actually, black trim is "the thing" now and I can't, for the life of me, understand why.  My daughter-in-law bought a new 2020 Jeep Cherokee in December and paid a big premium to get one with the blackout trim and black wheels.  The Jeep itself is burgundy in color and there just not enough contrast to give it any distinction at all.  As my mother used to say, "to each his own!"

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I may have to learn to live with it for now. I'm not going to compromise on the Cleveland, so will have to compromise elsewhere.
The grilles I have seen all in black are what is killing me. Maybe I can add some chrome, or body color. Or just try not to look at it.
Still wanting to do the one piece tilt front end. Was going to order a tilt kit from VFN Fiberglas, til I saw the price. Gone up a bit since I last looked. I've got the plans here somewhere to make my own. Not real high on the priority list right now anyway.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Generally speaking, I think the first edition of any automotive design is usually purest and best so I definitely understand your hankering for an early-style front end.  That said, I never really minded the update on the '79 - '80 models (I personally like it a lot better than the '77 - '78, or even the '76 for that matter, but that's just my opinion).  I could definitely live with it.  I think with only having one project, you'll be able to get this one going very quickly.
Good luck!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks.
Looks like the guy won't be pulling and giving me back the one engine, so that is going to slow things down. But I can keep busy getting everything else ready to go. Except for the clutch and the engine (and the windshield) I think I am done with any major purchases. I may have to keep and use the 79 front sheet metal for now due to the engine situation, but we'll see. I keep thinking I can live with it, but then I see a car with it and think no way.
Got a couple of tool type things this weekend, need to get them located. Then I can start on the Pinto again.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

One project at a time was all I was ever able to handle.  Like you said though, the money isn't truly lost if it bought you some happiness.  Hope you'll have that Pinto on the road before long!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

This is now officially my only project car.
Yay!
So much money down the toilet though. Boo.  Although the 74 and the first Ranchero did bring a lot of happiness, so not so bad. The second Ranchero was a really bad decision. Lesson learned, I hope.

I need to go through all the stuff in storage for this and decide what I will need (very little) and get rid of the rest. Maybe I will go to the local swap meet next month and setup a table. So tired of trying to sell stuff on Craigslist anymore. Had wanted to do that today, but only got rid of the 2nd Ranchero Saturday about noon. Probably better not to rush it anyway. Need to catch my breath and plan instead of just reacting for once.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I ended up selling the body cart. Didn't really need it and the money was helpful.
only ate the shipping cost.
Got the Pinto in back finally. Now it is time to get going on it for real. i want to be out there now, but I am wore out from moving it.
Have to remember little steps are better than no steps.
Need to get it on jackstands and get the rear springs and rear end off the car. Then it is all assembly after that for the most part.
not sure what I am doing for an engine, I don't think the guy who bought the Ranchero is going to give me the engine back. My fault, I didn't get it out while I had the chance. That mistake is going to cost me a lot of money.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on February 09, 2020, 07:00:43 PM

I got something positive done today. Finally got the body cart I bought from Eastwood assembled. Really wanted to get the Pinto on it, but I started way too late and ran out of energy anyway. One small step for most people, one GIANT step for Russ.


A step is a step.  Well done!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Only problem is my mind is a blank at times. Have to decide if 5 or 6 gauges is a couple too many. I'm only finding aftermarket dash gauge bezels for up to 4 small gauges and 2 larger ones for speed and tach.

I got something positive done today. Finally got the body cart I bought from Eastwood assembled. Really wanted to get the Pinto on it, but I started way too late and ran out of energy anyway. One small step for most people, one GIANT step for Russ.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on February 09, 2020, 04:24:24 AM
In all the hub-bub with er visits (4 out of the 6 of us), selling the Ranchero, etc, I forgot to mention I picked up a slightly used aluminum dash for the Pinto. Painted white and has a cut out on each end for probably a cage, but otherwise not cut. $20. Need to get a picture of it. Similar to this one, not as wide.
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/70800/10002/-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu7at0J7E5wIVkONkCh3BnAf4EAYYASABEgLbYPD_BwE

Just got reminded of it as I realized I now have a full dash since I won't be using the gauges I had in the rusty Ranchero. Not as fancy as I had wanted, but for now cheap and/or already paid for is good. Tach, speedometer, gas, oil pressure, voltage, boost/vacuum, and water temp. Hmm, might have to add another just to even things out. Oil temp maybe?
Have to work on a layout. Do I want xxxXXxxx, for example?

Thanks,
Russ

Nothing's more fun to work with than a blank slate! 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

In all the hub-bub with er visits (4 out of the 6 of us), selling the Ranchero, etc, I forgot to mention I picked up a slightly used aluminum dash for the Pinto. Painted white and has a cut out on each end for probably a cage, but otherwise not cut. $20. Need to get a picture of it. Similar to this one, not as wide.
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/70800/10002/-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu7at0J7E5wIVkONkCh3BnAf4EAYYASABEgLbYPD_BwE

Just got reminded of it as I realized I now have a full dash since I won't be using the gauges I had in the rusty Ranchero. Not as fancy as I had wanted, but for now cheap and/or already paid for is good. Tach, speedometer, gas, oil pressure, voltage, boost/vacuum, and water temp. Hmm, might have to add another just to even things out. Oil temp maybe?
Have to work on a layout. Do I want xxxXXxxx, for example?

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks. The guy buying my Ranchero thinks he may have a connection for a windshield. We'll see.
This is a shopping cart list of stuff I need to order for the body, front mainly.
https://0407a0f.netsolstores.com/cart.aspx
Will need to add the rear valance panel, I know it will need modified.
Doubtfull I could order them all together, but that would save a lot on shipping.

Thinking of making a custom tubular grille for it, have to see.
The hood is a bolt on for the hinges, which will be how I have to use it at first until I am ready to do the tilt.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend

I'd think a standard ratchet strap down low through the door openings will work. Put it near the latching pillar so the door can close (at least one click).

You can likely find a windshield..., it is just how far you need to go to get one. They made over 3 million Pinto's, granted you likely have the "fewer of" glue in type.  They made well under 100,000 Studebaker Larks in the last model and recently someone got another batch of undisclosed numbers made. So, maybe manufactures just need to know.  That said, if you buy from a glass shop and have them do the install it is probably in the $500-$800 range.  If you find one in a wrecking yard..., probably $50.

A while back there was discussion about the gasket type and the glue in type - and one could be swapped for the other (forgot which way it works). Find that and see if it offers options.


russosborne

Got the cart Friday.
Was hoping to get to work on it today, but it was raining all day.
Oh, well.
I have to figure out a way to strap the Pinto to it somehow. Body just sits on rubber pads on this thing. I will be needing to move it, and that includes a bit of a sloped driveway, which the instructions are pretty specific about not using this on.

I'm so worried about the windshield now I am not sure I even want to work on this. If I can't find a windshield for it there isn't a point.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I am so tired. I posted this in the wrong thread.
Oh, well.

I may get killed by my wife, so if I don't post anywhere for a while that is what happened.

I really need to get the Pinto moveable so I can get rid of the other two cars.
So I just ordered this.
https://www.eastwood.com/heavy-duty-body-cart-57493.html
Cheap enough, but shipping pretty much doubles the price.
At least I will be able to get it in the back sooner so I can work on it at night.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Well, I can certainly understand both positions!  Good luck with whatever you decide!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Not at this point. It may have been sold.
Someone was supposed to be looking at it Tuesday night.
And I would have to look at it before buying it.

I would prefer a Ranchero. But only if it is worth it. Whatever we get needs to be no more than a weekend away from being a reliable daily driver for me.

Although I have found something else. It looks like my 72. It is a 72 red Ranchero. Same price as the 73, but body is in rougher shape. Fender and all the front grille area has been replaced. Not red.
Again, would need to be really looked at.
I'm so stressed right now. Karen is resigned to me buying another Ranchero, but really doesn't want me to. Too old. But for me, that old I can work on and know what I am doing. (other than making sure there is no rust apparently).
Now, with either Ranchero, I have a lot of new parts for when it needs suspension work. The 72 has factory air, but isn't working. I have a brand new compressor, a dryer, and an expansion valve that I bought way back for the current 72. Not that I want to have to do any work right away, but I have most of the likely stuff for the air at least. So that shouldn't be a big time delay.

Too many decisions for me.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on September 08, 2019, 09:48:53 PM

The 73 has a Cleveland as well, so no need to keep the one from the 72 for it.



Does this mean you have decided on the '73 Ranchero you mentioned several posts back?

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks.

The bad part about the 72 is that Karen's ex paid for it, and she feels attached to it. But like I said, reality time, and it is just too much for me.
Just taking the stuff off is going to be a pain, the hood won't open. Not sure why yet. To be honest, I haven't looked in a couple of years. And that statement alone proves that it is time for it to go. But ever since I got the Pinto, I have been wanting to take the Cleveland from the 72. I guess deep down I knew what was coming.
And doing this will mean the Pinto is ready to run a lot quicker. Odds are the 351W I bought will have to be gone through if not rebuilt. Note to self-next time you buy an engine for more than $100, make sure you hear it run.
The 73 has a Cleveland as well, so no need to keep the one from the 72 for it.

I need to hurry up and get the Pinto rolling, so I can move it to get the others out. Told my wife they'd be gone by Thanksgiving, but I am hoping for Halloween. I'm better at taking apart, so the 72 should be a piece of cake at this point.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on September 08, 2019, 04:23:13 PM
I kind of feel like a quitter :-[, yet I am feeling kind of free as well 8)l.  :-\



I get where you're coming from; it's sad to give up on a project BUT it's extraordinarily difficult to have three projects going on at the same time!  That's not even accounting for health issues, etc.  Sacrificing the '74 Pinto wagon and the Ranchero will be well worthwhile if it leads to finishing the '79 Pinto and getting it on the road.  What a sense of accomplishment you'll feel when you drive it for the first time!!! 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, won't know til next weekend, but odds are I am going to be putting a Cleveland into the Pinto.  ;D :'( Will have to sell some of the stuff I bought for the 351W engine I bought. Shouldn't be too hard. Most of what I have like radiator and trans stuff will fit the C. I made sure of that.  ;D

I was worried about using the T5 behind it, but according to the specs I've found online that won't be a problem for it or the 8 inch. For now.  :P

Been looking/thinking about the 72 Ranchero. I am pretty sure it is dead. Whatever I get. The rust is just too much. So I will take stuff from it like the engine and the 72 specific front sheet metal. It and the 74 wagon just need to go away. Then I can put the 79 in where the Ranchero is so I can work on it behind closed gates out of the zoning inspector's eyes. And feel safe working on it at 1AM if I want to. Great time for doing the electrical if nothing else. That stuff isn't noisy.

I tried really hard not to give up on those, but turning 60 a month ago has really given me a dose of reality in the face. I can only do so much. And even that seems to be getting less and less. I think I can handle the 79 if I can have it in a place where I can work on it easily when  I want to over the cooler times here. Essentially it is all bolt on.  ::) I will be keeping the 79 front sheet metal on it for now at least. After it is on the road I can think about changing it if I still want to. Other than the hood scoop everything else will be just a few bolts. But the hood scoop will be needed with either 351.
The Ranchero is full of rust, not just the floors. All the body panels. I may find that even the fenders aren't worth keeping once I take a good look at them.

I kind of feel like a quitter :-[, yet I am feeling kind of free as well 8)l.  :-\

If anyone needs 74 wagon specific glass (no windshield) or the hatch or anything, let me know. I also have the luggage rack I could take off. Not great, but straight. I'll probably put an ad in the classifieds for that stuff, but I will only remove it if wanted. I have no storage space. I also will have a torn down 8 inch Pinto/II rear end complete. Probably more once I really take inventory.

Thanks,
Russ
















In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Hey Russ!


Well, at least it shouldn't be too long until the weather eases up a little and you'll get a break from the intense heat.  Hang in there!!!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.