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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

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russosborne

I'm there. Been there for a few months.
Same user name.
Just haven't posted much lately since the Ranchero has just been parked the last month or so.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

fordpower

You need to join us at gran torino sport.org with that 72,

russosborne

Just when I think I have a plan....

I was out trying to move the wrecked Mustang. Wanted it turned around. Wouldn't start. Anyway, after messing with that for a half hour or so (seeing what works on it, ie just playing around) I thought I should fire up the Ranchero. I haven't even started it for like a month. Since I got home after the heater hose fun in fact.
Sitting in it listening to the engine I am thinking "how can I settle for a V6 in the Pinto?". I am not sure what I want to do. Part of me still says to do the V6, and use whatever else off of the Mustang I can. The other part says wait for the Cleveland to happen. Problem with the latter is it may never happen.

I'm looking at using lots from the Mustang. I know for a fact that the dash will NOT fit. Been there done that. Well, it fits if you are willing to move the doors back about a good foot so you can get in the car. And you'd have to drive it from pretty much the back seat. But I am thinking maybe the instrument cluster, the heat/ac, etc. Not sure just how big the underdash part of the heater stuff is, but it would be nice if I could use it since it is available. Maybe the bucket seats, but I found out tonight that the driver's seat does not move back and forth, which is the main thing I had wanted to use them for. Has a tilt column, kind of ugly but then so am I.
Maybe I'd be better off just taking the engine out and selling the rest. Put the other 3.8 in it (in the trunk) so it is a complete car and scrap it.

Heck, I don't even have a clue if the 3.8 is feasible. I wouldn't even be considering it if it wasn't here and free.

Sometimes I think I should just let the Pinto go. Being broke is a bad thing when you want to play with cars. Being depressed and off the meds doesn't help either. But that goes back to being broke.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dianne

Quote from: russosborne on March 04, 2015, 07:32:03 PM
I got the Pinto off the slab and into the yard. Yuck. It's sitting on concrete blocks. does that make me a redneck?  ;D
Did not put it back together, I just used some of those furniture dollies. I had some pieces of a cabinet I had found being tossed, used them for the dollies to roll on when it got to the end of the slab. Ground is way too wet with all the rain we have had lately.

I am not really happy about this, but I guess I needed to get it done. It looks like I will be buying that wrecked Mustang for parts, so I need to put the current Mustang on the slab where the Pinto was. Going to try to do that tomorrow. At least that one rolls.

Redneck LOL Lots o rednecks out this way ;) Being one is NOT a bad thing mind you. Hope you have the farmers tan also!

You can sell parts off that other Mustang also and maybe recoup some of the money!

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

russosborne

I got the Pinto off the slab and into the yard. Yuck. It's sitting on concrete blocks. does that make me a redneck?  ;D
Did not put it back together, I just used some of those furniture dollies. I had some pieces of a cabinet I had found being tossed, used them for the dollies to roll on when it got to the end of the slab. Ground is way too wet with all the rain we have had lately.

I am not really happy about this, but I guess I needed to get it done. It looks like I will be buying that wrecked Mustang for parts, so I need to put the current Mustang on the slab where the Pinto was. Going to try to do that tomorrow. At least that one rolls.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, I just deleted the CL ad for the 8 inch rear. I think I am going to slap the leafs back together and bolt it all back on the Pinto so I can put some tires on the car to roll it backwards off the concrete slab for now. Still have the front end stuff, maybe slap that back on for front tires as well. I hate to go backwards, but I have that stuff and don't have the money to buy the stuff for a dolly. Still have the 4 lug 14 inch rims/tires that came with the car too.
I need to get it out of the way before I just call a scrapper to come get it. I'd hate myself later if I did that, but I tend to do stupid stuff when it is expedient instead of taking the time and effort to do something right at times. See my post on the 79 Pinto for a perfect example of being expediently stupid.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

russosborne

The casters on those Harbor Freight ones zoop. I bought those while working on my Lemans and they couldn't even handle the weight of a bare Lemans chassis. Once I bought some good casters they weren't bad. But honestly the $12 furniture movers work much better. But the casters on those won't work with gravel.
the Pinto has no suspension anyway.
I built a rolltissorie, not a rotissorie.  ;D
Thought I had more pictures. It hurt having to go back on the Pontiac forum. That was a lot of money and effort wasted. :'(
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dianne

Quote from: russosborne on February 25, 2015, 02:31:43 AM
Yes, you certainly are.  ;D

My wife gets mad if I chase my dreams.  :P Oh wait, those aren't cars. ;D Hell, I am too out of shape to chase anything anymore anyway.
Cars she doesn't have a problem with as long as we have the money.   

I am wanting to build a body cart for the Pinto so I can roll it off the slab and work on other cars and use it as a patio also. Not a big deal to do except for the money right now. I built what I called a rolltissorie for my Lemans back in Ohio so a cart is nothing. Just need some 2x6s and some hefty casters since it will be rolling on gravel. I tend to do this sort of stuff in wood, since I work well with it normally.

Russ

You built a rotisserie? I am talking to another shop about building one together :D Those rock!!! Building a test engine stand first :(

You get get rollers and put the tires on those and roll them around. We use those now on the cars that have engines pulled, they work pretty good actually! I have very heavy duty ones, but you can get them at Habor Freight for like $49.00 for two, but you really need 4. Car moves so easy on these!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

russosborne

Yes, you certainly are.  ;D

My wife gets mad if I chase my dreams.  :P Oh wait, those aren't cars. ;D Hell, I am too out of shape to chase anything anymore anyway.
Cars she doesn't have a problem with as long as we have the money.   

I am wanting to build a body cart for the Pinto so I can roll it off the slab and work on other cars and use it as a patio also. Not a big deal to do except for the money right now. I built what I called a rolltissorie for my Lemans back in Ohio so a cart is nothing. Just need some 2x6s and some hefty casters since it will be rolling on gravel. I tend to do this sort of stuff in wood, since I work well with it normally.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dianne

Russ, I understand about selling stuff. I have just sold my Spitfire and have 5 cars left LOL I want a 65 SS Impala I saw and want. I don't sell stuff good either, the convertible I have listed at 3500 and it books for 4100 and no calls. My Impala no calls and no calls on my truck. People are waiting on tax returns I think. So, when it comes to selling cars, it takes time sometimes. My mom, and I'm almost 60, is getting on my case because I'm doing cars and learning to weld LOL My kids are in their 20s, mid to late, and I still throw in my 2 cents all the time, I think it's something we all, past, present and future, get into.

Keep plugging and chasing your dreams, I certainly am!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

russosborne

Oh, I forgot.
Dianne, I don't want or need the 8 inch rear. I do need a 9 inch one though. I would really like to sell the 8 inch, could really use the cash, but I have it listed on CL here for sale or trade, depending on what someone wants to trade for. Looking for stuff for either the Pinto ( a 9 inch housing would be good) or the Ranchero (set of electric gauges or a 4bbl intake for the 2V Cleveland as an example) or some shop tools (could use an engine stand of the 4 legged variety or a hyd. press). But have not gotten any real interest.
I just don't do real well on selling stuff it seems.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I could use some spirits, too bad I can't drink anymore.

I won't say what he said, but my dad and I got into a screaming match about the Pinto, which he only saw last weekend. I think he has had one stroke too many. All he cares about these days is "value" and Rush Limbaugh. Heaven forbid I do something that I enjoy and have fun doing. I have been told by my mom to never mention that I am on "Obamacare" as he will go off and never calm down.
I will be avoiding him as much as humanly possible, and will just be polite when I do have to have contact with him. but as far as I am concerned, my real dad died a few years ago.this is just an alien in his body as far as I am concerned. to everyone else in my family I guess the change was slow enough and over a few years so they don't really see it, but having been gone for over 8 years to me it is like getting hit in the face.

I need to get something done to the Pinto. Maybe I can organize my days to have some Pinto, some Mustang, and some Ranchero time, as well as some work around the house time. Or maybe I will just stay a slug and get nothing accomplished. "Death where is thy sting" I think is the quote.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dianne

Sounds like you're getting your spirits up Russ. I hope this works out for you with everything. Hope you get to keep the rear end also!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

russosborne

Thanks.
I need to get my brother to commit one way or the other. Problem is he is CEO/President of a company and that takes up most of his time. Heart is in the right place, but...

Anyway, if you guys have read my other post I made today in the off topic section, it looks like working on the Pinto just took another step backwards. I have to get my time organized so I can work on all 3 cars now. I'd like to at least get the fuel cell installed since I have all the stuff for that. I'll even try to weld the mounting frame for it, since it is 1/8 inch angle it will be hard for me to burn through. And I do have the tubing to make the sub frame connectors, I can get them cut and fitted, then get them welded later one.

Problem with all of this is I am just flat out tired and over stressed and don't have the energy. But I had better find it soon.

Haven't heard back from the guy who wanted to trade for my 8 inch rear. I'd really rather have the money than what he had to trade anyway, right now. The seats he had would be good for the Pinto, but they would likely be taking up space for the next year, and they aren't uncommon so not getting them isn't a big deal.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Paying some fees in exchange for learning the ropes is probably a wise investment.  Good luck!
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

gee, been so long I am seeing the warning about this being an old topic.

It is hard for me to justify paying for a Painless or similar since wiring for me isn't a problem, but it may make more sense. I would probably get one of the universal ones if I do go that route. Definitely would be quicker using them. Just not sure their wiring would be up to my standards, I am a bit picky when it comes to that.

As you may have noticed I have posted my 8 inch rear for sale here. I also posted it on CL locally and have someone interested in trading for it. He has a couple of things that I listed as possibilities, a pair of aftermarket bucket seats and a tach and speedometer. The bucket seats would be for the Pinto, the gauges probably for the Ranchero, although I am not positive. It is an either or thing. Don't know if the seats come with the mounts. The speedometer is pretty beat up around the outside, not sure if that would show when installed. The tach is WAY more than I need for the Ranchero, goes to like 10 grand, and has a reset and stuff that I would never use. Could use them for the Pinto. If I got the tach/speedo for the Pinto I would be able to actually finish the instrument panel I started on a while back. I was really hoping to get a full set of gauges with electrical sending units for the Ranchero right now, I hate the mechanical ones I have. Haven't even hooked up the oil pressure, and the water temp is stopping me from removing the panel to redo the wiring on it unless I remove the sending unit from the block. I have to flush the cooling system anyway, so I may just do that. It is just that it doesn't leak and I hate touching it.

Decisions, decisions. I really really wanted cash or stuff I could use right away on the Ranchero, but then this might get me back on the Pinto a bit.

Although I may need to make some sort of dolly for the Pinto to move it off of the slab it is on. Looking at partnering with my wife's ex on buying and fixing up Mustangs (semi newer(1990's and up ones) at least for now) to sell. This would be in addition to the other flipping my brother, dad, and I are going to do. We are going to be either working with a licensed dealer who flips or get our own license and start doing auctions. We bought a car from this guy who does this for a living and may work with him for a bit to get up and running. He wants a fee for using his license and a set amount per car. I figure we would be paying for an education since he would be showing me the in's and out's of this. Yet to be determined though.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

I bought a Painless for my Nova(haven't installed it yet)and if you can read and pay attention they are re pretty much a no brainer, instructions are very detailed and all the wires are marked where they go the whole length. When it comes to electrical I'm about as dumb as it gets and even I can understand it.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I ended up mounting the relays for the headlights. Started getting late, so I didn't start the wiring for them.
Turns out I can use the headlight connectors from the Pinto. the low beams have the 3 terminal bulbs. And the high beams only have 2, but these will work, just have an extra unused terminal. Have to see if I can find who I bought these from. Either was on Ebay or Amazon. They were under $10.
The way these headlights are wired is interesting. Not what I would have thought. I bought one of those laminated wiring diagrams that have the wires in the actual colors. Big big help.

And then I ended up buying another one of the speaker boxes. This one works. I tested it in the parking lot of the PepBoys I bought it at. Now I just need to mount it. Decided on a different way. Going to cut the loop mount off of the tunnel that is for the bumper jack and set the speaker box there. Will have to find a way to mount it to the back wall, probably just cheap brackets.  They didn't have any 6x9s that were worth buying in my price range. Eventually I will come up with a better arrangement, but this will get me sounds for now at least.

I did take some pictures today. Need to download them onto this computer.  Although I only took pics of the Ranchero, no tools. Not even of the new horns. Can't see them where they are mounted without removing some stuff.

I feel bad about cutting the Pinto engine compartment harness, although it is just pretty much back to stock except for several wires that are now shorter. I will redo it completely when I get back to working on the Pinto. Like I said, I wasn't totally happy with it anyway.  With a V8 of either W or C config, the relays were going to have to move since they were on the radiator support where it will have to be cut away for a larger radiator.  And I didn't totally like the routing of the wires. I went the easy way when I did it, not really the best way.
Plus, I need to pull the dash and totally redo that harness.  Maybe I should just get a Painless or Ron Francis type wiring kit and start from scratch. I just have no experience with those and don't know if the wiring sizes are up to my standards. I am of the "bigger is better" point of view. Probably don't need to be, but that is just how I am.

I am also going to have to get a 9 inch rear end for it with a Cleveland engine.  Guess I should sell the 8 inch. Could use some cash right now. Have to put it back together first I suppose. Although maybe it would be better for potential buyers to be able to look at the gears and axles? Maybe I will just try it apart first. Probably will lose money on it, but that seems to be my standard operating procedure with car stuff.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne


That change in weather always tended to get my wife sick. Glad we are out of that. Miss lots of stuff from back there, but not snow and the drastic weather changes.

I've got horns on the Ranchero. Found a guy selling lots of Fox body stuff. Got a pair from the late 80's for 12 bucks. Almost a perfect fit, but had to flatten out the locking tab on the mount and rotate the horns just a bit. Was only about half an inch away from being perfect. Afterwards I realised I could have left that tab and just drilled a new hole for it, but I doubt if it will make a difference. That isn't going anywhere.

The steering issue is definitely that adapter cover. So for now I am running without it. Looks like crap, but works. I need to grind/file off about an 1\8th inch from the bottom of it. Not going to mess with it for now. Steering wheel is still off center. I found out my puller doesn't have bolts that fit the adapter. So that will have to wait for another day as well.

I'm on lunch break, after I eat I think I am going to do the relays. Or take a nap. Not sure which yet. I have enough cash to go buy another one of those speaker boxes. It's either that or buy some 6x9s and just have them laying on the floor behind the seat. Actually, I just had an idea. I could use "L" brackes and mount them to the back wall, down above the spare tire area. Hmmmm. Have to think about that. Not sure if I can get decent 6x9s for around $40, which is what the speaker box thing costs. Well, $41.99 or something.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on November 30, 2014, 09:06:00 AM

Dwayne-Snow? That sounds like a four letter word to me! One of the advantages to moving back here for sure.



Snow is definitely a four-letter word!  We got five inches on Wednesday; the day before Thanksgiving.  The temperature rose up into the sixties yesterday and today however, so it's all gone now.  Good riddance as far as I'm concerned!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Yeah, I can relate to driving projects, lol, going thru that with the Falcon, can't get the wife out of it, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Yeah, but I have seen every "project" car I have had the last 15 years be towed away. That is not something that can happen with the Ranchero.
Like today, instead of leaving it somewhat in the middle of working on it I cleaned it up and made sure it is drivable, (well, the steering would be difficult, but doable. I could always put the stock wheel back on in a few minutes if nothing else.). I just have to make sure that at the end of every day I do that.
Except for Sundays, which have been taken up with the wife's ex to some point, on my off days I am trying to get up around 8 and work on the car until about dusk.

I almost forgot. I bought an engine hoist today. got it for $75 off of craigslist. The only thing wrong with it is that it is missing the pins that hold the legs in position. I can use bolts for that if I can't find the pins. And I won't need it for a while, so I have time to hunt for them. This is one of the main reasons I wanted something with a bed. Hopefully I won't need to use it until it is time for putting an engine in the Pinto.

I have got to get back into the habit of taking pictures. Lots of tools, and a new car, that I need to document.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Kinda seems like a project to me, LOL.. :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Sometimes I am worried the Ranchero is going to become a project. But as long as I keep it drivable I am ok.

I spent a few hours working on it today.

I got the steering wheel changed, but I am going to have to take it off again. Something is causing it to be very hard to turn. I think it is the adapter cover, it looks like it is hitting the steering column. I thought it was far enough away, but once I tightened down the nut that holds everything on it wasn't.  It came with a spacer, but according to the instructions I am not supposed to use it. But I might have to.
Plus I didn't get the wheel on straight anyway, I didn't have the front tires perfectly straight so the steering wheel is off. And the fact that there is some play in the linkage or box doesn't help.

I also worked on the horn problem. Turns out the horn itself is bad. I tried to put an aftermarket oogah horn on it I have for my Pinto, but couldn't find a place to mount it that I liked. So I will just buy a replacement horn at some point.

Tomorrow will likely be the headlight relays and a junction block for them. Was starting to do that today, but I had to buy some sheet metal screws to mount everything. I would rather use nuts and bolts, but where I am putting them I just can't get to the backside to install the nuts.
Here is the bad part. I couldn't help myself, I took part of the harness from the Pinto that I had made and am using it for the Ranchero. Money is a bit tight right now, I will go back and replace the stuff later. Took one relay and one junction block. The horn circuit essentially. Although since I am going to have to get a replacement horn I may not use that relay. But I am going to use the junction block.
I would just use the relays that are for the Pinto headlights, but I have the low/high beam sockets already soldered on, and the Ranchero has 4 headlights, not 2. I was going to see about doing a Thunderbolt type of ram air, the one that uses the inner headlight locations, but on this year Ranchero, I would have to cut holes into the radiator support to do that, and that is not going to happen. So I am going to use 2 cheapo relays I bought from Summit Racing for the Ranchero headlights, at least for now.  I think. Tomorrow I may see things differently. I just hate to have to undo all the work I put into that harness, but maybe I should. Better to use the best stuff on the driving car, and then re-buy the good stuff later on when I get back to the Pinto. I could do that harness better as well, there were a few things I didn't like about how it ended up.
I do want to replace the headlight sockets, but that will have to wait. Not sure if they even make the 4 bulb type in the type of material that I got for the Pinto. Something to start looking for I suppose.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

I went to that one once, it was a nice gathering just a bit far to go from my place all the time, used to go to Superstition show that was less than 10 minutes away from the house.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Art-not the Pavillions. This one is at a Kmart at 67th Ave and Bell.
I need to go the the Pavillions though and see how it is going. I used to go there off and on for a while about a dozen years ago when I had my 69 Mustang project but haven't been there since. I'm not sure how a driver like mine would be accepted there.

Dwayne-Snow? That sounds like a four letter word to me! One of the advantages to moving back here for sure.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on November 29, 2014, 10:44:24 PM


Went to the local car show tonight. Found out that it ends about the time I got there. We ate first, next week we won't. I can't get there before about 7:15 pm. But I did meet another 72 Ranchero guy, although his is waiting on a 351C to be finished before he can drive it. Didn't see any Pintos, but most cars had left before we got there about 8:30.  :(
Russ, did you go to Pavillions?, that's every Sat lot of nice machinery there.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Too bad you were late to the car show but, since it's a regular event, now you know!  Actually, a car show sounds like a lot of fun.  We don't have any around here this time of year; especially with snow on the ground. Will have to wait until Spring (sigh).  Hope you are having a great weekend.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I have had a crazy thought about what engine to put in the Pinto.  8)
I truly am thinking of putting a 351C in it now. The Ranchero has a 351C and a C4. And it is a ton of fun.
Just think what that would be like in a Pinto, only with the 4V version.  :o ;D
Although I would prefer a manual trans, I could live with a manual valve bodied auto.
With the Ranchero being my daily driver, I can go wild with the Pinto since it will be a weekend fun car only.
OF course, at the rate I am going it won't be done before I am 65 or more.

Went to the local car show tonight. Found out that it ends about the time I got there. We ate first, next week we won't. I can't get there before about 7:15 pm. But I did meet another 72 Ranchero guy, although his is waiting on a 351C to be finished before he can drive it. Didn't see any Pintos, but most cars had left before we got there about 8:30.  :(
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.