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Automatic Wagon
Date: 06/14/2019 11:22 pm
1971 2.0 valve cover
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instrument cluster,4sd trans crossmember,2.3 intake
Date: 08/26/2018 06:23 pm
1971 Pinto Runabout turn key driver

Date: 07/01/2019 12:23 pm
Wanted Type 9 5spd Transmission
Date: 07/04/2017 03:26 pm
WTB Manual Transmission Clutch Pedal for '78
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Pinto drive train

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1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

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1976 Pinto

Date: 10/24/2017 02:00 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Well, just about to get started on my 79 hatchback-long

Started by russosborne, June 23, 2010, 04:44:42 PM

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Bigtimmay

When i bought my engine hoist it didnt come with a leveler either so i bought one from harbor freight and used it only one time LOL guess i just like doing stuff the hard way.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

russosborne

Forgot. A guy at work is supposed to give me a piece of chain for my engine hoist tomorrow night so I can pull the engine and trans out this weekend. I bought the hoist used(barely) and it didn't come with any chain or leveler. Just the short section of chain that the other chain attaches to. Would prefer a leveler since I am doing this alone, but I am used to dealing with that sort of stuff. Just takes longer. I will get a leveler when I am ready to reinstall whatever engine is going back in.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks. I ended up using some gas and it worked pretty good. Still need to get some rags. I used a couple of older t-shirts that I haven't worn in a year or more. Wife didn't like the color of one of them anyway. :-)

Did I mention I have no patience? I moved the Pinto into the garage after cleaning the floor, and took the hood off and the battery out. No pictures yet, but I did get my camera and got it charged overnight. I wanted to do more to the car, but decided I really needed to take pictures, so I know where everything goes in a year or so. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dave1987

Glad to hear you got the pumpkin separated! When I finally get an 8" to do a 289 upgrade in the 78, I'll keep this all in mind.

Honestly.....My dad and me use a great "solvent" to clean up oil messes from our car projects on the garage floor...

Gasoline!

I know it's not supposed to be used as a solvent, but it does a great job with removing any residue and if you get to the spill/drip quickly it doesn't get the chance to soak into the concrete. Giant metal drip pans have come in handy through out the years, we have three of them.

Just be sure to crack the garage door so you don't fumigate the garage. If you have your furnace in the garage like my parent's house does, it's even more important to do so to ensure the fumes don't ignite when the furnace kicks on!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

russosborne

Well, there are zoning laws, but I meant that I get to the point where I either lose interest or don't have the money to finish, or like the II I just had scrapped I find that it just is too much for me to do. In other words, I screwed up.
Although since we just rent here, I need to keep everything like this in the garage away from the landlord's eyes.

I did manage to get the pumpkin off tonight just now. Got home and found that there were those copper washers on the studs. Other than one they were pretty easy, bent them up and used tin snips. The one came off, then I realized that there was still just a bit of a ring left, just enough to hold the pumpkin on. but with a pry bar that problem soon disappeared. :-)
Of course there was still some gear oil in it, so I made another mess just after I had cleaned up most of the first one. sigh.

At least now I can plan on getting the Pinto into the garage tomorrow night. If I can find enough rags of some sort to clean up the newest environmental disaster on the garage floor.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dave1987

Oh boy, do you live in one of those states where you can get your project car towed due to it being considered and "eye-sore"? ::) ::)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

russosborne

Dave, that sounds like a good plan. I have an engine hoist, so pulling the engine/trans won't cost anything. Well, I do need a chain or leveler(preferred) for the hoist, didn't come with one.
I am hoping to be able to upgrade to a later 2.4 with efi, and maybe a 5 speed trans. I really want the efi, at least. I am hoping to be able to find a rusted out Ranger cheap. Seen quite a few, but you always see the stuff when you don't have the cash. Otherwise I will go through the original engine. The auto trans needs some work, it is slipping a bit. I either want to go to a 5 speed or at least an A4ld or something with overdrive. I drive a lot on the freeway.

No matter what, I just want to make sure that this car doesn't end up getting towed away because I can't finish it. Had that happen too many times, sometimes my fault, sometimes not.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dave1987

Here's what I would do russ...

Pull the motor, get the car on stands and pull the tank, lines, axle and everything you can. Get underneath the car done and then go to the engine compartment to get that done. That way the undercarriage and the engine compartment blend well. Then you can put the tank and lines back in, install the new axle, and drop the car to the ground again.

Since the car will be on the ground, it will then be easier to install the MII dash since you won't have to CLIMB into the car to get to the tough spots under the dash. Believe me, having the car on the ground for dash work is SO much easier than having it on stands! I've done that before, it's not fun!

Once you get the dash in, put your new steering column in, this will be easier with the engine removed, giving you more room to work with when lining everything up and connecting the steering rack again, you can even SIT in the engine compartment! :D

Once you have all that done, the BIG stuff is out of the way and you con concentrate on doing the motor RIGHT! If it were me, I would strip the block, take it to a shop and have it boiled out, have then shave the top, same thing with the head, then paint it. Once that's done build it all back up to how you want it, again this will be easier to do now since you have all of the CAR done and you can concentrate.

When finished, drop the motor and transmission back in, connecting the drive line, wiring, fuel lines, gauges, etc. and start her up! :D

That's what I plan to do with my 78 when the motor dies again.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

russosborne

Well, garage is clean. Except for the work bench. haven't gotten my tools organized yet.
Started tearing down the 8 inch rear from the departed II. Should have gotten my tools done first, but patience has never been a virtue of mine. As soon as I get it fully apart, the Pinto can move in. Of course there is a problem, I posted about it in the General Help section.

And no, I didn't take any before or during pictures of the rear. See above about patience. I need to get my camera charged up. I promise I will take pictures of the car as I go along.

Can't decide what to do first. Part of me wants to pull the engine/trans and start cleaning up the engine compartment. Part of me wants to start working on swapping the II dash and steering column in. Another part wants to put the car on jack stands, pull the tires, gas tank and lines, and rear end off and start working on the bottom of the car. Still not having taken a real good look at the bottom, not sure that I will be doing that first. The last part of me wants to do all of the above all at once. I kind of want to keep the car within say a week of being at least rollable/steerable in case something comes up, but I don't know what could come up. Dropped the insurance on it and won't be renewing the registration, so no real point in keeping it driveable. But I also don't want to get it so far apart that I feel overwhelmed.
I have a slight tendency towards ADD, so concentrating on just one thing for very long is somewhat difficult. Plus, taking things apart tends to be the most fun part to me. So who knows right now.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

YAY! Mustang is gone and I sold the tires.
So now I need to clean the garage and get my stuff organised so I can start on the Pinto.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

you wouldn't want this one. it is rusted so bad that the driver's side upper control arm came off the crossmember, with part of the crossmember still attached.
Would be a good candidate for putting on a 4X4 frame or something. :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

blupinto

OK is someone removing my posts?!  I put in a reply yesterday afternoon and now it's missing. >:(

Russ, if I was nearby I would adopt your MII. They are getting pretty rare and I've always wanted one. ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on June 23, 2010, 07:19:46 PM
Well, so far my personal black cloud is still right above me.

The guy didn't make it today to get the II out of the garage. sigh.
Maybe tomorrow.
And the guy buying some rims/tires from me didn't show either.
double sigh.
Russ

Your luck sounds like mine :rolleye:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, so far my personal black cloud is still right above me.

The guy didn't make it today to get the II out of the garage. sigh.
Maybe tomorrow.
And the guy buying some rims/tires from me didn't show either.
double sigh.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Supposedly somone is coming to tow away the II in my garage, so once that is gone and I can clean up from the mess it made I can pull the Pinto into the garage and get going on it.

Not going to be a quick job though. No real money to spend at this point.

Plan is to tear it down(free), look for and remove rust(free, unless I have to replace stuff), put the 8inch rear from the II on the Pinto(free, if you don't count what the II cost me originally), see if the II dash I took from the II will fit (with or without mods)(again free), if the II dash fits see if I can use the II steering column(free, and it can be converted to a tilt fairly easily using a granada tilt column),
make subframe connectors(not free, but hoping that I can use a piece of rectangular tubing I bought years ago for one side at least), clean and redo engine compartment(free, couple of cans of paint maybe, unless I go the por-15 type of stuff).

Things that will cost money are: brakes and suspension. Took off the front tires yesterday to put some others on(selling the set of 4 that was on it when I bought it) and saw some scary stuff. Rotors totally shot, most rubber stuff looked shot. Was going to redo the stuff anyway, but didn't realise it was this bad. Some rust(not anywhere near as much as on the II) in the front area. Bottom of battery tray gone. Looks fine from under the hood. I would really like to move the battery to the back, but am leary since this is a hatchback. Going to see if I can come up with a box that vents out the bottom, or similar.

Gas lines need redone. Need to buy tools for that. Having summit racing 10 minutes away is nice. :-). Would like the really nice Eastwood set, but don't have a couple of hundred dollars to spend. Got to pull tank and see what shape it is in. I don't think it has any leaks.
Needs lots of body repair. I hadn't realised until yesterday just how bad the quarters had gotten. the rear corners of the wheel well openings are totally gone. The rest of the openings are pretty rusty as well. Both doors are very rusted. So is the hood. One fender is still bent from the deer last year. Not real sure how good the other one is. I am really interested in using the bumper cover/spoiler thing that Map351 is making. Otherwise will look into shortening the bumper shocks at least.

Hoping to find a 2.3 with efi cheap. Would like to get the 5speed manual trans also. But that is a not free or cheap thing, so it is way at the bottom of the list.

Think that is if for major stuff. Should keep me busy for a couple of years.

I'll get some pictures and update this as things get moving.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.