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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Is there a demand for 71-78 Pinto dashpads?????

Started by sscmustang, July 01, 2009, 08:38:27 PM

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dga57

Becky,
I knew about the rear-end problem with the wagon.  What happened to Wildfire?

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

75bobcatv6

I would have said the same but i didnt want to sound cheap. I want a quality part so im willing to pay whats needed for it. If i have the cash maybe i can swing a little your way to help (if i am able)

blupinto

Wow. Didn't see that one coming... thank you Crazybry! I'm sorry I did sound like I had a meltdown of sorts but I didn't like being accused of lowballing or being cheap (I prefer thrifty!) Thank you for those who aren't so hard on me. Sadly now I have both my beloved Pintos down and have no cash to get 'em fixed- and one's fixing might be under $50. When it rains it pours...  :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

Crazybry79

A new dash pad??  With todays techknowledgy?  SOLD!!!   Cost...well we'll figure that out on next months credit card bill!


Email sent!

BTW, Becky, you shouldn't "keep your mouth shut".  IMHO, the thread was started to see what people were willing to pay.  You spoke your mind, and thats what you were willing to pay.  Good for you!  Would I, personally, be willing to spend more....well, possibly, but thats not you, and I respect the fact that you would only be willing to pay $XX.xx. Thats the point of getting opinions. And for anyone who shunned you, well, shame on them.

Anyway, back to point, yes, Id be interested !
Why do you park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway?  A cargo goes by ship, a shipmeny goes by truck.....You have a pair of panties, but just one bra......

pintoman2.0

SSC Mustang,

Thanks for your work on our behaff. I will send an e-mail to them after I finish this post. A couple inputs:

First, those glove box lids look sweet! Would it be possible to get one in a real shiny, almost metalic gold color? I have a 78 Ghia, dark blue w/ gold roof and interior. I am also looking for the vinyl for the roof.

Second, Gas tanks. I had a guy that wanted to buy one of mine for his 79 but all I had was 71-77. In 78 they changed slightly. On the early models the seam was flat with the top of half of the tank and the sender was flat on the front of the tank I think. The 78-80 has the seam below the top of the top half, meaning there is a rounded rise to the top half, and the sender was on a 45 degree plane. I don't have the pictures any more but if you put the two next to each other you can see it. But like I told him, the hangers could be modified and unless the Pinto Club adopts MCA judging rules, no one would know but you.

P

Harvestgold

Quote from: sscmustang on July 01, 2009, 08:38:27 PM
Hello Pinto folks. Scott from SSC Enterprises here. This is my first post as Im new to your forums here. Some of you may have heard that the Mustang IIs will soon have a reproduction dash pad available. I have been in contact with the manufacturer and have just recently sent them a Mustang II console lid for them to look into reproducing. Well yesterday I got a call from them saying that they had the first prototype ready for test fit and were sending it to me. I had only sent the lid about 3 weeks ago to them. WOW. Now getting to the subject of Pintos which of course is what you folks are interested in.....I have an NOS dashpad for a 73 Pinto. Am I correct in saying it will fit 71-78 Pintos? Is there a demand for these dashpads? Can you folks prove that demand. I am willing to work with the manufacturer to supply them with this NOS dashpad for the sake of having them reproduced for the Pintos. I have already asked them if they have an interest. They will certainly look into it if there is a demand. Im putting the ball in your court to somehow prove a demand and get them made. I will help in any way I can. Its taking me awhile to get used to navigating this website so I apologize if I dont respond to this post alot. But put your heads together and see what you think is the best way to prove demand. I dont want an e-mail blitz on myself or the manufacturer at this point. Just see what you can come up with. Maybe toss around and come up with a workable price that you would pay for the pad but you have to be realistic. They will have alot of time,money and effort into making the tooling for a dashpad. Its alot harder to make than a console lid. Work your magic folks!
:o

discolives78

Quote from: discolives78 on July 09, 2009, 12:53:12 PM
Well, I can tell you first hand that I'm almost as cheap as they come. It is hard to justify spending $400 on a dashpad for a car that 'blue books' at $600-3,000. I only paid $300 for the car (remember that was 6 years ago), so most of the money went to running gear. You have to want it bad and know you'll get the pleasure from owning and driving your car and not resale. Hopefully the interest is there, and they'll be made. What kind of quantity should be necessary to keep the price between $200-250? I'm afraid if it goes over that, people will continue to make do with the molded plastic cover at $75. We have over 5000 members, it seems like you should be able to sell at least 500 pads (10% of members)? In my experience, this isn't a commonly available 'perfect' used part at any junkyard, and restoration attempts don't always pan out.

Just my $.02 :)

Chuck :afro:




I think a lot of us think that... :)


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintopimp

What I'd like to know is if this company does decide to produce dash pads what will the approx. retail cost be?  Reason being try not to take offense here as I would be in the same bucket here unless I was doing a restoration.  Most Pinto owners I know arent going to spending $400 on a dash pad any time soon.  Still Just dashes will do a excellent rebuild on using your core for $350 to $400.  For example even on my 71 half hatch which is a pretty nice low mileage car, a $60 dash cap off ebay would be a great option for me and would most likely be my choice.

Here's something to chew on as well.  This ebay auction closed just today for an NOS dash pad: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160349687272&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A1123  

With that I'd say it's to say that $225 is about all people would be willing to pay.  It's seems that time and time again I continue to see a $30 carpet dash cover on most cracked dashes.  Don't get me wrong I'd love to see parts reproduced too. 
1973 Yellow Wagon
1972 Brown Wagon
1972 Red Runabout
1979 Runabout
1972 White Wagon
1971 Red Runabout
1971 Sedan
1974 Runabout
1972 Blue Runabout
1972 Red Wagon
1973 Chesnut Squire
1973 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Squire
1972 Yellow Turbo Wagon

Known as "the flipper"
Co-Owner of B&B's Used Pintos ;)

discolives78

I couldn't get e-mail link to work ??? it let me complete the message but said there was an 'error in sending'


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

pintoguy77

Id probably pay around $100 for a dashpad.Mine is pretty good although it has one hole that was filled in.People are paying around $120-#150 for a 71-73 mustang dash and theyre bigger than the pinto dash.I hate those dash covers they have for covering pinto dashes.Doesnt matter how you glue em,they still come peeling off around the speedometer bezel.Go ahead,make a repro dash for a pinto,send it to me in any color and i'll paint it myself.God i love my pinto.

russosborne

Well, I would gladly tell them I would buy one, but since I own a '79 and they aren't going to make one to fit my car, there is no point. :-(
Plus, for me as well as others, there are a lot of things I would be buying if I had any extra money before I would buy a dash pad. That would be one of the last things on my wish list right now.
What is that old saying? Something about putting diamonds on a pig, or something. :-)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

skunky56

Hi guys I work for a company called Thunderbird Headquarters we sell parts for 1955-1966 T-Birds. We have been dealing with Universal Urethane (Dashes Direct) for years. They make our 58-63 dashes they fit well and look great. I will give our rep a call and see if we can get anywhere with our Pinto dashes I do have samples to send if need be. I'll keep you informed.
Paul
77 Starsky/Hutch 2.3 Turbo A4OD Sunroof
78 Wagon V6 C3

75bobcatv6

Scott feet are Very wet at this point for me, Seeing as ive sent a couple mails now. End of the week I might send another. (I hope they dont mind that )

Scott Hamilton

Send those emails guys-
Weather or not you believe they will sell or not, lets get these to market so that some can buy them now and they will be available for all of us in the future.

Maybe the prices will be driven down as demand and other manufactures play, but we will never know unless we all get our feet wet.
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

pintoautocrosser

I'd pay 200-250 for one i'm just not ready right now.  in a year or 2 I'd be ready.

discolives78

These are all good talking points. I guess that's how decisions are made and demand/price are set. Hopefully, the usual 'trickle-down' thing will work and a thou or two pads will be made, and if they all don't sell, we'll see some of them on e-bay and get a chance at a bargain in a couple years.( ;D)

Chuck :afro:

P.S. Thanks Dwayne :) sending a pm with bigger pic of that car


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

r4pinto

Quote from: blupinto on July 11, 2009, 07:30:49 PM
I objected to the name-calling and thinly veiled insults. I will probably never be able to blow that kind of money on a dash pad. My own Pintos both need new paint jobs and weatherstripping LONG before I get a dashpad- I'd rather have a cracked dashpad than a rusty car! Again, I alone pay the bills at Crackerbox Palace and the $50 was a guess, not a dictation of what the DPs should cost. Anyway I'll say no more about it (unless the insults fly again).

I completely agree. After the insulting started I chose to keep my mouth shut. Didn't wanna say something I would regret. Heck, if I had money I wouldn't be fixing up my rust bucket but would have bought a Pinto worth fixing, instead of one that has some serious cancer.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

blupinto

I objected to the name-calling and thinly veiled insults. I will probably never be able to blow that kind of money on a dash pad. My own Pintos both need new paint jobs and weatherstripping LONG before I get a dashpad- I'd rather have a cracked dashpad than a rusty car! Again, I alone pay the bills at Crackerbox Palace and the $50 was a guess, not a dictation of what the DPs should cost. Anyway I'll say no more about it (unless the insults fly again).
One can never have too many Pintos!

popbumper

Well thought out, well said, and within reason. RESTORATION, as you say, costs money. Restoration parts like this are never going to be within everyone's reach - it's just a fact.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

71hotrodpinto

Have to say a few last things on this cost issue.
I cannot "afford" anything for my car. I have to sacrifice to pay for things that i don't really need. Its a hobby and its what helps keep my sanity, or whats left of it.
When i look at a dash pad replacement and it says $250 i say "wow someone is making parts for our unloved cars! YAHHOOO!!" then i just say "when i can, i will". I need some rear seals for the rear windows. No one makes those and i tell u if someone did Id buy those also. Id pay a reasonable price for those as well. I figure that they would run about 350 for all three. Probably 150 for the rear window and 100 a piece for the sides.

We need to stop complaining about price when we are restoring our cars. Restoration is very expensive because the manufactures aren't making 1,000,000 of said parts. They will probably make a couple hundred and hope they sell. Then if they don't? Guess what, no one will follow suit on other parts for our cars. "well those parts didn't sell and we lost our @#$%)* . SO don't bother with your parts." etc.

I fully understand the love of the pinto and the cheap cost of getting a "running" car that someone is off loading. But you cant really expect any parts for our rides to be cheap to restore said car.

Having said that some stuff goes out of sight on ebay ill admit. But its all about supply and demand the only reason that 71-73 NOS grills were going for near $200 was because there were a few people wanted to pay that and that NOS stuff wont be made again.



95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

phils toys

I agree it would be nice to have a replacement  dash  but as with most all of us we are on limited funds. that is why i started with the capret cover for my dash then replaced it with the plastic cap. for a good replacement $150-200 is closest to a price i can live with . but would have to save up for an expense  like that. befor i put the cap on  i would have jumped quick at the replacement pad but now it is closer to the bottem of replacement parts  . Carpet and door seals (all of them) are closer to the top  for me it is just a toy and everyday life comes first. YES mine is  mostly for shows
Doing research  an original back in 1980 would have been $90.40 from a dealer. now they are way over $400
if you can find one.
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

71pintoracer

I think we are all in the same boat as far as the economy goes, everyone I know has taken a hit, me included. I get paid flat rate, meaning I get paid when I fix a car, not when I walk in the door and punch the clock. No cars to fix, no pay. :(
That being said, a $200.00 dash pad is something I would like to have, but I can live without it. However, it would make a nice Christmas present!! ;D
The other side of the coin is, these are and were cheap cars. Although the value of a pristine Pinto is pretty good, you can still pick up a cheap Pinto. I paid 100 bucks for my '71, and I got my cruiser free, for fixing an a/c on an s-10. What I'm saying is, $200.00 for a dash pad on a '70 Boss 302 Mustang is a drop in the bucket for someone restoring one, whereas on a Pinto, it may be a luxury item. But it would still be nice to have, and well worth 200 bucks. My .02 :D
(BTW Chuck, love the pic of the cruiser in your posts, just put it on my desktop! :laugh:)
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

sscmustang

Please folks also keep in mind that this isnt necessarily what you can AFFORD right now, but what you would be willing to pay when the time came to possibly purchase a repro dashpad. This doesnt have to be right now. Im sure hoping that things will turn around for everyone in the next year. Sooner would be better. But everyone isnt gonna purchase a dashpad right away if they were made available. Just think what you would realistically be willing to pay if you had the funds or could save them up and purchase one.

popbumper

Quote from: blupinto on July 09, 2009, 05:22:27 PM
No, Chuck. You weren't the one who blasted my suggestion and indirectly called me cheap. I'm a survivor.  ;)

 Becky, if you were referring to my post, there was nothing meant by it. I did not call you out by name, and I am not calling anyone anything indirectly. I am under an impression we are here for a common cause, though opinions and realities differ. You cannot help your $50 budget as much as I cannot afford a $600 "Just for Dashes" restoration of a pad, which, there is some guy here on the board who spent just that. Good for him - do you think that by mentioning it I am doing him a disservice in any way? I hope not, that's ridiculous.

Chris

 
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78



A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

No, Chuck. You weren't the one who blasted my suggestion and indirectly called me cheap. I'm a survivor.  ;)
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pintosopher

Howdy all,
I'm not here to stand in judgement of anyone or their opinion. Let's just let the facts of free market economics decide how the laws of supply and demand work here. If we as a group of special interest car owners , can't find replacement parts, Someone will find a price point at which the part can be sold at a reasonable profit REGARDLESS of who or where it's made.
Would you buy a DASH Pad from CHINA? Does it offend you that the outsourcing of manufacturing is costing us jobs in the U.S.? VW owners know all about this!
If your personal financial situation is Dire (Mine is too!) , you do what you must to survive and THEN YOU GO VOTE UNTIL YOU CORRECT THE PROBLEM!
I feel for Becky and any dutiful public employee here in CA , but my car stays pickled until this insanity releases its stranglehold on employment. If it weren't for the fact that I can't justify the expense of Light rail passes ($100  per person a month for me, free to state workers in Sacto)I would pickle my Truck and GTI and laugh at Arnold and Boxer and Pelosi and their Greening of California.
I won't bitch if a real businessperson can't operate in CA , and I'll buy my tires online and a bunch more. But I also won't complain about the pricepoint of parts for rare cars. Face it , we are a bunch of budding car collectors that haven't reached our full income potential, and we suffer until the real economy can return.
My two cents, worthless due to "stimulus"

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

discolives78

Holy cow Becky! :hypno:

I'm so sorry! :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:

I thought I started that out with something like this:

Quote from: discolives78 on July 09, 2009, 12:53:12 PM
Well, I can tell you first hand that I'm almost as cheap as they come. 

I'm living on $200 in foodstamps and no other assistance. I have dog food to scrounge up as well as smokes, gas, insurance, etc.

I have to sell my favorite car ever and use the money very frugally so I can come up with my own computer, another car and 6 mos of car insurance. This so I can endure the next 3-4 months until I may get general assistance of $170 per month to last until I may get disability in aproximately a year according to my attorney. We've all been hit hard, I'm afraid. :-\

Chuck :afro: :coolrasta:

P.S. I drive a Pinto partly because I don't want to pay $300 for a clutch and $200 for alternators and starters. That's for Mercedes, Peug and Volvo owners. :rolleye: (not that there's anything wrong with that, no eurobashing intended, just the way it is. :drunk:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

Excuse me...

         I you folks think I'm cheap so be it. I made the suggestion of $50 because THAT'S ALL I CAN AFFORD for something that's purely aesthetics. I'm sorry if I'm a cheapo to you all, but I just took another hit in the paycheck thanks to bodybuilder-turned actor who doesn't belong in politics Arnold S. The economy is crap. Don't you think some of us "cheapos" would love to have $200 or $400 to spend on a dashpad!? I was asked for my opinion and I gave it, not thinking I'd be called names. Whatever.
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

Well, I can tell you first hand that I'm almost as cheap as they come. It is hard to justify spending $400 on a dashpad for a car that 'blue books' at $600-3,000. I only paid $300 for the car (remember that was 6 years ago), so most of the money went to running gear. You have to want it bad and know you'll get the pleasure from owning and driving your car and not resale. Hopefully the interest is there, and they'll be made. What kind of quantity should be necessary to keep the price between $200-250? I'm afraid if it goes over that, people will continue to make do with the molded plastic cover at $75. We have over 5000 members, it seems like you should be able to sell at least 500 pads (10% of members)? In my experience, this isn't a commonly available 'perfect' used part at any junkyard, and restoration attempts don't always pan out.

Just my $.02 :)

Chuck :afro:

P.S. I've run the gamot of import and cheap domestic cars too. Alot of us don't adjust for inflation and increased demand as the cars get older, meaning I still think I should be paying 1994 prices for parts and cars. A clutch kit for an 82 Peugeot cost $300, Pinto's is 1/3 of that. 20-25 year old cars that are of 'particular interest' but not mainstream hot-rod material often get owned by 'cheapskates' because we don't want a $400 car payment every month either. :drunk:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.