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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Is there a demand for 71-78 Pinto dashpads?????

Started by sscmustang, July 01, 2009, 08:38:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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Runabout75

Would definitely be interested in a replacement for my dash. Will try the email as well.
Runabout75

dardave

Scott,
    I currently own 4 early Pintos. They all need dash pads which I would glad buy for all 4 cars if they were reasonably priced. So is there a demad for dash pads. Absolutley! Thanks - Dave

71pintoracer

70-75 bucks out the door is a great deal for a custom cover in my opinion, and would probably suit most people here. Unless you are doing an original resto, most just want something that looks nice and not "tacky".  Face it, although we love our Pinto's, they are not high end and highly sought after collectibles. $450 is more than a lot of us paid for the entire car to begin with, (me included) and while I fully understand supply and demand, that much money for a dash pad is out of my reach. 75 bucks? That I can handle! Thanks 78_Starsky, and keep us updated.  :)
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

powderblue76

Wow, quite a thread.
As a guy who went from telling the wife a few years ago (before things went in the toilet) "..it's only money, I'll always make more.." to spending the last year (the is the anniversary of my last real check) pretty much unemployed, I can see both sides of this.
Best of luck to all of us in these trying times.
All we can do is love our little Pintos, and do what we can, when we can.

blupinto

I second that! Or is it third that!? lol.

Alberto, I think we all want our dash pads done right... not a very few of us. However, we shouldn't have to take out a second mortgage to get one "done right".


Like Chuck, this subject has left a bad taste in my mouth.  I hear what one side says, but I and a lot of others are faced with stark reality: priorities.  I want us to have no hard feelings towards one another because we all can't support a particular project. Sometimes we simply can't.  Just the same, I'll stand my ground but I'll still call you family. ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Quote from: beicholz on June 03, 2010, 04:02:17 AM
A little off topic, but following the debate above about Pinto as classic...yes or no...

I live in Hollywood and work in the film business.   My friends and employees drive Porshe's, BMW's and other expensive cars.   When they see the Pinto Runabout, they get a huge smile on their faces.  Everyone has a memory to share about a Pinto in their family.  Seeing a Pinto makes them happy.  Isn't that what life is about?  It's called "follow your heart". 

Collectively, we all do this because it brings us joy, mostly I'm guessing, because hearing a Pinto start up, shifting the gears, and "participating" in driving, rather than having 100 mini-computers do it for you is FUN.

Is the Pinto a classic?   In my mind, yes.   I believe values will go up.  If they don't, I'm left with the joy I've experienced on this board and driving my Pony.

No regrets!

Isn't that what life is about?


Extremely well said.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

beicholz

A little off topic, but following the debate above about Pinto as classic...yes or no...

I live in Hollywood and work in the film business.   My friends and employees drive Porshe's, BMW's and other expensive cars.   When they see the Pinto Runabout, they get a huge smile on their faces.  Everyone has a memory to share about a Pinto in their family.  Seeing a Pinto makes them happy.  Isn't that what life is about?  It's called "follow your heart". 

Collectively, we all do this because it brings us joy, mostly I'm guessing, because hearing a Pinto start up, shifting the gears, and "participating" in driving, rather than having 100 mini-computers do it for you is FUN.

Is the Pinto a classic?   In my mind, yes.   I believe values will go up.  If they don't, I'm left with the joy I've experienced on this board and driving my Pony.

No regrets!

Isn't that what life is about?

1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

78_starsky

I have just finished reading this thread, We, Angie and myself have started on a resto project. we have the dash pad off and the dash ripped apart. Ours is in preemo shape. however, we are doing a custom interior on our car build.  On a different thread I posted a question asking if all pads are the same size for years and was/have been told that 71-78 are all the same.

Now that we have our pad off we are going to be making a "custom" sewn aphostery cover.  The reason I am posting into this thread is because she and I have talked over the thoughts of making custom pads for sale.  She has many fine talents and one of them is "custom" work on both her industrial sewing machines. (I can post links to her work from one of her main specialties... custom tire covers)   What we want to do is make a couple extra covers as we make ours and give them away to one or two people on this web site to try them.  to test them and to see how they like them.  We were going to surprise you guys & gals when they were completed, however, now that I have found this thread I was compelled to write in here.

I will keep you posted as the project gets started. I have seen the high end fabric that she got today for them WOW... and what we were hoping to do was get a high quality "custom" pad cover made and sent out the door for about $70-75 + shipping.

With ours still being in perfect shape we can make a very good pattern. We have talked about how the best way for others to install them on there cars and figure(d) that the test person(s) will need to be a bit mechanically enclined to be able to glue and bolt the pad back into place on the car.

I see demand is here and it comes down to price.

cheers and will keep you informed.  casey  (if interest is here to see her other work let me know and I can post stuff)

discolives78

This whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth. Did anyone tally votes?

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Pintopower

Just dashes is the place to go. I had my Fiat 131 dash redone. 425 is a bargain for the Pinto dash. It cost me 1200 for the 131 but it is a huge and complex unit. There is zero market for a Pinto dash re-pop. A quality one will cost just as much as the just dashes one and no one will pay except for the very few that want it right.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

beicholz

I would definitely buy one.  Unless I can find one,  I am planning to have mine re-done at www.justdashes.com.  They have an amazing process that makes your existing dash like new.   However, it's not cheap: $425 for the dash itself and another $250 if you want them to take it out and re-install.

I also have a 1972 Karmann Ghia.   A manufacturer called KPGR starting re-making the dashes for just over $200.   Of course, there are many more Ghia's out there than Pintos, I believe.
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

FlyerPinto

disco,

As far as I'm concerned, everything is cool, I don't call folks names or attempt to degrade them with my posts. I just didn't understand the response my comments generated, or the situation behind them. Sorry things are going rough for you right now, but hopefully they will get better. Keep plugging away, it's really about the only choice we have. And don't think it necessary to justify receiving help when you need it from a system designed to provide that help with money you paid into it, it's absolutely unnecessary.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

discolives78

Agreed, blu, family.

Further clarification to previous comments:
Heart on sleeve: emotion is visible.
Wallet on sleeve: money is visible.
Heart is never worn on wallet.
Don't call me butter: a twisted memory based on me and friends 'wierd al'-ing Don't call me daughter IIRC by Pearl Jam.
Pintosopher: I understand about supporting American business and the degradation of our manufacture based economy, at least in my lifetime. I'm scared to death of what the future may hold for us as Americans, and as humans. I'm a big fan of the 70's Show. I remember the episode when PriceMart came to town and Bargain Bob's went under. The topic was $14 toasters, he couldn't buy them for that let alone sell them for that.

Some of us would like an American made toaster, but would also like bread to put in it.
I've lived under $30k my whole 20 years of working. I would have liked to make more than that, but that's as high as my talent and ambition took me. If you deliver pizza, you shop at Walmart so you can have a toaster and bread.

Please lets drop the namecalling as far as what we can spend. My situation: I'm out of work due to my health. For others, it's the economy. Right now, I have to stretch my gov't stipend of $450 as far as it will. I know others may disagree with me taking the money, but I did pay in involuntarily with the promise made that it would be there if and when I needed it. Well, I need it.

If you're uncomfortable with that and would like to do something to help, PM me and I'll give you my address and you can write me a check to help. I'm not asking for money, but...

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

Chuck, don't ever apologize for speaking your mind... I don't... that's why we live in this great country. For now, at least, we're free to speak our opinions. :D


You are correct. There is WAY too much name-calling concerning this subject, and I guess the name-call-ees may not understand the situation people like me are in...I do understand a little of where they're coming from (supporting a business that reproduces these hard-to-find parts so the business can continue to do so... but that give nobody license to be insulting or snotty.  But then, they're free to voice their opinions too.  But let's please not drag people down with names like cheapo and stuff.  We're family here.
One can never have too many Pintos!

discolives78

 I'm sorry and a bit embarrassed. I suppose I got too emotional (snippy) there. I don't want to be at war. I only joined the club to find others like me (with Pintos) and make friends.

I am sorry that I may have taken your situaton for granted and you may have not known mine.

I'm sorry that I made personal commitments that I later wasn't able to keep. It sucks to tell people you're broke.

I'm sorry if I seem bitter sometimes. That isn't what I was trying to get across. I have been trying , perhaps too hard at times and not hard enough at other times, to participate. Just to offer insight and food for thought.

I spoke here at first in support of repopping the pads. I had recent experience with this item as well as pertinent prices for every option out there.

Somehow we few have gotten way off target by talking of price and forgetting about the part. Perhaps that is my fault too for bringing up. I ask for your foregiveness if that is the case.

I think this wouldn't be our topic if we were out in the driveway with the hoods up.

If we met, you would see that I love and apreciate my car and others like it for so many reasons. I wish they were truly apreciated by everyone. Nostalgia is a powerful force, no doubt. One lesson I have learned from the Pinto experience is that mistakes will be made, and they may be forgiven, but are seldom forgotten.

I am thankful at this point that I can drive at all. I see people with more and less than me all the time. I agree, count your blessings, and I will continue to count mine.

Chuck

sorry no smileys, using a wii
please read as humble and sincere.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Pintosopher

Hey Guys,
This is a real touchy subject, but it's kinda llike religion & politics.. you must have latitude for the others perceptions, or we wind up at War !
We in this group love our Pintos, but not always for the same reasons. But we all Spend the same currency for our projects, in spite of perceived value of parts. If we can't pony (pun intended) the bucks for a new repro part, who's fault is that? Why do we have a Tax Burden that's out of control? Why isn't your total tax burden less than 2% of your gross income? As it was in 1948!
We can debate living within our means or we can debate why our incomes are depleted. If you think our Pintos are not worth the expense of Repro by a U.S. company, try owning cars in the state of CA! We would pay to not get hit with a Constant $80 to 100 bucks a year for a 25 year old car. It's not just restoration ,it's economic survival if you want to stay off the mass transit grid!

Count your blessings, And think hard about not paying fair prices for US made goods. Or keep shopping at Walmart &Target, and wonder if you'll ever get that New dash pad.

My 2 cents..

Pintosopher... Not union made, but US Sovereign...
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

FlyerPinto

Grunge was never my thing, but I do remember Parkay, being as I'm closing in on 50. I know you're right about the value of the cars, though I don't remember seeing yours for sale. I wasn't in the market, so I wasn't looking. You're right, there isn't much we do that will increase the value of our cars, but that was never the point. Not for me anyway. I never said people don't buy parts because they don't want to, I said people want the parts and then don't want to pay for them when they have a chance to get them, and then complain when the parts aren't available. It isn't the same thing. The idea that parts won't become more expensive because of low availability and increased demand is simply wrong, it is basic economics. Ten fenders can fetch $100 each, but a thousand fenders won't come anywhere near that value.  That being said, Pinto parts will never be truly outrageous themselves, but having someone restore them or fabricate them from scratch could easily be very expensive. Again, supply and demand will drive market value.

Our cars are not classic, they are old. That does make a difference. Maybe some day they will be more appreciated, but the vast numbers produced and the history of them tends to leave them a little overshadowed, even if there aren't that many remaining. But then, not many thirty to forty year old cars are exceptionally valuable anyway.   And you are correct, if someone is without a job and has lost their home, putting money into refurbishing a car is crazy, other than keeping it on the road to find work. If where someone lives is not conducive to keeping nice things, then again, not the best idea.

I do get the ponies quote, though there isn't a need to be snippy about it.

You're right about another thing as well, our club is very diverse. Lots of folks come and go, though the core tends to stay solid. A lot of good information out there. Hopefully some day you will find the part you seek at a price you are comfortable with.

I have four cars, two Pintos and a pair of Bobcats. The Cruising Wagon and the 74 Pinto hatchback have pretty decent dashpads, as I recall. I don't know about the Bobcats. What color did you need? When all this shakes out I intend to only have two cars, the Cruising Wagon and a Bobcat. One of the Bobcats is intended to be a parts car for the other, and I'm selling the 74 Pinto (11,000 original miles). I think the dashpads on the Bobcats are black, though one of them may be red.

I'm also going to interview a guy who owns a car lot that has three or four Pintos sitting on it. We may be working a deal with another guy to do some horsetrading (Pinto's a horse you know...) for parts. Let me know what year and color pad you need, and if he has one I'll grab it for you if you want me to do it. Just let me know what you're comfortable with price wise. If now isn't a good time, but I can get the part, I'll gladly hold it for you.

1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

discolives78

I just mean by "don't call me butter" that our diversity in the club is like the number of products referred to as "butter". It's an old song lyric by one of those grunge bands "Don't call me butter, my name's Parkay"

Sure, I would love a repro pad, but my 'solution' will have to do. There are alternatives to every need or want. I plan on keeping my car too, but it will never be a concours car. I've been driving Pinto's since I was 18, and now am 37. If you recall, I tried to sell my car last summer, It failed to fetch $1200 (my bottom line).  NADA values my car between $638 and $1338 (as of last Feb.) If I had $500 to spend, I'd have an nos carb, new exhaust, new carpet and one of those plastic dash caps from ebay. Yep, and it would still be worth between $638 and $1338.

Don't ever assume we're not buying parts simply because we don't want to. I promise not to stop you from spending your money on your car. For all I care, you can get your hood gold plated if you want. Where I live, if it's too nice, it disappears. I don't agree that parts should necessarily skyrocket just because they're old. If that is the common complaint among owners and they aren't resourceful enough to shop around or get creative, then by all means they deserve a dashpad that costs near the value of their entire car.

There is a real world difference between old and classic. That's coupled with an economic crisis which left many with no job and no house. The market is awash with project cars that ran out of money.

If wishes were horses, there'd be at least two ponies in my driveway too. was that one too cloudy for you to follow?

Do what you will, dashpad is off my list.

Don't lose any sleep over your decision.

Welcome to the Pinto Country Club of America!


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

FlyerPinto

Disco,

I get the idea that these are basic cars and will never fetch the big $$$ at an auction. But like dga57, my first car was a Bobcat and my second a Pinto Cruising Wagon, that's why I am restoring those cars. Figuring that I'm going to keep them for several years the investments aren't all that bad. And these cars, though relatively basic transportation (some of them were more basic than others) are pretty rare nowadays, so it is to be expected that things for them will be a) A little hard to come by; and b) A little more expensive because these cars are currently not highly sought after. If I were looking for cheap day to day transportation a Pinto would certainly work, it's just not why I have them.  I love the fact that I can pop the hood and actually work on the engine without feeling like I need a degree from MIT to understand what I'm seeing. There is a lot to be said for being able to change your own water pump, not to mention a certain amount of pride going along with the achievement. Sometimes you can't spend the money you want to spend on the parts you need, that situation comes and goes for all of us. But when resources become available for something so many people say they need, and then so few people will actually make the commitment that the opportunity is lost to everyone, it's frustrating. Especially when invariably people will then bemoan the fact that the parts aren't available, when they could have possibly done something to help change the circumstances.

You'll have to explain a couple of things to me. "Don't call me butter." I don't get that one at all. Not entirely certain about wearing your heart on your sleeve and not your wallet, either. If, by chance, you mean you won't spend money to be supportive of something you are in favor of because of financial circumstances, I understand.

dga57,

I received the final proofs last night, it looks pretty good. It should be on the way to the printer now, and if our luck holds out, it will be in the mail to everyone Saturday. Possibly Monday if they can't work the job in, but either way, it will be out soon.

Matthew
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

discolives78

I wear my heart on my sleeve, not my wallet. 8)

:afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

dga57

I agree.  I've been known to drop ridiculous amounts of money on cars in the past, but that was never my intention with my Pinto.  It appeals to me from a standpoint of nostalgia (my very first car was a Pinto) and, as Chuck pointed out, because of its simplicity.  I personally fing it amazing that its tiny 1600 cc powerplant has been propelling that tough little car around for 38 years!  Yeah, I want it to look decent when I go out for a ride, but it doesn't have to be perfect... it's never going to cross the block at Barrett-Jackson! 

As for the Pinto Times, I am perplexed by the low number of subscribers.  I know the economy is tough right now, but I would have expected no less than 10 - 20 percent of the members to subscribe.  It is certainly priced right, executed beautifully, and should be of interest to anyone and everyone who has an interest in these cars.  I would certainly encourage EVERYONE here to subscribe... it is well worth the cost.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

discolives78

I agree if you have it, use it. Unfortunately some of us are stuck "window shopping" for a myriad of reasons. I would have loved to have the red led display am/fm/8 track on ebay, but I didn't have $70 to drop, so I ended up with a salvage yard GM/Delco unit because I did have $20 to blow. sometimes we can't be too picky or blow it all on one part...

The other side of the coin is that these aren't Mach I's or Camaros, they're Pintos. It would be fine to throw $500 on a dashpad if the car fetched $50,000 on Barrett Jackson, but that just isn't happening.

Some of us love the cars because they were basic and inexpensive. That was the basis of it's conception, and that's how I use mine. It's not how fast, comfortable and shiny you go that matters. It's that you can go that matters. It was the concept behind Ford's first production car, the Tin Lizzy, and it should be true of modern cars too.

Don't call me butter :nocool:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

FlyerPinto

You know it seems the issue with Pinto parts is that many people say they need them, but when push comes to shove not many folks step up to the plate. I've taken this approach with my car (78 Cruising Wagon): I want it to be as close to new as what I can get it, without losing my ever-loving mind or my retirement. D & D Restorations in Covington, Ohio is about nine miles from my house. They could rebuild any car in the world to showroom new and gave me a rough estimate to do that very thing to both my old Mustang II and my Cruising Wagon. Each one would have come in around $50,000 total. If I had the money I'd do it. It might be crazy, but what the heck, if you have it, use it. In the meantime though, I can't spend crazy/stupid money on my car. But cars are like season tickets, if you want more or better, you have to pay for it. The triple stripe package for the cruising wagon (Hockey sticks some folks call them) is going to set me back about $1,000 including installation. After that, the pattern is something I can use to sell to other folks if I desire. The problem is not that I won't spend the money to do it, I know right now that I will as soon as the car is ready. The problem is that enough people have to be willing to do so, and someone has to be first. In this case, I will be.

I need floor pans, so I'm making my own. I bought a welder and a bead roller, and tomorrow I'm off looking at other things I'm going to need. I'm going to make patterns, and if someone wants a set, I'll make them a set and sell them to them for a reasonable price. But reasonable covers my investment, which at this point is $600 for the welder and bead roller, plus materials and my time, not to mention any other tools I'll need. I could go to someone else for this, but I need to learn, and then I'll never be looking for metal parts again. The same goes for battery trays. I need one good one, after that it becomes a pattern and some time and materials. Right now, how many folks would line up to buy floor pans and battery trays? Those two items come up frequently on this board.
What do you want, and what are you willing to pay? I can and will make both of them. If it becomes a case of making twenty-five, they would be less expensive. If it is a case of making one every other week, the per unit cost will go up.

We have 5,000 members on here, everyone wants the Pinto magazine, and I have 19 subscribers. It costs almost $800 to do the layout and printing. I'm so far in the hole it isn't even funny, but I love doing the magazine. But people need to step up. Manufacturers won't spend their money and time on design and tooling work if they can't make a profit on their efforts. When my dashpad needs redone, and it almost certainly will, I'll pay the extra money to have it done professionally because there isn't much other choice. If I could buy one off the shelf I would, but that isn't an option.

I apologize for rambling a bit (pain meds from surgery...) but as a group or club, we need to support the people who are willing to make parts for our cars (or publish magazines) or else we're all going to have to buy Mustangs and Camaros so we can have parts.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

D.R.Ball

Just dashes still will rebuild your dash pad and install a 3 gauge pod on top, if anyone will ask them. They also do the same for late model Mustangs etc....

Starsky and Hutch

i maybe able to find one nos one or two what color
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

kenbaker

I think there is a big demand.  You cant hardly find a pad in good shape.  I need two! Also folks on ebay would pay good money for them.

popbumper

The effort on repro dash pads at SSCEnterprises is dead. Scott sold me his "master" NOS unit a few months back. He stopped the effort on account of spotty/low interest and problems with his manufacturer.

Whether or not this will ever be done is not known, but it won't be done there.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

fordmastertech

61 Ford Starliner, 67 Mustang, 51 Ford F-1, 73 Ford F-100, 74 Ford F-100. Owner of A&A Automotive, Dealer for Vintage Air, American Autowire.

ilvmy76

Silvercat,
Nobody has a quote, this is something that was/is being pursued, don't know if it's a dead issue or not, I hope not. Has anyone heard any update on this?
worry does not empty tomorrow of it's troubles, it emptys today of it's strength!

SILVERCAT

Yes there is I am in need of new one for 1974 Pinto wagon.  need a quote for how much thank you.