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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

My 1977 Runabout

Started by Hobbesga, December 11, 2010, 06:49:24 PM

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r4pinto

I agree with Phil. I had to replace my radiator after I tossed a hammer in the garage & it went straight through it (non repairable). But when I replaced it I got a used one from a 74 Pinto & have had no problems with overheating at all. I would say just have the old one fixed. It will be cheaper if it can be repaired & will cool your car just fine.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

phils toys

i have a 76 with ac and the stock radiator is just fine
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Hobbesga

Okay, so I haven't been on here in a bit. I had some serious trouble with my computer and have had to break down and buy a new one. Now that I'm back online, I have a question. I need help with replacing some parts. I'm about to have to buy a new radiator to go in the car. The one that's in it now has some problems and is probably repairable, but I think I'd prefer to just replace it like I've done with everything else...

Some of my research has indicated that there's a problem with the cooling capacity of the stock radiators. Has anyone else found this to be true? Should I consider upgrading to a larger radiator, or in your experience has the stock radiator provided sufficient cooling on the little 4 cylinder engine?

dave1987

I painted my 78's engine compartment semi-gloss black with engine paint. It's holding up well, but the dirt IS visible when I don't keep up on the power plant cleanliness.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

skunky56

I agree with S&H paint it white I left mine white , it stays clean and hides the dirt well. Really no kidding it does.
77 Starsky/Hutch 2.3 Turbo A4OD Sunroof
78 Wagon V6 C3

Starsky and Hutch

If i was going to paint it .I`d use gloss black,,, flat will get glossy when oil gets on it ...and it will look patchy,, Id leave it the white myself .
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

Hobbesga



Just wanted to show that there's some progress going on...

Hobbesga

So...

Today I carried on with cleaning and painting suspension components. And then my carburetor rebuild kit arrived and I managed to complete that task before it got too late. I just wanted to throw this little tid bit out there for anyone struggling with a question I found myself perplexed by...

The original tag that was on the top of the carb identifying what model was in the car was long gone. So, when I went to order the kit for the carb I was torn between which kit to order. A kit was suggested elsewhere in the threads that would be usable to rebuild any carb on any Pinto. While that suggestion was certainly good information, I did find stamped into the base of the carb, just above where it bolts onto the gasket and riser. The stamp was on the face of the base in small numbers but showed that mine was model #R7950. I already knew that the base model of the carb was listed as a Model 5200 VV, but that small set of numbers helped me get more information and determine (with some doubt still) that the information shown in my Chilton's repair manual for the carbs was incorrect. The Haynes manual information appears to list the carb correctly.

Of course, I haven't cranked the engine yet to be able to check out how it runs. I'll definitely let you guys know if I find out that I'm wrong about which manual has the more accurate information. Then again, my engine has been bored over so the correct settings may be off from what's shown in the books.

I hope that little bit of info helps someone else out. Once, I get finished with the carb and some of the other parts I'll post some new engine picks to show how it's all coming together.

Then I have a question for you guys. I'm getting ready to prep for repairing the engine bay and do a little painting. The engine compartment was originally painted the same white color as the rest of the car's exterior. I'm going to lean toward not going back with the white, but instead painting the engine compartment a flat (or semi-gloss) black color to help hide some of the dirt. Plus, since I'm intending on using the black rubberized undercoating on the bottom of the car (once again, instead of the white) I think it'll make the transition a little easier on the eyes. The other option is to continue the undercoating into the engine area... Any ideas or suggestions on this?

Hobbesga

Well, I just wanted to throw a little update out there. I've got the car back up on the trailer and blocked up. I've dropped the front suspension and rack and pinion. I've also pulled the rear end out from under the car and started pressure washing it all off. I still haven't gotten any of my most recent orders in the mail yet, but I'm hoping to be ready to start painting the underside with some rubberized undercoating by the end of the weekend. Once everything starts going back together I'll try and get some good pictures of it. All of the pressure washing in the world still hasn't cleaned up the tunnel though, so I'll be on my back scrubbing until it comes clean.

I've got some more looking around to do, but I need to find some donor material for the passenger side inner fender. I've already got a plan on fabbing up a new battery mount, but I'm not sure whether I want to try and find a panel to cut and weld in place, or if I'll have better luck just finding some material to work with and banging out my own replacement.

If you've got any experience with the rubberized undercoatings, or with repairing that inner panel, I'd like to hear from you guys.

Oh, and I know I mentioned the remade water neck in a previous post. If you look close at the second engine pic I posted above you can see a really good shot of it.

Uh, I also feel obligated to mention that I painted my exhaust manifold with some of that high temperature black paint. Which has to be cured by baking it for and hour or two at either 400 or 600 degrees in an oven. Now I know that the can clearly indicates that this should be done in an outside oven, but who has an extra oven outside for baking parts? So, when I informed the other residents in the house that it was Manifold Manicotti that was in the oven I got some very strange looks. If you decide to follow my lead on this one, can I suggest doing it on a day when you're at home alone and can open up some doors and windows. The paint itself didn't seem to be too bad, but some of the deposits inside of the manifold started to smoke and kind of pissed some people off. Not to mention that they weren't too happy with the timing covers hanging from the fireplace mantle to finish drying. Oh well, you can't make everybody happy all the time. I do want to get a picture posted though after the carb is rebuilt with all of it mounted together. The old style ford blue looks great with the black parts.

Srt

that is, without a doubt, the coolest engine hoist i have ever seen!
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

dave1987

Looks beautiful!

I can't wait until I get the chance to pull the motor out of my 78 and paint it. I should have done it after my dad and I rebuilt the motor but I just didn't care about the car at that time in my life.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Hobbesga


Well, engine reassembly has begun. The block has been brought back from the machine shop... One of the auxillary shaft bearings was set incorrectly and had to be taken back to have them replaced. I posted in another thread about the kit I purchased, but I'll repeat it here...

I purchased an engine rebuild master kit from RPM Machines online, they're based out of Colorado. The kit cost me about $390 after shipping and handling. It included a complete gasket kit, a new Melling oil pump, sealed power seals and pistons (30 over), Durabond bearings (10 under), hydraulic lash adjusters, new camshaft, and a complete set of new timing components.

The block was tanked and I had the crank turned while it was out of the car (The crank was right on the border of still being within tolerances, so I opted to have it turned because, as deep as I was into the engine, I was hoping that it would be enough to help me get 200k miles out of this thing.) Other than having the chambers bored over, which might have been a pointless decision, but the machine shop offered to do it for $12.50 a hole and I couldn't pass up the chance to squeeze a little more out of the engine.

So now I've questionably used Plastikote Primer and Enamel paint to coat the engine. The primer and paint is rated to handle up to 500F. We'll see how well it holds up. I've included some pictures of the work after two coats. I'm trying to decide whether to throw a third coat on before I call it done. I've also bought some black Hi-Temp paint to coat the exhaust in.





I'm going to be continuing on for the next couple of days so I'll keep you guys posted.


phils toys

nice car great progress
dont be afraid  to ask for parts if you need them many of us have gathered spare parts  even if we may not need them
as i have a wagon but have alot of sedan parts  just in case some one can use them.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Hobbesga

Yeah, the brake lines are getting replaced. I just needed to get it working enough to figure out how much of the brake system was intact. It worked long enough for me to trouble shoot most of the system. I've already got the new master cylinder installed and I'm waiting to put the lines on until after I get the replacement shocks. I also got a delivery in the mail today of some of the POR-15 paint that I was wanting to test out, I'm hoping the Chasis Black is going to bring back some life to some of the suspension parts that I've been cleaning up lately.

The gas tank went back together today after a good scraping... My advice is that if anyone else decides to cut into their tank to clean it... don't. The thin metal was a pain to weld. It wouldn't have necessarily been too bad to do, but even after some serious cleaning and repeated hits with the wire wheel and a flapper wheel the metal was still contaminated. Let's just say it made for some interesting work.

The fill line going into the tank had also picked up some rust. Turns out that the 2-1/4" line was matched up well by some old exhaust tubing that was laying around. Removed the rusted section and replaced it with that.

Also managed to fix my old water neck, was too cheap to buy a new one and the ones in the junkyard were almost as bad as mine. I'll have to take a picture of it before I reinstall it. Cut off the neck and replaced it with a piece of stainless pipe. It's kind of cool looking and weighs more than twice what the old one did.

The big excitement today came when Fed-Ex showed up. I thought my parts had surely arrived. I got excited. The truck went into reverse and backed up... Despair and despondency washed over me. The truck pulled forward again and the drive called out my name. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, my parts! No. He handed me a small envelope and left me walking on my lower lip all the way into the house. Maybe Monday...

Pinto5.0

Welcome to the odd ball option club. Thats a keeper. My '80 has a black/gold theme that made it worth keeping.

After reading your posts I would definitely replace the front & rear rubber brake lines. 20 years of sitting has them swelled closed. That's why fluid won't go through them easily. They are not safe to drive on & the fronts are cheap. The rear is a bit pricey but you will never need to do it again.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

skunky56

Nice find I think keeping it is the best option, I myself have a 77 S&H white/red 
mine has the roll back sunroof however no A/C. Like the others said you do have a rare find.
Congrads.man on your find

Paul
77 Starsky/Hutch 2.3 Turbo A4OD Sunroof
78 Wagon V6 C3

Hobbesga

Well, it's been a minute since I posted so I figured an update was in order...

The engine has been completely torn down. I'm glad I did it. Overall it appears to be in good shape, but the hydraulic lifters had frozen up and weren't moving on their springs very well, not to mention that the water jacket was corroded up pretty badly. I'm expecting the rebuild kit that I ordered to arrive either tomorrow or the first of the week at the latest. If I'm happy with the kit once I've got it in my hands I'll post the link where I bought it, in case anyone else would even consider rebuilding the little 4 banger. I've made some attempts to track down various parts for the car that haven't met with much success. Come to find out, a nearby automotive garage runs a racing team, which turns pintos into drag cars. In other words, they have bought up every single Pinto within a 100 mile radius for parts cars and then scrapped all the pieces after stripping them down.

Also, I finally decided that since I was going to be doing all of this work I needed to deal with the gas tank. I dropped it out from under the car and cut off the top half with a small grinder with a cutting wheel on it. You wouldn't believe the amount of sludge I've removed from the tank. While I was cleaning it up today I also discovered some small holes in the top of the tank. They're all above the level of the filler neck, so chances are I wouldn't have noticed the tank leaking if I'd continued to use it, but the sludge in the bottom would have probably clogged my little inline filter I added rather quickly. I'll be trying to clean up the filler neck and weld a new end on that while I'm working on it this weekend as well. It also appears that the tank could use some rubber padding between it and the bottom of the rear floor. I found some areas under there that look like it rubs pretty good when the cars going down the road.

After the block comes back from the machine shop I'll probably post a couple of pics showing it in it's fresh and clean state.

Until then...

Reeves1

A fellow has to be careful using those old "hind diggers". Old worn hoses and weapy boom cylinders.
I've done it (lifting stuff) with all sized hoes & excacators. Always make sure the person near what is being lifted is clear that no body parts get near pinch points etc.
(track hoe operator with about 25 years on those alone)

Hobbesga

If you live in the country, like I do, then you would probably think it would be easy to find an engine hoist to borrow. Well, I didn't have any luck finding one, and I couldn't move the car over underneath my usual oak tree. So I asked my dad if he had a minute to give me a hand with it. Turns out he had an engine hoist all along, I just didn't recognize it for what it was.



And so after a few minutes here it is...



Now it starts for real...

Cheeseliner

75 Pinto Hatchback Runabout. 2.3 EFI Turbo Charged Pinto with C4 and 8 inch 4.11 locker, Front mount IC, NOS, Walbro/T-bars/ Drag Stars

dga57

Well, I'm glad to hear your insanity was due to a fever and that you're now feeling better! :lol:   Would have really hated seeing that car parted out!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Hobbesga

Well, after laying around in a puddle of my own juices for the last couple of days, I realized that my considering parting out the car was just the result of my fevered brain. So even though I still have a mild fever and my sinuses feel like they're packed full of wheel bearing grease I decided to spend a couple of hours working on the car today.

After a couple of minutes standing there in a daze I realized that I had absolutely nowhere to put any of the parts I was trying to pull off so I managed to build myself a small storage space out of old scrap lumber I had around...



If you're a carpenter, or just have any carpentry skills... then just keep any comments to yourself. I know it's ugly, but I did build it out of scrap while running a fever so it's good enough for me.

I've actually been taking quite a few pictures during the disassembly, but I don't think I'll be posting many of them unless someone needs to see how something is routed for their own project.

After getting the little shed built, I only had the energy left to remove the radiator...

I'd like to point out here that the shop manual lists the steps in removal as
1. Drain the cooling system
2. Remove the upper and lower radiator hoses
3. Detach the two ATF cooler lines from the bottom of the radiator
4. Undo and remove the bolts securing the radiator to the front panel
5. The radiator may now be lifted upwards and away from the engine

Ha! Yeah, that's basically it, but what should have taken less than 15 minutes if I had some help took me more like 45 minutes by myself. The fan shroud was a total pain in my a$$. If I had just had someone else there to help me get the drain cock and bottom radiator hose connection up past the bottom of the shroud it would have popped right out. Instead I spent a long time trying to finesse it out and finally ended up cracking the old plastic shroud. I don't know what was going on, but I've removed and replaced several radiators and never had this much trouble before.

I then broke the A/C compressor loose from the mounting bracket and laid it over to one side and started working on removing the power steering pump. Hopefully, I continue to feel better over the next few days and be able to get back out there.

I can't believe that I worked on the car in such bad weather for several days and got sick just as the weather got better. I've wasted a couple of perfect days to work on the thing laying on the couch. (There was a long sigh involved in typing that out.)

dga57

If it weren't a Starsky & Hutch car, parting it out would be a viable option (although it looks to be in too decent shape to even consider that).  I don't think you really want to part it out - your car is relatively rare.  Hang in there and you'll have a car you can be proud of when you're finished.  If not, at least offer it up "as is" here and you'll probably find some takers. 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Hobbesga

Well, apparently the water pump is shot. I can't say I didn't expect it. Looks like I'll be replacing the belts (including the timing) and the pump. I'll probably end up replacing several of the hoses while I've got it snatched apart. I think I may also have a leaky heater core, but honestly, I can't tell for sure right now. So, anyone think of anything I should be looking at once I have the front side of the engine stripped down?

Well, here's an update as of about 8p tonight, the engine sounds like it just spun a bearing. I have a very long list of explectives that I've been using for the last few minutes. Some of which I may have even been the first to ever utter. So, I'm definitely snatching out the engine starting tomorrow. I've got my camera on charge tonight. Not that anyone's noticed yet, but I've just stolen all of the sandwich baggies out of the pantry. Since my shop manuals haven't arrived yet here's my gameplan for you guys to critique... hopefully if I've forgotten anything you'll be able to stop me before I snatch the engine out with the parts still attached.

So the way I see it is this...

1. Battery and cables unhooked
2. Fuel lines and drain tank
3. Drain radiator and unhook coolant lines
4. Radiator removal
5. Exhaust at headers
6. Wiring from the distributor
7. Gas Pedal linkage
8. Driveshaft from tranny
9. Shifter from the transmission tunnel
10. Speedometer cable
11. Motor mounts

and snatch???

Oh... maybe the power steering too...

Any opinions on the best order of removal for the radiator... Will it come out with the fan still attached or do I have to take off the belts and the fan before I pull it out?

Well, it looks like the engine compartment is going to get cleaned up and painted after all... I'm starting to wonder how much I can part the car out for...


Cheeseliner

Looking good. Like you found out, the C3 tranny as 13 bolts on the pan. The C4 has 11. Also on the C3 the modulator faces towards the passengers side door. I just went thru these issues on mine. Good luck with it.
75 Pinto Hatchback Runabout. 2.3 EFI Turbo Charged Pinto with C4 and 8 inch 4.11 locker, Front mount IC, NOS, Walbro/T-bars/ Drag Stars

dave1987

Sounds like good progress! Glad to hear you didn't end up with transmission troubles like I did with my 73 wagon's C4!

For carpet, check out Stock Interiors at http://www.stockinteriors.com/ and order some carpet samples of their different shades of red plush cut pile to get a good idea of what color is closest to your factory carpet.

If you break any of the FORD letters, let me know, I have a few sets in storage.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

75bobcatv6

Tiny eyeglass screwdrivers, The Flat head on and carefully pry them up. little by little at each end. thats how I got the Mercury ones off my bobcat. it worked well and didnt ruin the letters, or the little things that Hold them in place.

Hobbesga

Yes, you're right... it's Type-F and I returned the other when I also returned the wrong gasket. The right gasket, filter, and Type-F fluid all came home with me and went on and in the car... as well as all over everything else in the vicinity and my hair.

I've been on here tonight reading through as many old posts as I can just trying to absorb as much information as I can from the Project board. I'm hoping that reading everyone else's struggles will help me pinpoint some of my own problems before I suffer through the guess and test method on my own.

I want to get started on the body and the interior so bad that I can taste it, but I don't want to move anything else forward until I can make a good driver out of this car. I've already started making some mock-ups for the new radio installation. I'm trying to keep the original radio in the car and work up some ways to mount a newer radio and some decent speakers without actually cutting into anything in the interior. If I get the car going before the end of the month I'm going to order some new carpet so I'll have something to color match. I'm thinking about making some kicker boxes to mount in the floor, I'll try and match the carpet to wrap the boxes so it's not glaringly obvious that the boxes don't belong in the car. Seeing as how most shops wrap their speaker boxes in either black or gray, I think that the red color will make the boxes look truly custom without detracting from the origianl feel of the interior. I haven't decided where exactly I want to mount the stereo yet, but I'm hoping to score one with a remote so I can stick it out of the way.

At this point having a pipe dream removed from the actual day to day wrenching is what's keeping me moving forward. Especially when I'm doing everything I can to not pull the engine out of the car, while I know that even if I don't do it now, I'll want to before it's all said and done.

Does anyone have any tips for pulling off the F O R D on the front lip of the hood? I'm going to have to take them off to do some sanding and painting, but I'd hate to break one of the letters. I'm imagining it's just hold your breath and pry gently, but hey if anyone has it down to a science I'd like to hear about it.

TIGGER

Check the dip stick on the transmission, it should tell you what type of fluid it takes.  If your tranmission is a C3 then it should take type F fluid.  Not sure what the dextron will do to it.  Nice progress so far!
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Hobbesga

Transmission pan went back on with the correct filter and gasket. I will say that the gasket I originally got from AutoZone was a cork style gasket (which I personally would have preferred, other people seem to shy away from those though), the gasket I finally got from Advance Auto Parts was a rubber gasket (I would have been alot happier about that if they hadn't wadded the gasket into a ball before cramming it into a small box).

I spent part of the day today cleaning and out the metal fuel lines and running new rubber sections. On this particular car the lines are 5/16" on the send and 1/4" on the return. I installed a large inline filter just outside of the fuel tank to catch any residual particles that I didn't get cleaned out.

I also replaced the battery cables with some new ones that I made out of an old set of heavy duty jumper cables. I've seen several people mention the deterioration of the passenger side fender well from what appears to be a battery acid leak. Does anyone have any helpful insight on the best way of dealing with this? The rust appears to be just starting to make a hole through the fender and hasn't yet done any substantial damage. I'm leaning towards hitting it with a sand blaster to clean off the rust and painting over it with some rust preventative paint. Any recommendations on paint type, or a better way of dealing with this?

I did eventually locate a set of tires for the car (Maxxis MA-1 P175/80R13), a set of 5 ended up costing me about $370 mounted and balanced. Considering I was originally quoted $442.24 for the same tires, I feel good about the deal.

Just as it was starting to rain today I fired the car up for the second time. It's still running rough, but I'm going to re-gap the spark plugs in the morning and start checking to make sure all of the cylinders are firing. After that I'll be running it down the road tomorrow for it's first test drive. I'll let you guys know tomorrow if it explodes in a fiery ball or just locks up tight and refuses to move. Otherwise I'll make a list of things to fix and start turning wrenches again.

As of right now I'm at a grand total of $969.22 into the car. So far the tires have cost more than the car so, if nothing else, I'll have a really nice set of tires to put on a trailer.