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1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
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1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Just SHOOT ME!! Starting another Pinto project, a '73 this time :)

Started by Pinto5.0, September 16, 2011, 05:14:31 PM

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Pinto5.0

Finally go some assembly going. Put the vent back in along with a good wiper motor.



Also got the column support & automatic pedal installed. It's all shiny black POR & pretty.



The new master cylinder is in & hooked to the pedal. I need an adapter for the brake line but that's easy stuff.



The new rack is in & everything's painted.



Also got the front latch support bolted in. I'm ready for the sheetmetal & some primer but I think I'll get the engine gaskets done & drop it in first. It will be easier with no fenders in my way.




This is now a race to finish before the snow flies. God help me....
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

bbobcat75

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

Finally got some serious progress. I blasted the underside of the cowl & POR'd it a few weeks ago.



I lined it up & got it tacked into place.





I hit the welds lightly with a disc sander to smooth them & then covered them with some seam sealer.







I also sealed around the patch where the battery tray was.



The next thing on the list is BlackCote on the fresh POR & the seam sealer. Once dry I can start assembly.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on August 05, 2014, 04:29:13 PM
Here's a couple shots of how they fit.





They will work well !
I have to haul my car to pavement to drive it. Have about 6 miles of gravel I will not drive the car on.
Well.....if it ran I would have to !

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Got the passenger side, crossmember & front of the tunnel all painted with 2 coats of POR. I have a few spots to seam seal tomorrow then I'll paint the top coat on & I can finally weld the cowl back on & start putting this car back together.







'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Pinto5.0

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dick1172762

Junk yards use to be full of them on old car haulers. Every car spot had 4.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on August 04, 2014, 10:57:46 AM
Like the first one...but doesn't ship to Canada.....

Just had a look under the back of my car. The original frame rails have been cut out for the tubs.
So I'd need two....providi ng the oval part is the right dimensions to fit.

I think those oval slots were an industry standard for the car carriers.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

Like the first one...but doesn't ship to Canada.....

Just had a look under the back of my car. The original frame rails have been cut out for the tubs.
So I'd need two....providing the oval part is the right dimensions to fit.


Reeves1

Where would a fellow get them ?
Would only need 2, I think.
I'll look at the back of my car later.....

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on August 03, 2014, 01:55:46 AM
See the brake line bracket, where the flex hose attaches. Now confirmed for me the long ones are for drum brake front ends.

I think my 72 has long ones & it has discs but I'll have to look closer & make sure

Quote from: dick1172762 on August 03, 2014, 11:57:45 AM
ALL pintos have those oblong holes for tie down. There's two more in the rear by the front spring eye's.


Yeah, they were designed for these T-style hold downs.

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dick1172762

ALL pintos have those oblong holes for tie down. There's two more in the rear by the front spring eye's.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Reeves1

See the brake line bracket, where the flex hose attaches. Now confirmed for me the long ones are for drum brake front ends. Like my blue parts car.
After I install the Wilwood kit on mine I will see if those longer brackets will work better for holding the flex hose off of the tie rod. Already took them off the blue car , blasted & painted.

Also see the oblong hole in front of that bracket ? Is/was that for some sort of transport tie down ? Ever see one that was made for that ?

Pinto5.0

Finally found time to blast the passenger side & tunnel. I would have POR'd it if the storm & floods had held off.







Work is gonna start picking up this month. Finishing this is gonna be a fight to the end.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Pinto5.0

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

to thin out the por15 did you add thinner or reducer to it??
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on July 30, 2014, 07:34:50 AM
POR 15 brush on or spray ?

If spray, learn any tricks to get it on nice ?
Type of sprayer ?
Air pressure ?

Don't know anything about spraying paint etc.....

I've been brushing it on. I bought the cheapest brushes I can find (3 for $1.00) & I use them once & throw them out. This stuff does not come out of anything once it starts to dry. It took nearly 2 weeks to wear off my hands & I started using disposable latex gloves. I refuse to spray it because I don't want to gum up my expensive guns.

Since this car isn't going to be a show car I have left my mistakes alone. It flows out as it cures & removes brush marks but on vertical surfaces it loves to run & sag & I have dozens of runs all over this car. I don't recommend applying it in the heat of the sun since it starts to cure & gets tacky REALLY quickly. I didn't have a choice but it's a bad idea & inside a garage in temps below 80 degrees would be ideal. Cover your floors with cardboard or plastic & apply it sparingly, thinner is better. I have easily wasted a pint or two due to rushing & less than ideal temps that made it cure too fast & too thick. This stuff is too expensive to waste but since this car will see road salt the excess isn't going to hurt anything.

If you sandblast like I did & want a smooth finish I'd sand everything after blasting then POR it. Anything that will see sunlight needs a topcoat because POR15 isn't UV stable. I topped mine with POR BlackCote. It's not cheap but it's good stuff. Keep the lip of the paint cans free of product. Both of these will glue the lids down but POR15 is like crazy glue. If you use the POR cleaner/degreaser & metal prep like I did wear latex gloves, they're nasty stuff. Any residue left behind (lint, sand, dirt, etc.) will show through the POR like a zit. If you want a smooth finish you must clean it as well as you would to paint the car. The recommended 2 coats POR with a single topcoat is thick. Keep that in mind where clearances are tight.

I did a lot of halfassing on this car & it's gonna show if you look close but it's a 4 season driver so it only matters as a teachable  moment to me. I could have prepped better & taken more time to get it perfect & I will apply what I learned to my other cars.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Reeves1

POR 15 brush on or spray ?

If spray, learn any tricks to get it on nice ?
Type of sprayer ?
Air pressure ?

Don't know anything about spraying paint etc.....

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on July 26, 2014, 02:57:58 PM
Knew you would have your Ducks in a row !  ;D

Yeah I wanted to get this right the 1st time. Any mistakes I make here won't be repeated on my 71 or 72.

Quote from: bbobcat75 on July 26, 2014, 06:32:39 PM
thinking about using either the line x or lizard skin bed liner on  my street/strip car! the floor boards and under the car as under coating plus to try and keep the heat down while driving!   a thought for that car for ya!

I'll splurge on sound deadener in my cars since I'll load them up with audio & subs. This one will get a basic deck with provisions for an iPod & about 180 watts total. If Paul wants to earn some money to upgrade his audio I'll install it later but he just wants a car.

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on July 26, 2014, 06:41:05 PM
All I can say is WOW!!
:D

Yeah, this came a long way already. I'm just glad most of it was solid. I would have cut it up for parts & scrap if I discovered all this rust as I was building it to be a V8 car. Now that I have the mint 72 shell to V8 all those parts I had for this car can go on that one.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Scott Hamilton

Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

bbobcat75

thinking about using either the line x or lizard skin bed liner on  my street/strip car! the floor boards and under the car as under coating plus to try and keep the heat down while driving!   a thought for that car for ya!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Reeves1


Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on July 26, 2014, 05:17:53 AM
Sand & paint any parts that will be exposed to sunlight.
Seems to me it says that in my instructions.

Yeah, I did 2 coats POR on the front clip then a coat of POR Blackcote for UV stability. Under the fenders I just did a single coat of POR15 because I planned to undercoat them heavily for rust & chip resistance. I'm going to Blackcote the underside of the hood over the single coat of POR. I let the POR flow into the drain holes at the front of the hood & along the edges & slowly turned it to get the stuff to coat all the inner areas that salt could potentially hit.

As long as he runs this car through a car wash with underbody spray about twice a month during the winter I think it will stay rust free indefinitely. The whole front clip is essentially dipped in this stuff & it's in every crack & crevice. I was thorough in my prep work & after blasting I used POR cleaner/degreaser then metal prep according to the instructions.

The only thing I would do different on my cars is to sand as much of  the freshly blasted areas as I could to give it a better appearance. POR over blasted steel has a rough appearance. I also have the occasional grain of sand under the paint because I rushed things a bit but this is not a show car. On this car it's merely being used as a preservative to keep the car from rotting away during winter use. This car isn't nice enough to restore for summer/show duty but it's not rusted junk that's expendable either. For a 17 year old it should make a perfect all season runner.

The rust in the cowl combined with the gutted interior, factory drum brakes, pinholes in the quarters & hacked up tail light panel where the Cougar lights were would have relegated this to being chopped up for parts. My stepson needing a car & my stockpile of less than mint parts actually saved this car from the scrapyard. I'll still have well over 2K in it when it's done but it will be a nice car for what's in it that won't need a wrench turned for several years at least.   
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

Sand & paint any parts that will be exposed to sunlight.
Seems to me it says that in my instructions.

Pinto5.0

I welded up the battery tray.



I also blasted the insides of the fenders & welded the emblem holes up.





I coated the undersides of the fenders & hood in POR15.





I also covered the undersides of the fenders with undercoating. I sure hope all this will save them from corrosion. If not I sure wasted a lot of time & money on nothing.

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze