Today I changed Ruby's oil and filter, fuel filter, and positive cable clamp. I took her for a short drive to make sure all was well after a few minutes of warm-up. When I accelerate from a stop I get a blue-gray-with a touch of brown smoke billoiwing from her tailpipe. She didn't smoke previously. The oil I put in was 10-40. Too thin maybe?
Yes it's me :P How long had she set before you got it. I assume this is the new car?
Robert, according to the CL and Pinto.com ad it was driven daily til a couple or more months ago. The oil that was drained out was pretty dirty. The engine runs great- she doesn't even smoke at idle, just when I give her gas.
I don't have an answer but that is what Bella does! She runs great at idle but as soon as I give her gas, she smokes! Hubby thinks it may be the carb dumping to much raw fuel or a couple other things, but he hasn't had time to work on her! I keep threatening to go take the carb off Mad Max and put it on Bella! To much longer and that is what I will do! Mad Max needs wireing work! Yuck! LOL
Good luck with yours, I hope you figure it out soon! Let me know what it was when you do!
Ruby's appears to be more like oil, and fuel smoke is usually black... this is real weird...as she hadn't smoked til after I changed her oil.
Becky, make sure you didn't put too much oil in her, might also want to check the PCV valve. 10w40 is fine. :)
Jim, the dipstick now reads well between the Min and Max lines. I put 4 quarts in her. As for the PCV valve... I'll have to send pix of thast. The setup looks nothing like the pictures in the book. Why wouldn't it billow smoke before the oil change, though?
Blueish white smoke usually is oil white smoke water and blackish gray smoke fuel.
That being said check the pcv valve as carolina boy stated cause if the original oil was thicker or extremly dirty it may have not been able to pass through the pvc valve but the new oil if thinner and cleaner can. Also how many miles is on the motor?
Yeah, I'll take a pic of the inside of the air cleaner (where the PCV is). There's a tube where the PCV should be... and the air filter's filthy, but O'Reilly's or Napa didn't have an air filter for a 1.6 but Napa will have one in a couple weeks. The motor has about 116,300something on it. The engine hauls arse. ;D
I'm noticing that Ruby doesn't always smoke at acceleration... at least not too bad. Other times there's an oil cloud behind us. :-\
Something else that makes me go hmmm... Every time I start Ruby- regardless whether her front end points up or down at an angle (as on a slanted driveway) - her ENGINE light comes on and stays on for about 5 minutes. I have checked her oil level (of course oil and filter was changed) and coolant. Could the culprit be the dirty air filter? Where can I find one for a 1600?
Id say your best bet would be take the filter to a parts store and see if they can cross reference it to some other kind of car if they dont have one listed for it.
Hmmmmm, I'm not liking the sound of this Becky, smoking, engine light on for 5 mins, whats next, rods knocking?? (OOOH bad pintoracer, bad!!) Hope the PO didn't fill her full of STP or something so they could get rid of her!! And no, a dirty air filter will not cause this. Any unusual noises on cold start up or while the engine light is on? Hopefully it is just a faulty oil sender.
No, no strange noises (well, the engine running so quietly and starting right up IS weird...lol. I do know the oil that came out of her pan seemed to me (in hindsight) thicker than what I'd put in. So should I drain the oil and put something thicker in?
No, 10w40 should be fine. I'm thinking that since the engine is nice and quiet the oil pressure sender is at fault. As far as the smoking, hmmmmm.....
still sounds like a pcv system problem to me. But then again im not to big of an expert on those 1600's now if it was a 2.3 id say at 116k its just in it break in stages LOL.
I'll take a picture of the inside of the air cleaner and you can be the judge... ;D
Ok Becky here is my official diagnosis, and first let me say im probably wrong. But i believe you have worn valve guides and the vavle seals are bad and this is letting oil burn which usually only shows up under acceleration and also allows crank case pressure to build a little which may be whats causing the oil to be blown up thru the pvc. But again i am almost always wrong. :lol: :lol:
And i really hope Jim is write on the light hope its a bad sender. Other wise it might be time to have a V8. ;)
If you have bad oil seals when you change oil the oil gets more time to soak around the valves and leak in to the cylinders, and will smoke worse on the first start up and acceleration but will get better and do it less after you drive it the first time.
Now David, why in the everlovin' blue-eyed world would I want to install a V8... she's plenty powerful enough!
Here's some pix of the air cleaner interior. Yes I'm aware that the filters need to be cleaned/replaced. That tube thingy I'm holding up is suspicious. Also, does that tube that goes from the air cleaner to the cannister below have anything funny-looking (besides it being disconnected at the air cleaner)?
There are a couple things I've observed today. The first is the engine light stays on as long as I keep the car in neutral when I first start Ruby up. After warm-up I sometimes coast her to the stop sign and the light stays on. When I put her in first gear the light flickers, then goes out. When I park, say, at the store When I start her again the light only comes on when the key is turned- like it should- then it goes out.
She doesn't always smoke-at least badly- on acceleration. She will if there's a load (like an incline starting from a stop) on her but once we hit 3rd there's no visible smoke.
that hose with the wire loom and zip tie i really doubt its supposed to be sittin in there like that lol not sure whe it goes though since i never messed with a 1600.
Ha! That's what I said! What th' heck is that?? ??? Hey Dwayne, can you take a peek at your 1600 and see if it has that tube? :lost:
According to my Pinto repair manuals there's a cylindrical PCV valve where the hose is. This is definitelt making me go hmmmm.....
Quote from: 71pintoracer on April 01, 2010, 10:04:27 PM
Ha! That's what I said! What th' heck is that?? ??? Hey Dwayne, can you take a peek at your 1600 and see if it has that tube? :lost:
I may be Saturday before I'm anywhere near the car, but I had already decided to do just that! My gut instinct is that there's nothing like that in mine! Will let you know!
Dwayne :smile:
When you find the PCV valve pull it out and shake it, it should rattle. If it doesn't that's probably the culprit. If it is clogged up and not letting the crankcase pressure vent out it will find other paths of least resistance, ie-worn rings, valve guides- causing the smoking. Sometimes you can spray carb cleaner or brake clean into the valve, let soak and with fingers covering both holes shake it up until you hear it start to free up. Hope this helps.
Kyle
Cool! Thank you Kyle! I'll try that... but what's up with that piece of hose, I wonder...?
My guess would be that it is dumping raw fuel down the intake and washing the oil off the cylinder walls and then burning it. The oil (blueish grey colored smoke) is lightening the black smoke (fuel) up into a brown color. The reason it started when you changed the oil and fuel filter is because the fuel filter was restricting the fuel flow.
Thats my guess :)
Ok... how can I fix that? Or does it mean engine overhaul time? It's also wortyh mentioning that the car diesels when I shut her off sometimes... diesels for a while too! lol. :-\
If it is what pintoguy76 is saying , you will need new rings. Might as well bore the motor out while you are in there and put bigger pistons in to. Would be a great time to restore that 1.6 to new!
yea, if it was restricted enough it would have been starving for fuel, you may just need to adjust the carb. The reason it diesels is because it is idleing to fast. Get out the screwdriver Becky!! :) :fastcar:
Quote from: pintoguy76 on April 03, 2010, 02:51:26 AM
My guess would be that it is dumping raw fuel down the intake and washing the oil off the cylinder walls and then burning it. The oil (blueish grey colored smoke) is lightening the black smoke (fuel) up into a brown color. The reason it started when you changed the oil and fuel filter is because the fuel filter was restricting the fuel flow.
Thats my guess :)
That is what my hubby thinks is wrong with Bella (my Squire)! I just didn't know how to say it like you did! LOL I sure hope that is the case for Bella and Ruby, like Becky said, we can fix that! Well we can fix something more major too, but not as easy!! :D
Thank goodness it's so simple! lol.
OK today I pulled off the air ciuu for your imput.leaner top and pulled that tubing thing off. It appears there's a rubber hose glued into where the PCV should've gone, and the PCV is at the end of that hose. For the record it does rattle. lol. Also, you can see how filthy the air cleaner filter and the breather element (?) filter are! Why can't I find the $#%^&* filter!?! lol. I'll consult my DIY manual on carb adjustment. Thank you for your imput guys! ;D
I'll be using this thread for other Things That Make Me Go Hmmm.... at least until Ruby gets her own Your Projects thread! lol.
Becky (and Jimmy),
I suppose it's a moot point since you removed the hose, but I looked at mine today and there is nothing like that in there! I WAS pleased, however to find a brand new air filter... presumably installed just before I drove it home from Maryland. Just thought I'd let you know!
Dwayne :smile:
Just say it Dwayne... NEENER NEENER NEEEE-NER! lol!
OK here's an observation (not to change the subject) that I made today (aren't new discoveries on old cars great?)...
I have noticed the windows on Ruby are kind of dark... well today, with some investigative need-to-know curiosity I found that Ruby, while not having factory a/c, does indeed have Sun-X glass. How rare is that on a '71 sedan?
First of all, here is a link to your air filter!! http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=FIL2072_0195105822&An=599001+101971+50026+2026028 (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=FIL2072_0195105822&An=599001+101971+50026+2026028)
Second, I went out and looked at my car and took some pics!! I have no extra tube in my filter either!
Here it is with everything together.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/myhrdly/Misc%20Pinto%20Parts/IMG_0560.jpg)
One with lid off! It is actually off the carb a tad in the pic!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/myhrdly/Misc%20Pinto%20Parts/IMG_0556.jpg)
Now, back to the link above, do you have a Napa close to you? I don't know what shipping is but you could probably buy it online. If not and you can't find one before Knots, let me know and I will go to my Napa and get one for you!
Yah Kimmy, I ordered my filter through them... but I have another week to wait tikl they can get it and then I can get it. I don't know why it takes them 2 weeks to get something like that. If I wanted it overnighted the filter would've cost me $15+. :P
Quote from: blupinto on April 03, 2010, 09:22:37 PM
Yah Kimmy, I ordered my filter through them... but I have another week to wait tikl they can get it and then I can get it. I don't know why it takes them 2 weeks to get something like that. If I wanted it overnighted the filter would've cost me $15+. :P
LOL, because it is probably coming from the main wharehouse here in Sac! LOL
I'll try Car Quest on Monday. I just want to be able to have supplies for a later date. Napa will have the filter next Friday, but Ruby's filter now is terrible! :P
Ive seen oil returns get alittle pluged and that lets to much oil sit on top of the head.If the seals leak at all then she'll smoke on you. Just one idea!
Ahhh...ok someone PLEASE decipher that last post! I am SOOO dumb! lol. :-\
There are holes that run through the head and motor that serve as drains for the oil. So as the oil pump pushes oil up to the valve train area in the head (cam shaft, springs, rockers, lifters, etc...) it has to drain back into the oil pan to repeat the process.
Sometimes, especially in our old cars, these drains get sludge build up from all of the wear that happens in the engine. This sludge is hard to clean off via the natural process of oil drainage, and eventually the oil drains back into the pan slower and slower.
If this is the case, oil might be pooling under the valve cover so much to the point that the seals around your valve stems (shafts that lead into your combustion chamber, or cylinders) leak the oil into the engine, onto the pistons and cylinder walls. When a combustion cycle is processed, the fuel is ignited along with any other combustible substance in the cylinder (including oil) is ignited (burnt) and then released through the exhaust valves and out the tailpipe.
Therefore, the smoke you see come out the exhaust pipe is the end result of the pooled oil under the valve cover draining into the combustion chamber, being burnt and discoloring the exhaust and into the air.
One way you might be able to PARTIALLY eliminate this possibility is by running an engine cleaner with your oil to clear out the oil drainage holes.
Once you are sure your drainage passages are clear, and if you still have smoking problems, try adding an oil treatment /additive that will help aid in leaky valve seals and temporarily "fix" the problem.
...enter Lucas Oil Additive...right? :D
Yeah there's a few out there. For the drainage problem get an engine cleaner/deposit remover. I had to use that stuff in my 07 saturn when I got it back from my ex-fiance.
For the valve seals, use a stop smoke one.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show (http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show)
Thats the lucas heavy duty stablizer i always use it will make your a oil a little thicker and keep everything lubed better and softens the velve seals back up and makes them seal better.
Most parts stores keep it in stock read the instruction on it and put in how much it says per how many quarts of oil your car holds. Just call a few parts stores and ask if they have lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in stock.
Quote from: blupinto on March 29, 2010, 09:44:58 PM
I'm noticing that Ruby doesn't always smoke at acceleration... at least not too bad. Other times there's an oil cloud behind us. :-\
Something else that makes me go hmmm... Every time I start Ruby- regardless whether her front end points up or down at an angle (as on a slanted driveway) - her ENGINE light comes on and stays on for about 5 minutes. I have checked her oil level (of course oil and filter was changed) and coolant. Could the culprit be the dirty air filter? Where can I find one for a 1600?
UPDATE: I haven't seen a cloud behind Ruby for about a week. Another thing I noticed is yesterday the Engine light was on only at starting... it went right off like it should! YAY! The heater fan works again too! I'm thinking maybe Ruby sat for too long and things got stuck. I did tell you all that the pcv valve still rattled... now she has a new air filter as well as the crankcase breather element. She does rattle when she is turning over though... Hmmmm....
Quote from: blupinto on April 15, 2010, 11:40:59 PM
UPDATE: I haven't seen a cloud behind Ruby for about a week. Another thing I noticed is yesterday the Engine light was on only at starting... it went right off like it should! YAY! The heater fan works again too! I'm thinking maybe Ruby sat for too long and things got stuck. I did tell you all that the pcv valve still rattled... now she has a new air filter as well as the crankcase breather element. She does rattle when she is turning over though... Hmmmm....
Well... at least it sounds like you're headed in the right direction! Just a thought... are you sure Ruby has the correct dipstick? The reason I ask is: back in 1978 or '79 I sold a brand new Mercury Zephyr wagon to a guy and in no time he was complaining about the oil consumption. It was "using" about a quart a week and smoking in the process. The service department worked on it several times and couldn't find anything wrong and even the factory service rep looked into it and didn't come up with anything. Finally checked the dipstick and found it to be a different length from others with the same engine. In essence, what was happening was that in order to bring it up to the full mark, it had about a quart too much oil. As it burned off, it smoked. Once it was down to the proper level the smoking stopped, but the dipstick showed that the oil level was low! Came from the factory that way! Would have never occurred to me if I hadn't been around when it happened!
Dwayne :smile:
Well, I don't know... the dipstick looks very different from my other pintos' 'sticks. According to the Pinto DIY manusal (from the factory) the dipstick lettering is the same (safe and add instead of min-max).
Quote from: blupinto on April 15, 2010, 11:55:33 PM
Well, I don't know... the dipstick looks very different from my other pintos' 'sticks. According to the Pinto DIY manusal (from the factory) the dipstick lettering is the same (safe and add instead of min-max).
I don't know either, Becky... but I thought it might be worth mentioning.
The length of the dipstick would be the issue. My book is upstairs... does it show different ones for the 1600 and 2000 engines?
Dwayne :smile:
Rubys just telling you how she wants a new and improved engine under her hood :P LOL
TIM!!! That's NOT what she said! lol!
Dwayne, in that '71 book it does show two different dipstick illustrations. I'll take a picture of mine and post it... you run to your Mom's and see if they're not similar. Oh, and while you're there, take some pictures of your Pinto's interior and get her numbers from her door please! Not just VIN but the color, trim, etc. codes. Thank you!
Quote from: blupinto on April 16, 2010, 12:31:00 AM
TIM!!! That's NOT what she said! lol!
Dwayne, in that '71 book it does show two different dipstick illustrations. I'll take a picture of mine and post it... you run to your Mom's and see if they're not similar. Oh, and while you're there, take some pictures of your Pinto's interior and get her numbers from her door please! Not just VIN but the color, trim, etc. codes. Thank you!
I have the same book upstairs... just too damned lazy to walk upstairs and look at it! The interior of my Pinto is filled with parts and, otherwise, is unworthy of being photographed at the moment. I'll be glad to get the numbers off the door, though. Mine is the base interior, which would be different from your upscale deluxe interior.
Dwayne :smile:
upscale! lol!