Mini Classifieds

Ford Speedometer Hall-Effect sensor with 6 foot speedometer cable

Date: 12/30/2022 01:30 pm
1973 Pangra

Date: 01/06/2015 02:19 pm
74 Pinto wagon armrests
Date: 01/18/2017 07:04 pm
parting out 1975 & 80 pintos
Date: 08/24/2018 02:50 pm
1978 ford pinto door striker (passenger side)
Date: 09/01/2017 11:58 am
1978 hatch back

Date: 11/29/2019 03:18 pm
Clutch Pedals for 75to 80 Pinto
Date: 09/21/2018 11:35 am
72 pinto and 88 turbo coupe

Date: 06/09/2016 04:13 am
Want seals for Pinto wagon "flip out" windows
Date: 08/08/2017 01:44 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,577
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 449
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 251
  • Total: 251
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Minnesota and Surrounding Pinto Owners

Started by Cookieboy, July 16, 2007, 01:37:01 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cookieboystoys

No trophy this time, there were appox 75 cars and they had 3 classes... 50's + and 50's - and Trucks. Top 5 in each class got a trophy and were voted on by the other car owners. That seems to be the theme to the local shows around here. The classes offered at each show have been different each time but voting seems to work the same. I do notice sometimes the other car owners do vote for the pinto but the only show I won an award at had actual judges.

also.. more and more I get to talk to people with pintos they hope to restore... hope to see some of them soon.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

OK... What about a trophy??
How many were in your class??

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: Pintony on August 27, 2007, 01:27:41 AM
COOL!!! Did you get any pieces of the derby cars??

maybe next time... the wagons got pushed around easily but the winning pinto's driver knew how to drive. Him and the mustang II driver were smashing em' up until he backed up over his rear bumper and some other debris and got stuck. The black car that finally lost his radiator for second place was in the last 5 and missing one tire, just running on the rim but still moving and smashing.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

COOL!!! Did you get any pieces of the derby cars??
Maybe get the driver to sign your piece??
From Pintony

Cookieboystoys

Well... I took the Pinto to the Embarrass, MN regional fair and Field of Dreams car show, Should be the last one for the year I plan on attending.

While I was there they had a demo derby and guess what.... 3 pinto's showed up, 2 wagons and a coupe... all painted orange. I went to go watch the Pinto's, the 2 wagons were knocked out early but the coupe won this group. The mustang 2 was doing good until the Pinto got him stuck and then took out the radiator on the black car in front of him for the win...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

Hey Brian,
Nice award!! That is a keeper with your Pinto photo included.
Nice score on the 73 Boss Pinto...
From Pintony

Cookieboystoys

Thanks High Horse, it's nice to win an award but it's not what it all about. I had fun today and met a lot of nice people. I think of the little red one and think "practice." The wagon was the one I bought to restore. The 73 was just something to play with and drive. It got a little out of control... 

I hope to do something real nice with the wagon... I was impressed with the response. Sitting next to the 73 it was amost like a little orphan child. People do like the 73 alot. But I have seen some amazing looks and responses to the wagon... a lot of people were asking what I was gonna do with it  :-X ::) ;)

I don't think I have it in me to go to that show tomorrow... today was to long and tomorrows show starts at 7 and ends at 4 same as today.

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

High_Horse

CookieBoy...Your raking them in!!!!!That is what you get for having such a nice car.
Two thumbs up.

                                                        High_Horse


   
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Cookieboystoys

Hey All, I'm back from the 23rd Annual Weekend of Wheels and Northern Cruisers Car Show in Grand Rapids MN. The Pinto's were a hit! I even got second place in the special interest group with the 73. They had several sets of judges looking the cars over, I thought I might have a chance at an award when a couple of them made sure to tell me how much they liked the 73. I did take the wagon too, it needs work but I did manage to get it looking pretty good for the show and it was well received as well. I got beat by a hopped up jeep, it looked really good so I didn't bother me. This was a great show, lots of compliments and very friendly people. Several members of the club sponsoring the show made sure to let me know how much they liked the car. I haven't gotten a response like this yet at a local show.

Today was a good day in my little pinto world ;D

I might go to this one tomorrow but today was a long, hot day in the sun and I'm not sure I'm up to it. I was up at 5am and at the show by 7 this morning, we got home around 8 tonight.... that's a long day.

Grand Rapids, Minnesota July 28 and 29, 2007
36th Annual Northern Minnesota Car Show & Swap Meet
Something for everyone! Two days of unique shopping at our Swap Meet with over 300 vendors selling car parts to antiques from all over the United States. Sunday is our Car Show with over $2000 in cash prizes. Car Show entry fee is $7.00 for pre-registered cars, $10.00 at the gate. We also have a Used Car Corral--entry fee for the weekend is only $20.00. Admission is FREE to attend our event, but there are parking fees as parking space is limited.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Attention!! Minnesota and surrounding area members!! is anybody out there?? Might be kind of nice if we might be able to meet up this summer. It doesn't even matter if we don't get together, speak up and add a post just to let us know you're out there...

If you're just a guest and can't post, send an email to brian "at" CR Computers "dot" net. Or! better yet join the club.. It's Free and Easy!

Click here to join--> http://fordpinto.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=56&?action=register

Lastly, I just wanted to let the area pinto people know I will be attending the 23rd Annual Weekend of Wheels and Northern Cruisers Car Show in Grand Rapids MN on Saturday July 28th, 2007. I should be bringing 2 cars, my 73 Pinto with hot pants and my 77 Cruising Wagon. I'm attaching a picture of the flier for the show and a map for reference as to where Grand Rapids is just in case anyone might be interested.

Thanks, Brian
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

on the subject of local regional events I did some looking and found a few possibilities if anyone has any interest in a get together this year....

I found some info here ---> http://www.hubcapcafe.com/calendar/minnesota.htm#August-2

;D I should be going to this one as it's only a half hour away

Grand Rapids, Minnesota July 28 - 29, 2007
36th Annual Northern Minnesota Car Show & Swap Meet
Something for everyone! Two days of unique shopping at our Swap Meet with over 300 vendors selling car parts to antiques from all over the United States. Sunday is our Car Show with over $2000 in cash prizes. Car Show entry fee is $7.00 for pre-registered cars, $10.00 at the gate. We also have a Used Car Corral--entry fee for the weekend is only $20.00. Admission is FREE to attend our event, but there are parking fees as parking space is limited.
--------------------------------------------------

;D Some others that may be worth considering later in the summer....

Dresser, Wisconsin August 18, 2007
Dresser Lions 6th Annual Classic Car/Tuck Show
WHERE: Main Street, Dresser, WI
WHEN: Saturday, August 18th
TIME: 10:00 – 3:00 PM

Best of Show judging at 1:30 PM, trophies for 1st, 2nd, 3rd place. Join us at the show for music, games, brats, hotdogs, pop, beer and much more. Car Entry fee: $ 5.00 Craft, vendor and swap spots available for $10.00.
To reserve a spot, contact Lisa Peterson 715-755-3650.
--------------------------------------------------

St. Cloud, Minnesota August 19, 2007
32nd Annual Car Show & Swap Meet
Sunday, August 19th, 2007 from 7 am - 3 pm at the Benton County Fairgrounds in St. Cloud, MN. Sponsored by the St. Cloud Antique Auto Club. Biggest one day show and swap in Minnesota. Come see classic cars, antiques, muscle cars & much more. Prepaid registration only $5. $10 day of show. Admission $5, kids under 12 free with paid adult.

More information at www.pantowners.org or call Les at 320-393-2741.
--------------------------------------------------

Farmington, Minnesota August 25, 2007
The Summer Spectacular - Car Show/Craft Fair/Swap Meet
8:00am - 3:00pm, Dakota County Fairgrounds 4008 220th Street
28 Classes including "Tuners & Low Riders" (102 awards total)

Car Show (over 435 cars in '06), Craft Fair (100+ booths), Swap Meet, Car Corral, Music, Games, Contests etc throughout the day, Boyd Coddington's "SoBe Woody" on display, Drag Cars displayed & fired up, Pancake Breakfast plus lots of Food Vendors, Parts Vendors, Pipe Rapping Contest (2 classes), "Hopper" Demo's & more. Forms, Flyers & 2006 Pictorial Recap available on the website. Line up some members and cruise on over for a full day of fun for ALL ages Show Cars $8 Pre-Reg or $10 show day (includes driver & passenger), Swappers/Car Corral $20, Spectators $5 (under 13 free)

Website www.TheSummerSpectacular.com
E-mail ShowInfo@TheSummerSpectacular.com
------------------------------------------------

:amazed: Here's My Favorite and Pinto's will fit right in. I will already be in the Cities that weekend for the Renaissance Fair and Hugo is very close to the twin cities. See here for map --> http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?q1=Hugo%2C+Minnesota

Hugo, Minnesota September 3, 2007
7th Labor Day Car Show
Hours: 8 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.

7th Annual Labor Day Orphan Car Show hosted by the North Star Chapter Studebaker Drivers Club at The Blacksmith Lounge on Hwy. 61, two miles north of Hugo, MN. All antique, classic, street rod, cars and trucks of all makes are welcome with a special emphasis on "orphan" makes!. $10 per vehicle including passengers. For sale signs allowed! Spectators $1.00. "Best of 21" awards for both "orphan" and "still-made" groups, food, beverages, and more! 225+ show cars last year! Details and event flyer at www.northstarwheel.com

Contact: Bob Shaw
Email: rrshaw@comcast.net
Website: www.northstarwheel.com
----------------------------------------------------

St Peter, Minnesota September 16, 2007
31st Annual Car Show & Swap Meet
Sunday, September 16th, 2007
Nicollet County Fairgrounds in St. Peter, MN
7am - 4pm
26 classes of cars and trucks to see and large swap area.
Our show is held the 3rd Sunday of Sept. every year, same place.

$20 ~ ALL Cars For Sale Under Power Must be Displayed in Car Corral
$15 Pre-Register with ST19 form filled out and mailed to address below...mailed no later than Sept. 3
$20 ~ OUTDOOR SWAP SPACE Pay at Gate
$25 ~ INDOOR SWAP SPACE Must be Paid by 9/10/2007
ENTERTAINMENT: DJ 8:30AM – 3:30PM
Hosted by:
AUTO RESTORERS CAR CLUB
P.O. Box 531, St. Peter, MN 56082
Website: http://clubs.hemmings.com/autorestorers
----------------------------------------------------

I didn't list all of them and suggestions are certinatly encouraged. Does anyone in Minnesota or Surrounding areas have any interest in a get together??? Post responses or feel free to email me brian "at" cr-computers "dot" net







It's all about the Pintos! Baby!