Mini Classifieds

71-73 Pinto Parts

Date: 06/06/2019 10:47 am
Need Brakes for 1971 Pinto
Date: 04/27/2018 11:48 pm
1979 pinto
Date: 04/19/2018 02:02 am
I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
Date: 04/12/2017 06:57 pm
Bumper, grill and fender wanted
Date: 12/24/2016 04:13 pm
Holley 4bbl carb. & Offenhauser intake.

Date: 08/09/2018 07:49 am
EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm
WTB. Seat cover or material LFront
Date: 07/01/2019 03:17 pm
72 Runabout Sprint Edition

Date: 04/25/2018 02:51 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 569
  • Total: 569
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Getting the Farthest Per Gallon

Started by Trent, September 29, 2006, 05:21:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dga57

Hey Jim!
What kind of '79 Lincoln do you have?  I have two... a white Mark V with the Wedgewood Luxury Group (blue landau top, mouldings, pinstripes and blue velour) and a Midnight Blue Collector's Series sedan.  Both are under 100K miles and run like a top.  I enjoy them immensely but they ARE pricey to drive, although the Mark V actually got a little better than 18 mpg last summer on an 850 mile trip... only about one mile less per gallon than my 2007 Mark LT 4x4!  My '72 Pinto (1600 w/ 4spd. manual) turned in 30 mpg on a 165 mile trip in January.
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Pintony

Quote from: jimspinto on April 07, 2008, 10:04:31 AM
  Its great here in Ohio, because you don't have to do a "smog" - E Check on cars registered to "historical plates".  You have to do it one time with "collector plates" but can re-register the car without a test there after, only have to get it to pass one time.

  However, the reason I opened this post was to tell all you pinto owners to stop worrying about mileage.  To make you feel better, I had my 1979 Lincoln out yesterday.  Just went for a ride, enjoy the car and the sun-shine.

  Filled the tank back up on the return home, at a cost of $78.00 dollars.

  I will just keep telling myself how much I love that car, and love to drive it.
 
  Wont check the mileage thou, that would take all the fun out of it [ha ha]

  Have fun, enjoy your car, and don't worry about the price, there are are alot of things that cost more  And are alot less fun.
The next time that talk of mileage comes up, I will say something about the one medicines that I need [so that I can drive, as well as other thing like walk etc.] at a cost of $1400.00 per months.  Kind of makes the price of gas "small talk" dont it

     Jim at   jimspinto

Hey Jim,
Sorry to hear your medical issues are so severe....
Yes really makes other problems in our lives seem so insignificant.
Take care...
From Pintony

jimspinto


  Its great here in Ohio, because you dont have to do a "smog" - E Check on cars registered to "historical plates".  You have to do it one time with "collector plates" but can reregister the car without a test there after, only have to get it to pass one time.

  However, the reason I opened this post was to tell all you pinto owners to stop worring about mileage.  To make you feal better, I had my 1979 Lincoln out yesterday.  Just went for a ride, enjoy the car and the sun-shine.

  Filled the tank back up on the return home, at a cost of $78.00 dollars.

  I will just keep telling myself how much I love that car, and love to drive it.
 
  Wont check the mileage thou, that would take all the fun out of it [ha ha]

  Have fun, enjoy your car, and dont worry about the price, there are are alot of things that cost more  And are alot less fun.
The next time that talk of mileage comes up, I will say something about the one medicen that I need [so that I can drive, as well as other thing like walk etc.] at a cost of $1400.00 per mounth.  Kind of makes the price of gas "small talk" dont it

     Jim at   jimspinto

chrisf1219

well guys in ca on my 77wagon when its time for a smog check it goes on a treadmill and its checked at 15 and 25 mph under load.also they look under the car for the cat and all holes must be plugged so no gas vapors can escape.my stock aircleaner had 2 circle holes and i had to find  a rubber plugs to fit it.of course aftet it passes i put back my open chrome ford racing air cleaner but all connections are there.and yes i wish it would drop off smog checks but it not going to happen in ca.   chris
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

earthquake

Its illegal to remove the converter but no one looks under 30 yr old cars,at least not here.Mine uhhh fell off yeh that's it it fell off about 16 yrs ago.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

dave1987

Isn't removing the catalytic converter illegal here in the states though?

I was thinking of putting a thru-pipe and removing mine since it is an exhaust leak on my car.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

onefarmer

Quote from: Starliner on September 30, 2006, 11:39:18 AM
4)  If you get spark knocking after blocking the EGR valve, then the distributor should be recurved or try the next higher grade fuel.
5)  Keep advancing your timing until you detect spark knocking under load.  Then back off slightly.


Did you know you can adjust the vacumm advance by putting a 1/8" allen in the vac port and turning it. This adjusts the spring inside. Counterclock to tighten and make the advance back off quicker.

-Jon

Starliner

two more...

* If you have a de-acceleration valve, remove it.  This wastes gas when slowing down.  The cheap way is to remove it and saw off the threded end.  Then tap the hole 1/2-13.  Then install a short bolt & washer with teflon tape.  Now reinstall the modified piece.  Also block off the hose to the carburetor. 
* Tire air pressure, run higher than recommended.  Try 30 psi. 
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Starliner

My beater 73 Pinto 1600 four speed stick got 30-35 miles per gallon on a trip from Iowa to Michigan last week.   Stick shifts are a big plus on any older four cylinders mileage. 

First if you get on the subject of increasing gas mileage it must be in the context of saving money.  The point being, why bolt on many high $$$ items to create get better mileage when you will get a net zero dollar gain.   So I would stick to things that can be done at low cost.  Your picture shows a later model that would be smogged down.  Here are a few low cost items I would do, although not too green!
1)  remove the catalytic converter and replace with a through pipe.  CHEAP!
2)  block the EGR valve.  FABRICATE A PLATE OR JUST REMOVE THE VACUUM LINE.
3)  remove the smog pump.  BLOCK THE HOSES TO THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD
4)  If you get spark knocking after blocking the EGR valve, then the distributor should be recurved or try the next higher grade fuel.
5)  Keep advancing your timing until you detect spark knocking under load.  Then back off slightly. 
6)  You may need to rejet your carb slightly richer after all these modifications.  YOU CAN DO THIS CHEAPLY WITH DRILLS
7)  Use Mobil 1 synthetic oil.  15W-50 in summer and 0-40 in winter.  Thinner oils will increase the mileage but risk engine wear on older vehicles with larger clearances.  The 75-77 2300 had piston scuffing problems if you did not run good oil.  The 2000 engine needs the thicker oil for the cam.  So stay away from the 0W-20, 5W-30, etc oils even though it would help mileage. 
8)  Run 180 degree thermostat in the summer and disconnect the hot air tube.  In the winter run 192 - 195 degree thermostat and re-install the hot air tube. 
9)  try running the next higher octane fuel and bump the timing more in advance.  Sometimes this can create more power and gas mileage and offset the increased fuel cost.  This also helps after blocking the EGR. 
10)  Spend this money...Electric cooling fan.  Go to a junk yard and get one off a crashed low mileage car.  Fabricate it using the shroud if possible.  This really helps the four cylinder in power & mileage. 
11)  get rid of excess weight.  Clean out that trunk.   You can also get rid of the gas evaporation system.  Drill a tiny hole in the gas cap diapragm so you can zoop & blow through it.  Now block the hose that goes to the canister.  Now remove the canister.
12)  Change to taller tires when they wear out.  This is like a gear ratio change.    Remember when figuring mileage you will need to compensate for the speedometer difference.  It may seem like you lost mileage until you factor in the difference.   Also if you don't figure in the difference you will be going faster than your speedometer says.  Ticket city!  There are calculators that can help you.  If you determine the circumference % difference between the old & new tires that will get you close. 
13)  Change the rear axle fluid to a multi-grade when performing maintenance.   
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Trent

just thought id open up a thread for those of you out there who are trying to get more mpg out of your car, aswell as myself, I'd like to hear any ideas, bolt on modifications etc etc etc, stuff you can do in your garage at home kindof stuff that would boost the mpg on one of our pintos

engine vs engine, what stacks up? 1600 2000 2300 ?  lets hear it from owners what kind of mpg they get.


ok, back to math homework, just something that ran through my head as i was going through this be-damned linear programming.


Trent