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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

I can only ask this here....

Started by Cookieboy, June 22, 2006, 05:54:36 PM

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Cookieboystoys

Thanks 79panel,

hadn't thought of that... I see now it would be important to keep motor and tranny matched up. Nice to confirm that rear end swap would be simple. Now just have to worry about motor and tranny mounts as well as drive shaft....

It looks like at this point I would need motor, tranny, rear end from the mustang. Need to get motor mounts, ?possibly tranny mount? and drive shaft for the pinto or at the very least modify these parts from the mustang/pinto to work for the swap. I haven't forgotten about radiator, exhaust, accelerator and all the other misc. little items. Right now just trying to consider the major parts w/drivetrain.

ARGGG!!! I wish I had the skills and tools to do this on my own but would have to pay someone to do the major part of this build/swap. I quit working on my cars almost 10 years ago and just pay to have them fixed now. I used to swap motors and trannys in my younger days but the people I used to do that stuff with had most of the knowledge and I just helped. Beginning to think "shinny, clean and in good running condition" is the easiest and best way to go for now. Just have to get motivated to relearn all I have forgotten in the last 10 years and get my fingers dirty again. The Pinto does motivate me to do this... just have to git-r-done  :D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

wagonmaster

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that a C-4 is not a C-4 and same goes for a C-3. There are different valve bodies for the 4-cyl, V6, and V8, for that matter. Also, the governor has different weights on it, depending on engine, which can change the shift characteristics of the tranny. As far as getting the engine into the Pinto, it's a piece of cake! My memory isn't real strong on this one, but I believe the metal stanchions that bolt to the frame rails on the Mustang II and Pinto for the V6 are different. In the Ford parts books they are a different part number. Best bet would be to get a pair from a parted Pinto. The mounts are easy to come by new. The Mstg II 8-inch is a direct bolt it to the Pinto. The accelerator cables are different, but they do come up on eBay occasionally. I've had four wagons with the V6 and I happen to like them. If you have any questions about these or need photos of an installed V6, let me know.
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

Cookieboystoys

Very Helpful Info.... I needed this.... Many Thanks  ;D

"A c-13 will have 13 bolts on the oil pan, a c-4 will have 11"
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

dirt track demon

A c-13 will have 13 bolts on the oil pan, a c-4 will have 11.
As far as front springs go, if you are planning on using the air conditioning you will need the heavier springs. I was cross referencing part #'s at autozone some 4cyl cars and v-6 cars used the same springs, the main difference was the a/c factor.  Hope this helps.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Cookieboystoys

I got this message from Pinto53 and thought I should include his message in this thread as others interested in this topic might gain knowledge from it. I also included my response....

Quote from: pinto53 on June 27, 2006, 08:53:22 AM
some of the tranny's will have a diffrent slip yoke from the v6 to the 4 cyclinder and the bell housing is diffrent also starter is on driver's side on v-6's would be intrested in the stangII's when you swap everything out       the 8 in should go right in with out any change other than new U-bolts if the old are rusty            I have put 4's in the place of 6's with out much problems

and my response...

Thanks pinto53,

I want to see if I can leave the original tranny (whichever it is C3 or C4) in the pinto and just change the bell housing and such. I realize that to do this I would have to have the same tranny in both.

If I have to change engine and tranny then yes, drive shaft and rear end swap would be done too. But it would be easier and quicker to leave the original tranny, drive shaft and rear end if possible and just connect the V6 right up. I"m not looking for race car performance just think the extra power would be nice.

A few have expressed interest in the stangs or parts after I pull the parts I want but all should consider....

1) I know this would be a project for next year or possible the year after. I have a rebuilt motor and tranny in the pinto now so it doesn't have to be done anytime soon or done at all. Just considering the options for now and trying to decide if I should keep the mustang that runs....

2) The Mustang w/the 4 spd has a bad motor and the entire drive train is most likely shot. It has been sitting in the woods/swamp for appox 5 years now and has sunk into the ground more than half way up the tires. During wet seasons this car has been sitting in water, most of the times I have been back there I was walking in water. It's dry right now and only a little damp but we have gotten a lot of rain in the last couple days and suspect the water is back. I haven't tried to open the door but suspect they wouldn't open due to how far it has sunk in. I did open the hood and all I see is rust.... all over every thing. Pulling this one out will probally cause major damage to the underside so I would warn all.... don't expect much from this one, I'm not :o)

3) the Mustang w/V6 and Auto (has AC and I think it may still work, not cold but seems cool) could be restored in it's current condition, interior is in fair condition, body has lots of rust but could be restored, motor, tranny and drive train are all good, I would guess that in the right person's hands this car could be road ready and driveable for under $500.00 as the only thing keeping it off the road is the brakes, They need to replaced all the way around, new brake lines and master cycl. Ugly but drivable if the brakes get fixed. I have owned this one for appox 6 to 7 years and I haven't even put 200 miles on it. It just sat in my garage until this spring. I was just going to get rid of it as I don't have as much interest in redoing the mustang but a friend convinced me to keep it... Pinto I will do, the mustang just needs to much work for me. I have appox $1200 invested in it and if I can use the parts off it for the pinto I might get some of my investment back. I doubt anyone would consider giving me $1200 for it in it's current condition. If I were to sell this one I would prefer to sell in one piece and would be happy to include the dead one after I get the parts off it that I do want.... I would only consider selling parts off the running one after I start stripping the parts I want.... and that will not happen this year.

Thanks to all for the info... if anyone has other suggestions please keep them in the thread as others may gain knowledge for their own projects....

Brian aka Cookieboy


It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Cookieboystoys

Thanks Harry,

If all I had to do was swap motors, mounts, and bell housing this is starting to sound like a real possibility and not to difficult.

Question on rear ends... would the 8 inch rear end swap right in without mods and if it does I wonder if the driveshaft that's in it now would just bolt right up? or is there an adapter to mount it to the rear end? thought I saw somplace or a reference to an adaptor for the drive shaft when changing rear ends....

Also... is there an easy way to tell the difference between a C3 and a C4 tranny??

I'll be checking the rear end on the running mustang next time I go to where it's stored. Was there yesterday and forgot to but was more concerned with the other mustang that we are gonna save from the woods/swamp. I started it up and it still sounds good... even considering it has only been started twice in the last few years. Also has air conditioning... not sure but seems to blow cool air.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

bigh4th

Swapping the 2.8 into your pinto should just be a matter of swapping the motormounts out of the M2 and into the pinto,  you *should* be ok with the pinto trans x-member, and if the M2 has an 8" rear end (no bolts on the back) swap that too.   I'm not sure if the 2.8 will kill the smaller pinto rear end, but every 2.8 pinto i've ever seen has an 8" rear, so ford must have done it for a reason.

Wiring for the ignition/sending units should be plug and play

Another thing is you *may* need to swap the coil springs.  dunno if ford used different springs or not.

and if the auto behind the 2.8 is a c3, I have a driveshaft out of a 76 2.8 c3 bobcat wagon that i'll let go for $25 plus shipping.

-Harry

Cookieboystoys

I wonder too on the tranny issue if they can both use the same trans.... perhaps I can bolt the V6 to the tranny in the pinto and just swap bellhousing and such. Then changing driveshaft and rearend wouldn't be necessary. This could make the swap MUCH! easier.

The mustang has a V6 w/Auto and The Pinto has a 4cyl with auto. Guess I need to find out which trans each has, c3 or c4

I looked and the bolts on my rearend are towards the back :o(
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

dirt track demon

Hmm good question on the tranny.   Both 4 bangers and sixes used either c-3 or c-4.  So im wondering what the difference is that makes a different driveshaft required.  The difference may be in the bell housing itself rather than the tranny. I think I had to cut about 3 to 4 inches out of my d-shaft.  As far as mounts go, you may have to make a homegrown one, you may not.
   If the automatic you are planning on using is for the 4 cyl,  you will need a v-6 bell and torque converter.  Does anyone else know about the tranny stuff?

  The rear end will be fine for a stock powerplant.  If you have the rear end that has the bolts on the front of the housing, instead of on the rear: you have the good one anyway.

 
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Cookieboystoys

Hey Dirt Track Demon, Thanks for the info... that's what I was looking for  ;D

Let's see if I got it right....

1) would need the engine and tranny from the Mustang. Tranny is different for 6 cyl and 4 cyl?? Right?

2) motor mounts from the Mustang would be used w/tweeking

3) What about the tranny mount??? nothing mentioned here.

4) Radiator swapped out/replaced

5) Drive shaft may need to be customized

6) no major wiring issues

7) exhaust issues/routing

8) Nothing was mentioned about rear end... could I use the stock pinto w/o issues???

Sounds simple if one can consider a swap simple. I would consider the preformance parts you mentioned. Not looking for racing preformance but might as well get a little extra. Like you I like to stray from the norm and the 2.8 swap would be right up my alley.

I doubt I would do the 4-spd conversion... just adds to much to the build. But there are other issues w/the 4-spd that remove it from consideration, to make a long story short after the motor seized and was parked someone (Not ME) pushed the car about 60 feet into the woods/swamp with the tranny in second gear. At first I thought the car had been stolen but about a year later someone spotted it back in the woods. It has been sitting there for about 4-5 years now and has sunk into the ground bad enough that we are still trying to figure out how to get it out.

The only reason I kept the car is that the interior is in mint condition. I'm going out to the place it's stored at this weekend with some friends to see if we can figure out how to get it jacked up and put tires on it. if we can get tires on it we should be able to rescue it but doubt the tranny would be of any use. I will keep you in mind and if we pull the tranny and I'm not using it you have first dibs.

Thanks for the info... Brian

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

dirt track demon

The biggest drawback to the v-6 conversion is the lack of cool aftermarket parts.  But i like the v-6, and from what the ranger guys are telling me is the 70's 2.8's that came in the pinto and musty 2's  were the ones to use if you were to do a v-6.
As far as putting it into your 4 cyl car, It isnt that difficult. You would need a different radiator as the inlet and outlet are on opposite sides, unless you are really good at making custom radiator hoses, I had to make a custom hose for the bottom hose and it took $40+ dollars worth of hoses to make one.  The driveshaft is shorter for the v-6 in a pinto, I'm not sure if the musty2 v-6 driveshaft is the same as the pinto, I had to cut a 4cyl one down and reweld it for my car but it didnt come with a driveshaft.  The speedo cable should be the same.  The engine stands can be used from the musty 2, but they may need slight tweeking.  Depending on what carb you use you may need a different throttle cable. 
  If you have emissions testing crap in your area, you may have some fun matching up wiring, but if you dont have to worry about that, the engine wiring will be simple, the duraspark from the 4 banger will plug right into the v-6 plugs on the distributor. Other than that I cant think of any other complications other than exhaust routing.

  If you are wanting the 4spd, you would need the pedal assembly from a stick pinto and clutch cable,  not sure what you would need for driveshaft here, though.  Some day hopefully I will find out thru experience.   

  Please keep me in mind if you would like to part with the v-6 manual tranny.  I really want to acquire one, but the only ones I have found were more than I wanted to spend.

  Out of all the conversion options you listed, the v-6 automatic tranny swap  would be the easiest.  Racer walsh has a couple cool cams for the 2.8, 2 choices of intakes 2 or 4 bbl.  They also offer a high energy ignition system for it as well. 

  I like to be different from what every one else has,  So i play with the v-6's.  But if you are looking to go fast really fast. then stick with the 2300, there are so many parts available for it, and very few choices for the v-6.

  Plus v-6's seem to like to eat head gaskets.  But every time some ijit  looks under my hood and asks me how i got a 302 in there it is worth it.  Im ignorant like that, I dont tell them its a v-6 either.  One of the neighbors is still trying to figure out how im getting away with running a 302 in the 6 cyl class.   It is so hard to keep a straight face sometimes.
  But seriously if you decide against the 4 spd, keep me in mind. 
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Cookieboystoys

Thanks Hign Horse, I agree that getting it road worthy is my main concern at this point. I was just curious about the 2.8 conversion because I have it and runs so nice. Just not sure I want to tackle it and still would like to have the info on what would be required to do the swap. After getting the info I have requested on the process involved (doesn't need to be detailed just the basics) I will then be able to decide if I should keep the mustang for a later day project or sell it for money to fix up the pinto and get it out of my life and yard.

My goal for this pinto is to get it fixed up for a semi daily driver as it's not origional and has high miles. Later and I'm still looking.... for a low milage pinto wagon in origional condition for show and to have. I haven't had a pinto/bobcat in about 13 years (since the divorce) but that has changed, I loved each of the pintos/bobcats I had in my younger days and was just a matter of time before I got a couple to fill the void. I'm not filthy rich but can afford to buy toys if I want them.

I would still appreciate it if someone could make suggestions on the process involved (doesn't need to be detailed just the basics) on doing the 2.8 conversion.

Thanks  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

High_Horse

Cookieboy,
  Based on all of the facts provided I will make my suggestions to you.
First and formost you are a Pinto owner. Take good care of your car. Second you are an enthusiastic Pinto owner. Don't get carried away with starting something that you do not have the expertise to finish correctly (unless you are filthy rich). Be informed that much of the project retoric that you read about on this web site is being undertaken by extremely skilled,cabable and competant indiviguals. I personally suggest that you channel your enthusiasm into keeping your Crusing wagon Shiny,dry and in good roadworthy repair. I agree with the Paint,carb and interior work.
The 2.3 is a good engine. The head gasket was probably replaced because of a breach between cylinders or a breach in the back driver corner oil passage( the 2.3 engine has one of the best oil pumps I have ever seen in an engine). Also, I am an automatic kinda guy. Shifting is nice but there is nothing wrong with an automatic.
                                                                                                    High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Cookieboystoys

nice to hear Pintony,

No one seems to bother with this swap, Mostly V8's and Turbos. I've just started to think about doing something like that. Have the mustang and not sure what to do with it.

I just wonder if anyone has done this swap or could guess on what the best route to go would be? would I have to pull the engine and tranny from both cars? Do I have to change the whole drive train from front to back? What parts would be needed from the mustang? I have very basic skills when it comes to working on cars and would be paying someone else to do the work but if they would let me I would help.

and.... I could make it even more interesting. I have another 76 mustang with a seized 2.8 and the 4-spd tranny option vs. the auto. I would really rather have a 4-spd!!! the advantage to the mustang w/auto is that I know it all works and excellent at that.

and one more choice.... I know someone with a 2.3 turbo with a rebuilt turbo just before it was pulled, ran excellent but wanted a big v8 instead. He has all the electronics and access to most if not all the parts needed engine wise.

for now.... I am planning on just getting the wagon running excellent. I have been told the motor and tranny were rebuilt 25,000 miles ago. And, for some reason they replaced the head gasket. While that was being done they shaved the heads and I was told the pistons looked great. It's getting a reman carb installed tomorrow, it was spewing gas out the top when it ran.

If all goes well with the new carb I should have a decent ride. I have a bunch of things in mind for the pinto and by next summer I should have most of that done. Needs fit and finish work, fresh coat of paint and a little interior work and I'll be happy.

but I still can't help but wonder.... v6,  4-spd, auto, turbo.... the possibilities are endless
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

Hello Cookieboy,
If you have both cars then you should not have too much problem.
I would say that on a scale 1-10 this should be a 5 if you have basic knowledge of mechanics.
From Pintony

Cookieboystoys

If a mustang fan saw this I would be burned at the stake  ;D

I just bought a 77 cruising wagon w/2.3 and auto and I have a 76 Mustang w/2.8 and auto.

The mustang is shot except the drive train, Motor, Tranny, Etc. work and run excellent w/under 80,000 miles. It's been sitting for years now and I don't have any interest in restoring it.

I would however consider replacing the 2.3 in the pinto w/the 2.8 in the mustang

Does anybody have any idea the process required to do this conversion?

What would have to be salvaged/changed for it to work?

Thanks :o)
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!