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1976 (non hatchback) pinto (90% complete project)

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1974 Ford Pinto

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

rear end vibration

Started by r4pinto, May 29, 2006, 12:27:26 PM

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renton481

For what its worth, I had a pinion bearing that caused a roaring or groaning sound from the rear end as it was going bad.

goodolboydws

(And if you can't tell your shocks are gone when driving the vehicle, someone else should be driving it.)

turbopinto72

I think ProThane makes bushing kits for the 74. You might also check your shocks. worn out shocks will thrash your front tires in a hurry.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

goodolboydws

r4,

Unless you recently replaced only ONE of the front tires with one that hasn't been there as long as the other front tire, having only one front tire inside edge being bald is generally not a wheel alignment problem. It's more likely to be a worn, bent, or broken parts problem on only that side of car. (usually from a tie rod end or a bad lower ball joint)

BOTH front tires having only their inside edges being equally bald=wheel alignment problem.

A loose enough tie rod end or any weight bearing ball joint in the steering or suspension can make some cars shake, wobble, or weave side to side, which may be contributing to the whole car vibration problem you described, by amplifying it.


BTW,
Didn't you say earlier in this same thread that  "I actually replaced the tires & they are all good." ? Did that one front tire suddenly go bald on the inside edge after you replaced them all?

What's the real story here? It's harder for anyone to help if the info you're supplying is not accurate.



In re. a possible missing driveshaft weight:
It might be very difficult to determine if a weight is actually missing from an old driveshaft, if it has been very slowly peeling off from slowly advancing rust over the years. They are usually spot welded on, and if it DID come off, only one tiny spot may have still been holding it on before it came off. 
If the problem started after doing any work on the driveline, I'd suspect indexing as more likely to be the problem.

MattG

Wow awesome info there.

I checked my driveshaft for lost weights, but none were missing. I checked to see if my u-joints were bad, but they seemed fine to me. I will have to wait until I am back at my shop to check to see if there is play like you stated above.

I know now that my Front end alignment is off. The inside of the Right tire is almost bald. I think that is my problem there. Or at least a Factor in the problem. I will probably order a new set of bushings and replace them, then have it aligned and see where I need to go from there.

Does anyone know if they make bushing kits for a 74 pinto. Like I know I got like a Energy suspension kit for my rx-7, Do they make something like that for our pintos?
74 Runabout 2.3L

goodolboydws

Matt (and others),

You might want to check YOUR ujoints to see if one is sloppy. A couple of tips:

Grab the driveshaft in one hand and hold onto the yoke with the other, you should not be able to feel or hear any "clunk" or "click" between these 2 parts at all if there is no wear to the joint and sufficient lubrication is present. If you CAN, it's time to replace the joint. Don't just grab the driveshaft and rotate it without holding onto the yoke, or you will simply be feeling the significant amount of play that is almost always going to be present in the differential and/or the transmission.

The most common cause of wear to a ujont is lack of lubrication. Many modern ujoints are "sealed for life", and those that aren't frequently get ignored when a front end lube is done. Without regularly replacing the grease that can get forced out over time or contaminated with road dirt bypassing deteriorating seals, the joint will eventually hit a point where there is metal to metal contact between the needle bearings and the spider. (Also, any space that is not occupied by grease is an open invitation for water to enter the joint through condensation or direct exposure.)  Either or both can wear to a flattened condition, and over time that creates a lot of extra movement that is not supposed to be there inside the ujoint. 

Many times when there is enough wear in a ujoint, it can come to rest in an off-center position, and it can then produce a whole vehicle vibration when the driveshaft rotates-IF it remains in that off-center position. Then, when you bring the car up to speed, it will sometimes find a high enough speed at which it may recenter itself.

Matt, I think that may be what is happening when you get up to 70.
Until then, the transmission is shifting every few seconds (or more often) and because of the short time involved, and the continually changing torque pressure being applied to the joint as you accelerate, you may not be noticing the vibration, even if it is there.

At a steady speed while staying in one gear, the vibration would be more liable to be easily noticed. 

When you're cruising at a steady speed, or accelerating, all of the slack is taken up from within the drivetrain, as one component steadily pushes against the next, which then pushes against the next, etcetera, until the pressure reaches the axle shafts themselves, which is the end of the line.

But when you back off the throttle and coast, think about what is happening at the ujoint.

1. the joint is relatively slack, and it can "float" between IT pushing and it BEING pushed by the components farther down the line.  In this loose state it would not be able to TRANSMIT vibration from it's own unbalanced condition and the mass of the driveshaft may well dampen the vibration completely,  even if there is a LOT of slop or a lack of balance in the ujoint.

2. if the driveshaft is rotating fast enough, it may also be able to temporarily recenter itself then when it is not under continuous pressure.

Changing the shocks will not get rid of a whole car vibration if it originates in the driveline.  Although it might improve the handling and ride.

r4,
the clunk may well "just" be wear in the transmission. Or an accumulation of wear at several components. (Each ujoint, plus the trans, AND the differential, each having a little could add up to quite a bit and result in a big clunk.)  If it isn't acting up otherwise, or getting worse, a lot of people learn to live with a clunk like that.  If you've already changedthe ujoints, check for play from the front joint forward, you might be surprised at how much can be there and the trans not having any obvious problems.

P.S. Check your idle speed too. (Here I'm going with the idea that you have automatic transmission.)

If that is higher than it should be, the transmissions' initial engagement is taking place at a higher than designed speed and play or no play, there will be more of a "clunk" or "thud" than there would be if it were slipping into gear at a lower engagement speed. Little stuff can make a big difference....

MattG

I too am having the same problem. Mine is more like a whole car viberation though. Its wierd though. When it starts to vibe, If I let off the gas it stops it is only when I give it some throttle at those speeds?

It is fine when I am getting up to speed but when I get to about 55-65 it starts to shake. It kinda dies off when I get to 70.

I know its not the tires, But I know I have a bad shock, I am going to replace them and see if it helps.

could it be alignment?
74 Runabout 2.3L

r4pinto

I think you might have hit on something. I did not index the driveshaft when I replaced the u joints. What made me think it was the rear gear itself was I wa getting a single clunk when I put the car in gear. Now I'm not so sure it wasn't something else besides the gear.

Pintony, I checked the axle bearings & they spin freely but not too freely. I think what I'm gonna do is reassemble it all after cleaning it & relubricating all necessary parts & change the position of the driveshaft to see if that makes any difference at all.

How should I lubricate the bearings? With grease or what? I have bearing grease, but don't know if I should use it on the axle bearings & such. Also what is the torque spec on the pinion gear nut?
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

goodolboydws

You might want to check the driveshaft closely to see if you can tell if it has lost a balancing weight, and that it is installed in the original assembled position relative to the front and back yokes. On a vehicle this old, it would not be unheard of to have suddenly lost a weight, which would definitely cause a driveline vibration.

If, as you said,  one or both of the u joints were replaced recently, the driveshaft may have been incorrectly indexed during reassembly, which could easily cause an out of balance condition.  That's why the procedure is to mark things before disassembly. Did the problem get worse or start AFTER doing the u joints?

If you haven't done so yet, don't forget to double check that the ujoints are assembled and installed correctly, sometimes crud or rust gets trapped in the bearing cup recesses and then the new joint doesn't settled in properly. 

Also, did you tap the new ujoint with something like a deadblow hammer, after assembling it to the driveshaft, to see that it rotated smoothly and not stiffly? Not doing this during reassembly, to make certain that the needle bearings are free, and that the spider is centered, and that the NEW ujoint is truly free to move properly is frequently a cause of sudden onset driveline vibration.

Pintony

How about the axel bearings???

r4pinto

Wel, I did a test fit & found the replacement parts do not fit the housing on my car. After finding that out I took a look at the old ring & pinion & there was no unusual wear to any of the teeth. with that in mind could it have been a bad pinion bearing? It did have some play so I replaced that.

Any ideas?
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Not too sure if it was or not.  I got it all apart & will be installing the replacement parts into the housing. Hopefully all will be good once I get it all together.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

pintoman

Is the pinion gear torqued to spec's.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

I actually replaced the tires & they're all good. I may have been describing it wrong. Its a vibration but it's a driveline vibration, like I'm dragging my butt on the ground. Sounds like a groaning noise from the back as opposed to a tire vibe.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

turbopinto72

Quote from: pintoman on May 29, 2006, 01:27:40 PM
Check the rear tires for out of roundness and balance.

Good tip. Usually the drive train does not cause a car to vibrate.I would go with the tire/wheel combo first and check it out.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

pintoman

Check the rear tires for out of roundness and balance.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

r4pinto

I have a 77 Pinto sedan 2.3 & at 55-65 it vibrates from the back something fierce. I thought it might be the gear so I got a replacement & took the old one out, but there doesnt seem to be any excessive wear. I did notice some wear to the axle shaft splines though. Could that be my problem? If not what? I already replaced the u joints so that is all good.

HELP!!!! Need it ready for Carlisle!!!!!!!!!!
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress