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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

.. Turbo CR!!!

Started by Pintony, January 25, 2006, 11:53:43 PM

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fomogo

www.turboford.org
Go there... type your questions into the search engine.
YEARS worth of archived tech info for you to browse there.
General turbo related books.
Maximum boost by corkey bell
Turbochargers by hugh McInnes.
Shop around for turbochargers, the holset HY35W from a dodge cummins is a popular one for guys wanting good power right now.
Depending on what year your engine is, you may be able to upgrade to a stock turbo from another year 2.3

Esslinger, Racer Walsh, and many vendors on turboford can help you with parts aquisition.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

UltimatePinto

Am wondering, after my attempts to understand all of the info presented in this post, how to plan for a EFI turbo power plant.
I think that I've heard of a Ford turbo web site somewhere. Any suggestions for books or manuals regarding componets selection, (pistons, cams, valves, headporting, etc?), that would help the novice. I have a drive train with all of the wiring plus the "eek" box? It's the one that was tucked into the front passenger kick panel that seems to control just about all of the engines functions.
It seems as though Racer Walsh had a rebuilt turbo unit available as long as you had a core to swap for it, headers for the unit also. Am not sure if it's still available. Are there any other suppliers out there, besides Esslinger?
I suppose it's never too early to start planning.
Al
in Ct.

fomogo

Quote from: 78pinto on January 28, 2006, 09:46:50 AMBy the way Jim, have you got your car boosted yet?
Not yet... this thing called unemployment reared its ugly head and forced the sale of a LOT of stuff.
I am working again and will soon start gathering parts again tho. :D


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

77turbopinto

This is what "bench racing" is all about. We get to exchange ideas, and with it online, I won't wind-up getting a fat lip.

Sometimes, for me, I will state an opinon based on certian facts, and not fully explain the perameters.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

78pinto

Jim is right, the more power a car makes N/A the more power it will make with boost.....but there is the "what fuel will you be using" question that pops up. For a street car i would try to keep the CR to under 9:1 max, but i have seen them at 10 (with points) :1 but i think they are running the edge with that. They may only run 4-5lbs of boost on the street with 93 pump gas, but with a tank of C16 at the track and a few twists of the dial a boost.....look out! Boost is a fucntion of restriction that is very true, two identical engines one with AFR 205 heads and the other with say factory ported heads will be way different in there boost capacities. The AFR headed car we'll say makes 600hp at 14lbs of boost and the stock headed car would need say 19lbs of boost to hit that same power level (same thing is true with the intake tract) By the way Jim, have you got your car boosted yet?
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Pintony


Hello Group,
I have corrected my error.
Thanks bill.

This subject line is going better than expected!!!!!!!
I love reading how other members minds work and the other perspectives on this topic!
Special thank you to FOMOGO for his opinion.
FOMOGO has added yet another valued perspective.

From Pintony


77turbopinto

Pintony, I did not bring up the cam thing, 34 did, i just replied.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

fomogo

One thing to keep in mind here also.
Boost is just a measure of how much restriction there is in the intake path... not a measure of power potential or air flow.
The modern engines are generally aluminum headed and have MUCH more efficiant combustion chambers.
Modern engines generally have much better intake tract flow.
You want the smallest quench area for a given compression ratio, if possible have the dish in the piston directly under the quench area of the head. This lowers the posibilty of detonation.
Most high compression engines that are running boost are running a lower level of boost than the low compression guys.
Off boost these cars will have a lot more snap to them, and on boost they still pull nice and hard.

Best rule of thumb when building a turbo car... and I KNOW a lot of people disagree with this... is to build a strong NA car, then boost it. Only dont get carried away on overlap.
On the overlap topic, I have seen a few dyno runs with cars that have "wrong" cams for turbos. It is amazing how well they work.
"If you have overlap you will be pushing the mixture out the exhaust valve!!!" Anyone care to time how long both valves are hanging open from 3000-7000 rpm and how far they are both open? ;)

I have had dealings with turbo LS1 GMs, turbo 5.0s, turbo 4.6s, turbo hondas, and all kinds or other turbo vehicles since I got into playing with turbos in 91...
Most of the "you cant do that" things are opinions... and are blown out of the water when people say screw convention... and play outside the box.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

UltimatePinto

Hey Pintony,
Much thanx for the rescue from the freezing winter doldrums ! ! !
The grey matter upstairs dwindles with age, especialy at this time of year.
Being wrapped up with projects for the spring car shows leaves not a lot much more to consider than keeping warm while swinging the wrench, looking for some reason to keep from getting one's head examined ! ! ! :o
Not knowing my anus from my nostrils about turbos, (have a drive train fron an 87 Cougar Turbo EFI X-R7), I shall remain glued to your post. I wish tp place said unit into a 71 Sedan someday.
I will go out on a limb here, but I ask that you consider the air pump theory.
Rather pushed or pulled, the ultimate scenario culminates when the mixture is detonated, in a given area, with a given piston compisite material, and a compatiable array of elements that will achieve the most desired means to the end of the perputal motion therory. and the combustions results being expediantely removed from the scene of the crime!(for cooling pourposes).
Having said that, I would think that the mass, (air/fuel, and what ever gas, plural), that enters the chamber, would be revelent
As we all know, water can not be compressed, however it plays a big part in the  combustion process, (atmospheric humidity).
Not running for President on this one, but thanx to Pintony for the splash in the face!
Al
in CT.

Pintony

I also want to give 78 Pinto credit for pointing out the Street Vs. Race aspect.
I sometimes forget about that when I read something which I do not nessissarly agree.
From Pintony

Pintony

Quote from: 77turbopinto on January 26, 2006, 06:05:54 PM
Pintony, The more I thought about it after, I figured you might have it set up like nos. Kool. (Sorry for the pun).

34, I did not say efi "mixed" better, and COLD start-up is more of the issue with a carb. set-up (we don't need to tell pintony). As far as running, the colder the air the better for both. There is a BIG difference between a high c/r - low boost and low c/r - high boost. More boost works better than more cam to get more power out of a turbo/supercharged engine.

Bill

OK fast34,
You introduced a NEW factor in to the equasion of this discussion.
CAM!!!
If you have say, a BIG cam and do not increase your CR then you have in effect lowered the CR because of "overlap".
Then the discussion takes on a different aspect to the original discussion because...
IF efectivly lowering the CR by use of a BIG cam "FOR ALL OUT POWER" Then Yes I can see where the CR of 11 to 1 may be nessissary to achieve MAX HP.
This discussion if falling into the crack where I say "You can not talk to a RACER about your street driven engine because they are only interested in MAX HP."
NO other factors are present.
The racer is not concerned with Milage, Driveability, off idle acceleration, JUST MAX HP!

I have concluded that the Original topic of high compression turbocharging is a RACER thing NOT a street driven modification.
I welcome the members here their continued points of view on this subject.
I'm thinking Maybe a little more CR to help out low end driveability might be a good thing.
The original 2.0 comustion chambers that I have cc'd are about 46cc. The Combustion chambers on m y Purple Pinto are 51cc due to the combustion chamber modifications I have performed. My chambers are Morror smooth & all sharp edges have been broke using a jewlers file. + stainless valves
Hopefully my C.C. hot spots are now to a minimum.
If I pull the head someday I MAY have a few thousands removed to raise the CR a bit. But most likely since I keep good notes I can just introduce these modifications into the next 2.0 turbo engine I build.
From Pintony


78pinto

for street use lower CR is better for turbocharged (or boosted or nitroused in gereral) as it allows better fuel economy and more importantly streetability with the use of pupm gas. MMFF magazine did an article on the same turbo kit put on identical engines with the eception of CR (one had 8.5  the other had 11.) The higher compression engine made alot more horsepower with the same amount of boost but it also required higher octane gas at a lower boost level than the 8.5:1 motor. EFI gets better atomization of the fuel Sent into chamber under pressure) than a carb, therefore they are more efficient.
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

77turbopinto

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

CHEAPRACER

We could also run higher CR but remember the crappy, inefficient iron combustion chamber prevents it. Advantage ricer.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

77turbopinto

Pintony, The more I thought about it after, I figured you might have it set up like nos. Kool. (Sorry for the pun).

34, I did not say efi "mixed" better, and COLD start-up is more of the issue with a carb. set-up (we don't need to tell pintony). As far as running, the colder the air the better for both. There is a BIG difference between a high c/r - low boost and low c/r - high boost. More boost works better than more cam to get more power out of a turbo/supercharged engine.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

fast34

As far as my knowledge is concerned, C/R has no effect on air volume that actually gets in the cylinder.  As far a efi is concerned, it's my opinion, that it doesn't necessarily 'mix' any better, but it just manages it better to keep the fuel/air ratio where it needs to be at varying conditions.  That is why an efi motor will run much better at cold temps. than a carbed one does.  Those rice eaters can run a higher c/r, but will not be able to use as much boost (p.s.i.), as with a lower c/r motor.  No major difference, or gain, if you actually think about it.  I think that more can be gained by using a different grind of cam in a turbo engine.  Different opening and closing times and maybe a different centerline for more or less valve overlap.  Just my thoughts --I'm definitely no expert.

Pintony

Hello Bill,
My WIS is controlled by a hobbs switch that is adjustable for boost
and activated by a solinoid. Just like NOS.
From Pintony
In answer to your why Q... Maybe everybody else has a job???? ;D ;D ;D
I'm out of work right now and READY to go back.
Monday is the day that i return to work.
I never thought I'd ever be happy about work!!!!! ::)
From Pintony

Pintony

Hello Bill,
Nice reply!
I really like the part about the Fuel/Air mix being held to a narrow margin to help the engine to survive.
That is something I have not thought about for a while.
Yes too much fuel and you wash the oil from the cylinder and too little fuel = melted pistons.
Very good point.
I really like your Thermal comments too.
I'm running 50/50 Alcohol water mix to cool my burn at max boost.
From Pintony

77turbopinto

Yes, fuel/air. I did not think I needed to get into the basics, but sorry for any confusion.

Keeping the "mix" correct is done better with EFI than with a carb (some will argue that). The "mix" needs to stay wiithin it's LEL and HEL to run an engine, but for the engine to run properly, make power and "survive", the mix needs to stay in a more narrow range (ratio) (the octaine of the fuel also comes into play). That's why (most) cars (and trucks) built today are efi. It helps with longevity (correct mix reduces engine wear), and emissions by using the least amout of fuel SAFELY to run the engine and make power at a given rpm and load.

When air (with or without fuel) is compressed, it gets hot (gives off heat). When compressed air is relased from, say an air tank, it will get cold (absorbs heat).

A N/A engine builds cylinder pressure (psi on compression) with the C/R. The higher the ratio, the higher the psi. A boosted engine builds it's "psi" during the compression of air(/fuel) that was forced into the clyinder AND the C/R, but the lower C/R reduces heat. To "turn up" the boost MORE safely, an I/C can be used to reduce more heat (more than one reason).

Introducing higher cylinder pressures (boost) to a engine that was made to be run N/A MIGHT be ok for a while (and fun to drive), but depending on boost applied and the engine itself, it can be very short lived. The failure I hear of the most is melted pistons (from heat I assume).

I also like when the use of I/C's on N/A engines is talked about.

Good topic Pintony.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Pintony

Hello Bill,
Thank you for your comment.
In your reply you mention AIR and I'll assume that you mean Air and Fuel.
Because an engine cylinder could be crammed with as much air as possible. BUT w/o fuel it does nothing.
Maybe I am wrong headed about this because I 'm "Old School" and running a carbed set-up on my Purple Pinto.
A turbocharged engine W/fuel injection is theoretically just air until the injector does it's job.
Let me see if I can clarify.
If an 8 to 1 engine can be boosted to a higher psi because it is a lower CR then there is not only more air there is more fuel. SAYING THAT THE A/F ratio is correct and the engine is not going lean because of improper fuel tuning.
I think Brad can shed some light here about a FI system having a lean condition. :angel:
From Pintony



77turbopinto

Quote from: Pintony on January 25, 2006, 11:53:43 PM
...If you have a stock Pinto CR of about 8 to 1  Vs. say 11 to 1 CR.
On the 8 to 1 engine you can put more air+fuel into the combustion chamber.
If you raise the CR to 11 to 1 then you get less air and fuel.
If you can cram say 11 to 1 CR into an 8 to 1 engine using a turbocharger @ 10 psi then you have more air and Fuel to expand Vs. the amount of area involved in turbocharging the 11 to 1 engine to 5psi...

You are correct, sort of.

Yes, you do get more air in, but an engine will not change it's CR with a turbo or supercharger. The pushed in air will still be compressed in the same ratio, just at a higher pressure. Simply, the higher CR = more heat, thats all. That is why a higher CR works great with a N/A engine (to a point).
Pulling in air vs. pushing in air = night vs. day.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Pintony

Hello Group,
I was getting pretty bored reading about parts wants from the members.
So I decided to start a topic of real discussion.
OK... here goes.
I was reading on one of the honda sites.."like I said I was bored"
Anyway... Those guys are arguing about running HIGH compression on Turbocharged engines being a GOOD thing.....
I read all the posts and no-one ever mentioned that the engine being an AIR pump.
Mostly I just think they are WRONG!
The bigger the quench area the bigger the bang.!
Let me theroize for a minuet.
If you have a stock Pinto CR of about 8 to 1  Vs. say 11 to 1 CR.
On the 8 to 1 engine you can put more air+fuel into the combustion chamber.
If you raise the CR to 11 to 1 then you get less air and fuel.
If you can cram say 11 to 1 CR into an 8 to 1 engine using a turbocharger @ 10 psi then you have more air and Fuel to expand Vs. the amount of area involved in turbocharging the 11 to 1 engine to 5psi.
If you can relate to this statement and have a view Please release me from my bordom and leave your coments.
From Pintony