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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

WILDEST INSANE ENGINE SWAP

Started by pintoperformance, November 02, 2003, 09:41:40 AM

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pinto_one

seen it done before but on a larger scale, But may be very easy If you had a pinto wagon and two of those SHO V-8 high out put engines , some welding  skills , (a good friend that works in a header factory that oues you a big favor) run the 16 pipes out the rear bumper, etc . nice , 4WD , nearly 500hp, shut down one engine for gas mileage,  priceless
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pintoguy76

1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

dholvrsn

'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

earthquake

73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

71hotrodpinto

I vote for a 427 SOHC engine with a "modern" all aluminum block, stroked to the max 500+cubes, 1471funny car supercharger,one of those nasty bug catchers from a funny car as well. All EFI'ed and running on E85.( 2000+HP) Pluss lets put a pro stock trans in there.
Oh yea while were dreaming lets keep the car relativly stock cept for the hood ( or lack of it) and keep it all steel with headlights, turnsignals and full interior.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm tasty :hypno: :2fast4u:


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

jimskatr103

1980 mercury bobcat (wrecked)
mint 1972 runabout- yellow
soon-to-have 76 bobcat v6

pintoguy76

Quote from: jimskatr103 on January 19, 2007, 11:48:54 PM
My honda loving friend wants me to put an f20c engine out of a Honda S2000 in one of my sitting pintos.  DOHC VTEC!! and a 9,000 redline!!

That post is so insane it should be deleted from the forum and your mind.
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

jimskatr103

My honda loving friend wants me to put an f20c engine out of a Honda S2000 in one of my sitting pintos.  DOHC VTEC!! and a 9,000 redline!!
1980 mercury bobcat (wrecked)
mint 1972 runabout- yellow
soon-to-have 76 bobcat v6

bluefordpinto

Im not much of a chevy fan, but i noticed a while back Chevrolet introduced a Hybrid Silverado pickup with theri 5.7l v-8. Its rear wheel drive, and hauls anything the truck is capapble of. I spoke with the owner of one and says he hauls his camper toy trailer loaded with his 3 quads, and sandrail no problem up hills. I havent gotten a good look at the truck, so im not sure how it works. but hybrid pinto, with that much tourqe and power would be insane.
GET 'ER DONE!!!!!!

postalpony



    In reply to dave 1957

     P-51 Mustangs never had P&W radials.  They were originally equipped with 1710 cubic inch Allison V12's.

    This engine was replaced with the Rolls Royce Merlin V12 for better performance at higher altitudes.

    Either of these engines would make an insane swap!!!!!  Driven from the rear hatch or bumper seat?

         :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:


      Dick
   
1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

pintoguy76

How about an all electric pinto? teehee. Electric motors make the same brake hp as a gasoline engine making two to three times the hp. so a 50 hp electric motor would produce the same power as a 100-150hp gasoline engine. And you can get the motor in a small size anymore and to run on a relativly low voltage. you'd just have to load the trunk and the back seat and everything else up with batteries so it would have a decent reserve capacity. LOL. Hey we said wild and insane... this would be it. I like the idea about the diesel pinto tho. I've thought about that myself.
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

dave1957

how about a pratt and whitney p 51 radial engine :q:
1979 bobcat
1974 red stinkbug
1979 orange pinto sedan aka project turbo hack
1979 orange pinto all glass hatch 52k

earthquake

One I saw in an old magazine, banks Twin turbo setup on a 494 in ford BB.A 1500 HP street machine made in 1974 using a 72 sedan totally street legal.Even had air conditioning.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

Original74

Hey Crazyhorse,

I had never heard of the SHOgun until 2004 when the guy who designed it showed up with one at a car show I attended here in Tulsa. I understand only 6 of these things were made, and Jay Leno owns 2 of them.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

crazyhorse

Anyone ever hear of a small car called the "SHOgun"?
How about a Taurus Sho engine where the back seat used to be?
They did this to a Festiva, how about a Pinto?
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

wagonmaster

"the DOHC v-6 out of a taurus is just as good as the v-6 in the pinto"

bluefordpinto,

Have you ever driven a V6 Pinto and a V6 Taurus SHO? I've had a few V6 Pintos and got to drive a friend's SHO. The SHO V6 would run circles around the 2.8L V6 in the Pinto/Mstg II. The SHO will wind up to RPMs that, if the 2.8 could even do it, would make the 2.8 self destruct. If I had the funds to do so, I would attempt a SHO swap into the Pinto for the power and the exotic look of the engine.
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

little thunder

Here's the wild one, a 71 with a 427 SOHC with a 871 GMC blower with two huge turbo and  air to water intercoolers!
would that be a wild street car or what?

                                                   little  thunder

DragonWagon

How about a blown hemi motor in the back seat? Maybe set it up similar to how the mid engine Fiero works? I mean, we are talking INSANE, right?   :hypno:
1976 mpg Wagon. The start of it all.
1977 Cruising Wagon, to be turboed.
1979 glass hatchback. No motor atm.
1980 wagon parts car.

FCANON

Did I mention I would keep the woodgrain and piant it purple?

I have looked at the 85 and up Desiel motors in the Ford rangers... Turbocharge Mitisbushi's I think but 2.3L displament...
the heads on these are a small fortune...

Frank
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Original74

Frank, I did just about that in 1980!. I bought a brand new naturally aspirated 60 HP Isuzu diesel engine, backed it with a Chevy Luv 4 speed. Made a tractor out of that Pinto! I pulled a 2000 lb pop-up tent trailer all over the place with that car. And it got 40 MPG to boot! You talk about a blast at the truck pumps!

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

FCANON

I've been kicking around making a turbo diesel 2.3 backed by a overdrive auto..Putting it into a Pinto Ranchero with smoke stacks....But I would have to narrow a dually rearend from a minitruck just to increase the kewl factor....please no applause

Frank

www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Gaslight

How about a Lexus 1UZFE 4 OHC all aluminum V8 with a W58 5 speed transmission hooked up with a AEM EMS standalone?  The LS400 has a front sump that will fit the Pinto crossmember perfectly.

Jake
My new answering machine message:   
"I am not available right now, but thank you for caring enough to call.
I am making some changes in my life.  Please leave a message after the beep.
If I do not return your call, you are one of the changes."

bluefordpinto

i dont wanna piss on anybody's thought bubble, but a diesel engine would be too heavy, streching the body and frame for a v-12 or v-16 is just stupid, and once you get down to it, the DOHC v-6 out of a taurus is just as good as the v-6 in the pinto. what i would like to see is the 6.4l ford triton V-10. with a monster butt blower, and a beefy rear end, the only problem i would see is re-locating the radiator to the rear to make more "room" and since some guys started talkin about diesels, maybe a 6.0l international used in todays ford trucks would work, its fairly light for a diesel. and is capapble of making gobs of power and torque. the gears be turning in our heads. now, who can make it real? any takers?
GET 'ER DONE!!!!!!

cromcru

for my crazy engine. i would use a 47-49 studebaker front sump champion six. with either a chevy s-10 fivespeed manual trans or a custom adapter plate for a c4/c5 auto.right now in waiting for tax time so i can pick up another motor.the champ six is very close to the same dimensions of a 2.3 ford pinto motor.so why not be different. for carbs i would use a custom intake and adapter to use two , one barrel sidedraft minuki carbs. plus all the other goodies still being made for the trusty champ.  :welcome:
79 bobcat  78 ford pinto station wagon   93 ford mustang lx   90 ford mustang cont lx  63 chevy truck    52 studebaker 2r16a

krazi

I've been thinking about the flathead out of my dad's '48 ford coupe. needs work though.
yeah, I'm Krazi!

crazyhorse

AWD? Hmmmm I've thought about that. Take a 4.0L Ranger engine, add the T-bird SC blower. Back it up with an AOD from an Aerostar AWD. Use a shortened GM S-10 front diff, put the brakes on the axle, then halfshafts to the wheels. How does inboard front brakes sound? Put in a Jag rear end, for a fully independent suspension.

I'm thinking about 400hp, a setback for the engine of about 8in. 50-50 weight distribution, look out 'Vettes, & Vipers! Oh yeah & that includes the Z-06's & Henneseys!
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

Srt

how about a 16 cylinder turbo diesel out of a late model GE locomotive.  6000 hp at only 1100-1200 rpm.  oil changes might be a bear though at 400 gallons.  now....who has a shoe horn?
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

wingless01

a perkins/ cat diesel 4cyl, like in the cat backhoes and small rollers.  Their not much bigger than the 2.3 so it could fit, its just a question of how you bolt a tranny to it.

douglasskemp

Wow.  Some very interesting ideas, but who here is sick enough to try to put an all-wheel drive setup out of a WRX or Volvo or old Eagle Talon?  I might try to do it to the old Mustang II Ghia I own that I haven't decided what to do with yet.  Maybe I can call it Quadradeuce...wait...somebody already did that...dang.
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

Pinto_Guy

I'm in the middle of putting a 500ci Caddy in a runabout.

I also have a wagon that I am getting tired of kids on Go-Peds beating me light to light, That car may get a Supercoupe engine that I have sitting under the work bench after the Caddy/Jag swap.