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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Ebay car values

Started by JoeBob, February 19, 2023, 12:00:13 AM

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caravan3921

"Ebay used to be a place that was fairly easy to find good deals without having to wait real long. Now the deals are few and far between; it's just a place to buy something because you can find it there."

Boy, you got that right! I used to actively sell on ebay all the time, it was fun selling off vintage Lionel train stuff to people excited about buying it, but now I only buy.  Ever since ebay changed their selling policies and require sellers to enter their personal bank info...no way are we giving ebay our personal banking info. There's a lot of internet complaining conversation about this as well.  It just doesn't seem right to me. (I still have more 1950s-era train stuff to re-home so maybe I'll have to try Craigslist.)

Reeves1

Had a guy visit & looked the car over real well.....then he offered 20k for it !
I told him the engine is worth that !
He went home without it......

65ShelbyClone

Ebay used to be a place that was fairly easy to find good deals without having to wait real long. Now the deals are few and far between; it's just a place to buy something because you can find it there.

I distinctly remember the "ask for twice what you expect to get" phenomenon emerging around the crash of '08. I think a lot of people started flipping to scrape-up money and those types would lowball half of your asking price, even if it was already reasonable. Those same people would try to flip for twice+ what they paid no matter how ridiculous that price ended up being. Non-flipper buyers caught on and would offer half, a haggle ensues, and the flipper would get something a little higher than they paid. And of course the televised auctions and picker/pawn/flipper shows served to further make it harder to be buyer of practically anything.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

caravan3921

I look at ebay a lot as well for ford pintos.  It's fun to monitor what's out there for sale. Although at the present time I'm not looking to buy.  I'm satisfied with our 1978 ford pinto.  We've owned it for nearly 20 years and it has brought a lot of joy. We've put a lot of money into it.  It goes into the shop today for a new battery. (Besides Jade, there was also Geraldine.  That car reminded me of the one featured on Charlie's Angels, driven by Kate Jackson.  I'd love to know who owns that one!) 

JoeBob

    It was 21 years ago that I bought my bobcat. I watched ebay everyday for 3 years until I found a car with potential. For me potential, meant no rust and a good engine. After that I put $7500 into the car.
    I look at ebay every day now for 24 years. I am not looking for a car I just like looking. It is possible you will find a beautiful car for $12,000  Other than Jade I have not seen one. If I recall correctly Jade needed thousands of dollars of work. Nothing had ever been done to it. Everything that deteriorates due to age, needed work on that car. The car you desire does exist, but it is likely you will look for years to find it.
    Best wishes     Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

caravan3921

I remember your car getting wrecked, and it broke my heart.
I remember the Jade and Geraldine Pintos. (I think they are both in California, owned by a collector.  A while back I dug around on the internet and found a story abou the guy. I may have even wrote his name down in my pinto notes.)
If something happens to our pinto we would replace, and not rebuild or restore, and I suspect we'd purchase at around $10-12,000.  We're having the conversation about the insurance aspect.




JoeBob

a member here used to make reproductions of Ford's hot pants kit. I don't remember his name. You can google "Ford hot pants" in images and see a poster of a red car with original sales information.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

davidpinto

I"M DIGGIN THOSE SPLASH GUARDS ,WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
D BARHAM

JoeBob

There was a well known car here called "Jade" it was a 79 hatch. The owner died one week after purchase. The widow did not drive, so it sat in the garage 30 or more years. The new owner carried it on a trailer to shows, never driving it. It had less than 1000 miles on it. When he sold it a few years ago, it was bought by a member here, if I remember right for $10,000. It was for sale a long time with no takers, at a higher price.
   If that car wasn't worth a higher price. I don't think anything is.    Collectors car insurance is low priced. I would insure your car for a much higher value. If you need to replace it or rebuild, it will cost much more. If you could find a comparable car you will still have to ship it to your location, plus it will need things that will make it your own.
    My car was wrecked 3 years ago through no fault of my own. The other persons insurance paid $2000. It made no difference that my car was pristine, that was book value.
My insurance made up the difference to the $5000 repair cost. I had $10,000 invested in my $2000 value car, just to make it showroom pristine. The car was insured at $10,000. That cost me $200.00 per year. I now insure it for $20,000 at a cost of $340.00 per year. I am old and can't build another car, If I loose my car again, I can hire a good builder to make what I want.
Bill 
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

Wittsend

My opinion on price likely isn't very valuable in your case. I tend to buy cars that are rather "worn" because I modify them by upgrading engine, transmission, seats etc.. Also, in California 1975 and older cars don't need to be smog tested. So, I would have little interest in a 1978 Pinto regardless of an immaculate condition.

  The #1 criteria for me is rust. That will in my mind devalue a car more than anything. Where as in most states a car rusts from the outside inward here in California I find water gets under the carpet and rusts a car from the inside outward. A car can be put up on a lift and look fine from the underside, but lifting the carpet often tells a sad story of hidden rust. Assuming your car has no rust (hidden or otherwise), has relatively low miles relative to its age and you find a buyer who desires a stock, unmodified Pinto at a place like a Barrett Jackson auction it MIGHT bring $10,000 plus or minus a few thousand. As a private sale it likely would be toward the lower side. But who knows. Scan the internet and see what similar cars bring. That should give you a ball park figure.

caravan3921

So what's your opinion and 'guessimate' for what my 1978 Pinto might be worth and sell for?.....I'll describe it to the best of my ability: 31,000 miles, always garaged, no dents or dings, moon roof, no cracks, rips or tears in seats, upholstery, headliner or dash, everything works and intact. A small rust spot the size of a dime on passenger door.  Since buying it we've maintained it to the best of our ability.  The car is not "perfect" because of its age, it's not shiny showroom, but it's awesome looking and everything works on it.  One mechanic said it's the best Pinto he's ever seen, and he had it up on the rack. (We bought it on ebay in 2005.  We would never sell it on ebay since ebay now requires sellers to enter personal banking information.)  At any rate, we have it insured for $6,000.

Wittsend

Even the most benign, 4 door, stated as "no rust" car (that is covered with at least surface rust), that has dents, broken glass, a tattered interior, either a bad engine/trans or none at all, flat tires and often no title seems to start at a $4,000 listing price. I think people see a $150,000 Road Runner sell to an inebriated Barrett Jackson buyer who had just inherited from their deceased parent..., and thinks their 4 door Plymouth Satellite looks enough like the Road Runner that it HAS to be worth at least 5% of the value. Yet it wasn't that long ago that was a sub $500 Satellite. Years ago no one would touch a 4 door 55-57 Chevy. Now the worse of those go for a $15,000 asking price.

So, reckless spending by foolish (momentarily wealthy) buyers set a high bar and misinformed people price their similar "junk" reflected off those prices. My experience is those cars sit FOREVER and never sell as the seller is too stubborn to price the car reasonably. The sad thing is others seen the over inflated price and think theirs is worth that too. If we haven't hit the peak, it is probably coming soon. The next generation is "Green" and old polluting, gas guzzling cars are not their desire. Some Millennial will probably sell his deceased grandfather's Hemi Cuda for $20,000 to but a mint, 1st generation collector I-Phone.

JoeBob

Every few years a trend starts on ebay where people overvalue their cars. For some reason they think old means valuable. Why would people list pintos on ebay without checking past sales?  An unrestored car Listing for $12,000-$20,000 I just want to scream at them stop wasting your time you idiot. But I guess it's there time to waste.Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9