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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts

Started by Svtcobra97, June 11, 2017, 10:01:25 AM

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Reeves1

Topic starter last active June 12 - it's the 18th.

Hope he checks in for the info.....if not, hope someone else benefits from this......

pinto_one

Same here , my last pinto will be the cruzer Wagon , when I retire soon I want to enjoy them and not work on them ,keep up the good work on yours , looks great 😁
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

Sold them to a guy in Calgary. V8 wagon. By the sounds of it, he had what may have been the Hooker Headers & he didn't like how they ran 2 tubes each side through the front wheel well.

At my age, the likelihood of me building yet another car is remote...... unless I win the lottery ?  ;D

Blue car will be my last one.....nearly done the SUB frames & will post pictures then....

pinto_one

Hang on to them , you never know you my use them again. I think the ones I had were just a little thicker , but just
enough to work, if only those sadistic engineers would have gave a few more inches in the engine bay😫
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

Those manifolds were on my car when I bought it & they worked perfect.
Lots of clearance.

pinto_one

Yep ,those bring back memories, the right side you have will work , only you will have to grind/cut off the chock stove ,yes it's that close , the left side would work but the pipe has to make a 45 angle right out of the end , I think I used a 67comet  or 68 manifold on the left side , sad when you lose old photos over the years of the stuff you had done over the years , thanks Reeves 👍
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

Found the pictures & part numbers.






Reeves1

Awesome to have this site for info like above !
Unlike FB, it's here for ever (I hope) for others info.

FB, and it's gone in days & many (at least me) are reluctant to re-post the info.......

pinto_one

Well we know you want to drop in a 302 and have it almost plug and play , it depends very much on what you have on hand , and the right parts that work , easy back 25 years ago , today kind of a pain but doable, last 302 swap I done was over 25 to thirty years ago , Dick and Reeves are very correct,  one the engine is offset some , and the mustang II mounts are how you put them on , if you do use them you will have to move the right side engine support from the side rails and move it back some and redrill/ weld , or just use two drivers side mounts , one of the (do to my age I forgot which one) mounts you have to drill a hole to clear the pin that sticks out from the engine mount , if you are going to use the C-4 try to find the mustang II bellhousing , small housing and tourqe converter , clears firewall , early 66 to 68 passenger side exhaust manifold, cut off choke stove , install pipe on manifold and bolt on when engine is bolted in , (very close here ) drivers side 289 or 302 early fairlane , 45 degree angle , clears everything, oil pan ,mustang ii, yep they are gold but a must , last you can go with the newer front timeing cover with the short water pump , but you will have to make provisions for the dip stick , as for me I made up my own short water pump,setup, used 66 289 timing cover , took a 66 289 water pump and disassemble it , measured the water pump seal to the end of the housing , took off the distance of the bearing length, cut off the extra length of the water pump housing , pressed the flange for the pulley untel it almost touches the bearing , cut off extra shaft on that end , press bearing into water pump housing untel 1/8 inch from seal , press on impeller , used the thin three bolt damper , made a aluminum top and bottom pulley , use 2.8  V6 radiator and have larger necks installed , turn the support on it backwards , the reason is you can trim the top of the frame on the carnand use spacers to move it very close to the front (worth a half inch ) , at least that is how I done it , hope this help some , and lastvuse the V 8 mustang II front springs , they fit . Later Blaine

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

What front springs are you going to use ?

Reeves1

I also put 90 degree fittings in my heater hoses:




NAPA
3/4 elbow connector 9925
5/8 elbow connector 9924

Behind the catch tank for the rad I reduced the 3/4 hose to 5/8 with reducer connector 9911

Used banded clamps. Looks much nicer when no rubber/silicone is sticking through the slots.

Reeves1

Quote from: dick1172762 on June 12, 2017, 05:34:08 PM
If the Mustang II frame and motor mounts were a "mess", you've really got problems as most V8 Pintos use them. Did you have the Mustang II oil pan and bellhousing/tranie? You must have all these parts or be good at making your own. No short cuts are allowed on this swap.

Forgot about the bell. Use the smaller two.
I think one is 141 tooth flywheel ?
Next is 157 (what I use) - along with matching bell.

If you have the 164 (162 ?) it's too big....

Reeves1

What did I miss..... ?

Hard to tell someone on line how to go about this & make it easy etc.........

Reeves1

Water pump I use from Ford Racing is part # M-8501-E351S

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-8501-E351S

Allows an extra 1.5" of space at the front of the engine.

For pulleys, I use them for the above app are from CVF Racing.

http://www.cvfracing.com/ford-v-belt-billet-pulleys-s/33.htm

Make sure to call them to place the order & tell them what water pump & year of engine you are running.

Reeves1

Oil pan I like to use is part Milodon part # 30925

Says for up to 73. It works on newer blocks as well. The difference is where the dip stick is. 73 down had them in the timing chain cover. 73 up in the side of the block. To use on a newer block, tap the hole for a screw in plug & plug it, then use a timing chain cover with the dip stick.

Note : all the hardware that you will need is listed there as well. Min you will need is the pick up.

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street-oil-pans-ford73.asp

Reeves1

Best mounts I've used in pictures below. Note the factor pin. Part number should be visible (click on white box to see bigger ?)







Any SBF Ford Mustang mount with this pin can be used.
Adjustment is made when you make the frame mount.
Make it out of .125 plate min, with gussets . Pipe bolt will go through for the long bolt is advised, between ears.
Very easy to make....


If your engine isn't going to be big power, these will do just fine.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/motor-mount-289-302-351w-351c-11-1-1965-1972/p/MM2257/

dick1172762

If the Mustang II frame and motor mounts were a "mess", you've really got problems as most V8 Pintos use them. Did you have the Mustang II oil pan and bellhousing/tranie? You must have all these parts or be good at making your own. No short cuts are allowed on this swap.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Reeves1

Mll mounts & exhaust manifolds are for an off set engine.
I gave a set of Mll frame mounts away because I knew I'd never use them......

Manifolds I was talking of, part numbers, are in the shop (ie: for used)

But the ones you are looking for: http://www.cjponyparts.com/1964-1973-mustang-exhaust/c/10070000/?p=2

HiPo ones: http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-exhaust-manifold-pair-289-hi-po-1965-1967/p/EXM4/

Standard ones: http://www.cjponyparts.com/exhaust-manifold-pair-260-289-302-1965-1970/p/EXM3/

Svtcobra97

The plan is to use Mustang II exhaust manifolds but if there is a better alternative then I'm all in.  Also I hate to keep bringing is up but we first tried to use Mustang II motor/frame mounts and that turned into a real mess.  The advice I'm getting here and elsewhere is greatly appreciated and is helping.  My goal is to drive the car to Cleveland in August.

Reeves1


Wittsend

In a recent post I mentioned a friend who did a 289 swap back in the 70's. he used the cast manifold. They were inverted. Meaning the swept upward and forward with the pipes making a roughly 180 degree turn. At the time I thought it looked strange. Today it makes very practical sense though clearance at the crossmember was still tight. I can't remember if he went over or (yikes) under it.

Reeves1

As mentioned on FB....

Drop the engine in close to where you want it. It will need to be tilted back, so you can bolt the bell & trans on, from under car.

Then drop engine down to where you want clearance over the rack. Again, how much it clears will depend on how much movement is in your mounts. Keep TQ in mind : it will lift on the left & push down on the right.
Set it back so it just clears the firewall.
Center the engine.
Line trans tail shaft up with diff. Imagine (or use) a string line from the center of the crank, through trans to diff.
Trans mount may need to move left. right, up or down. Depends on which mount you are using - you may need to get another to fit your needs.

After it's all placed & will not move, make the frame mounts.
Tack weld in place - remove engine/tran & weld frame mounts in place.

I'd guess you plan on using cast exhaust manifolds ?
66 Mustang works best. I'll see if I can find the part numbers....

Wittsend

Have not done the swap myself but that advise makes sense. The car will become front heavy and every inch forward only increases that. Plus, if you did work front to back you would have to move the trans/driveshaft (alterations) forward to no advantage.  I often use Google Images to help me in these situations. You obviously won't get exact measurements but at least you will get an idea of how it goes.

Svtcobra97

Hey there V8 swappers.  I'm in the middle of my own V8 swap by putting a SBF into my 1977 wagon.  My question here is that during the mock up phase the placement of the motor/frame mounts became a concern.  I was wondering what the distance from the motor mounts to the firewall typically is so that I could determine if I'm in the neighborhood before proceeding any further.  I have been told that the best way to determine this distance is to work from the transmission location and work forward.  What worked for you with your builds?  any suggests/idea would be appreciated.  Thanks.