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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Value of these Pintos from Hagerty

Started by dianne, June 10, 2015, 07:02:46 AM

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dianne

Quote from: mrskydog on June 23, 2015, 09:48:56 AM
Hagerty insured my 80 Rallye for 10,000 replacement value. Provided Pics and documentation.

That's all you need to do :) Hopefully they will on my 79...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

mrskydog

Hagerty insured my 80 Rallye for 10,000 replacement value. Provided Pics and documentation.
"Living the Dream...Driving Old Fords"
1965 Mustang 2+2 Fastback
1980 Pinto Rallye 32,000 Org.
1972 Maverick Grabber V-8 car
2005 Mustang

dianne

Quote from: ponyboy on June 22, 2015, 02:34:17 PM
I have my 1973 Squire wagon insured with them. It is in excellent condition but not like new. I have it insured for $3600, though I figure it is worth around $5000. It has a 2.0L cylinder that I rebuilt myself (I have been a professional mechanic for 36 years) with a Weber carb and headers, and a few other little tweaks. I drive it about 50 miles a week, usually all on the same day. It is very difficult to drive it here (Phoenix, AZ) in the summer because of the intense heat. I usually get up before sunrise, drive it to a local restaurant that opens early, have breakfast, then get back home before it gets hot. The A/C does not work, and it would cost more than I want to spend on it right now to fix it. Pretty much all the A/C parts are gone, so it would need an aftermarket system. I just can't see that for 50 miles a week. Mine came with all the options but the automatic. It has a four speed, which I like better anyway. My main reason for insuring it with Hagerty is because it will not pass emissions without a ton of work, which has to be done every year, then I have to put it all back the way it was to make it driveable, again, all for 50 miles per week. Believe it or not, AZ emissions goes back to 1966. Even CA only goes back to 1975. Hagerty has other restrictions. They don't like cars that look like they were designed for competition, and won't insure any car with a roll cage.I pay $122 a year for basic coverage, with 15 miles of towing. Unfortunately, just about everywhere I go is around 25 miles away, and my regular road service plan will not cover a car over 20 years old. If it weren't for the emissions thing, I would just put basic minimum liability on it. $3600 is peanuts, and will not replace such a rare car. I can take this thing to a local weekly car show, and it gets a lot more attention than a completely restored '67 Corvette. People "expect" to see cars like that at a car show, but seeing a Pinto Squire wagon makes them do a double take. I have been offered as much as $6000 and turned it down. I know that's a killer deal, but when the money was gone, the car would be too, and I would seriously regret it. $6000 is pocket change to many people, while this car actually means something to me. 1973 was the year I started high school. And I have always loved woodgrain wagons, even 4 door ones, as long as they are RWD.[/size]

That was the year I graduated. I guess these are in the eyes of the beholder. I talked to Hagerty again, though it is possible to insure it for more, you just have to provide documentation on the car. Pictures are a big thing also!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ponyboy

I have my 1973 Squire wagon insured with them. It is in excellent condition but not like new. I have it insured for $3600, though I figure it is worth around $5000. It has a 2.0L cylinder that I rebuilt myself (I have been a professional mechanic for 36 years) with a Weber carb and headers, and a few other little tweaks. I drive it about 50 miles a week, usually all on the same day. It is very difficult to drive it here (Phoenix, AZ) in the summer because of the intense heat. I usually get up before sunrise, drive it to a local restaurant that opens early, have breakfast, then get back home before it gets hot. The A/C does not work, and it would cost more than I want to spend on it right now to fix it. Pretty much all the A/C parts are gone, so it would need an aftermarket system. I just can't see that for 50 miles a week. Mine came with all the options but the automatic. It has a four speed, which I like better anyway. My main reason for insuring it with Hagerty is because it will not pass emissions without a ton of work, which has to be done every year, then I have to put it all back the way it was to make it driveable, again, all for 50 miles per week. Believe it or not, AZ emissions goes back to 1966. Even CA only goes back to 1975[/size]Hagerty has other restrictions. They don't like cars that look like they were designed for competition, and won't insure any car with a roll cage.I pay $122 a year for basic coverage, with 15 miles of towing. Unfortunately, just about everywhere I go is around 25 miles away, and my regular road service plan will not cover a car over 20 years old. If it weren't for the emissions thing, I would just put basic minimum liability on it. $3600 is peanuts, and will not replace such a rare car. I can take this thing to a local weekly car show, and it gets a lot more attention than a completely restored '67 Corvette. People "expect" to see cars like that at a car show, but seeing a Pinto Squire wagon makes them do a double take. I have been offered as much as $6000 and turned it down. I know that's a killer deal, but when the money was gone, the car would be too, and I would seriously regret it. $6000 is pocket change to many people, while this car actually means something to me. 1973 was the year I started high school. And I have always loved woodgrain wagons, even 4 door ones, as long as they are RWD.

dianne

Quote from: mcjbob on June 17, 2015, 02:16:50 AM

When I purchased my 77 Pinto Squire about 5 years ago, I contacted Hagerty to add Sweet Pea to my policy. While on the phone, I was told that the $12,500 coverage I was requesting was above their limit for this specific car, but if I could supply photos they would consider. While on the phone, I sent photos by email attachments. While still on the phone, the rep sent my photos to their inhouse underwriter, and within a minute my requested coverage was approved. One call, just a few minutes, Hagerty approved my coverage.

Shown with Sweet Pea is Wayne Carini from Chasing Classic Cars.

You have to work with them as you and I have said. You have to prove the car has that value.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

From the photo it look better than NEW ,  sweet

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

mcjbob




When I purchased my 77 Pinto Squire about 5 years ago, I contacted Hagerty to add Sweet Pea to my policy. While on the phone, I was told that the $12,500 coverage I was requesting was above their limit for this specific car, but if I could supply photos they would consider. While on the phone, I sent photos by email attachments. While still on the phone, the rep sent my photos to their inhouse underwriter, and within a minute my requested coverage was approved. One call, just a few minutes, Hagerty approved my coverage.



Shown with Sweet Pea is Wayne Carini from Chasing Classic Cars.

74 Squire, 3rd owner, 136,000 miles
77 Squire, 3rd owner, 26,000 miles
63 Vette Roadster, 1st owner, 380,000 miles
61 Bonneville 2dr hardtop, 3rd owner, 61,000 miles
78 Ferrari 308 GTS, 2nd owner, 40,000 miles
29 Model A Ford Roadster Pu, 2nd owner, mileage unknown

dianne

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 14, 2015, 05:56:15 AM
Was going to have a bigger 15 gal tank made & decided not to.

If I take it easy I can / maybe get 100 + miles per tank ?
Far enough for me.
Going to be a loud car as well. 3" exhaust dumping in front of the rear tires, is the reason I didn't bother trying to get the AM radio to work  ;D

Gonna be one wicked cool car :) LOL But that like 62 miles. For me that would be more than enough around town. Hope you get some videos of it running :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Reeves1

Was going to have a bigger 15 gal tank made & decided not to.

If I take it easy I can / maybe get 100 + miles per tank ?
Far enough for me.
Going to be a loud car as well. 3" exhaust dumping in front of the rear tires, is the reason I didn't bother trying to get the AM radio to work  ;D

dianne

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 12, 2015, 07:27:25 AM
Mileage not likely be an issue for me.
An 11 gallon tank & likely get 6 - 8 MPG ?
Not going to go far, without a chase truck hauling fuel  ;D

It will be a pretty cool car though :) Have you thought about getting a bigger tank in there at all? Is it even possible?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 12, 2015, 08:26:52 AM
Guess with your engine you can pull a small tanker for those long trips,  back in the early 80s I had a Honda CBX that got better mileage when I tossed it in the back of my Diesel VW rabbit pickup truck, yep it got more mpg than the bike did , even when hauling it,

That's a cool bike BTW :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Guess with your engine you can pull a small tanker for those long trips,  back in the early 80s I had a Honda CBX that got better mileage when I tossed it in the back of my Diesel VW rabbit pickup truck, yep it got more mpg than the bike did , even when hauling it,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

Mileage not likely be an issue for me.
An 11 gallon tank & likely get 6 - 8 MPG ?
Not going to go far, without a chase truck hauling fuel  ;D

dianne

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 12, 2015, 06:55:37 AM
Yes Hagerty is here.
Will be looking into that when things get closer to road time.

They do have a mileage limitation also. It can't be a daily driver and has to be stored in a garage. The mileage is like 1 to 3k per year, but you'll be able to do more they said. Just check when you do it. You can also insure it while the build is going. I think you'll be surprised at how cheap it is. My two with a value of $3500 and $6500 is only around $206/yr. Tools are also insured :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Reeves1

Yes Hagerty is here.
Will be looking into that when things get closer to road time.

dianne

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 11, 2015, 09:53:37 AM
Wonder what they would say about mine, after I tell them the engine alone is worth 20k ! LOL !

Yours is a pencil bumper so has a higher valve. When you call and can provide documentation on the build they will insure it for that. If I redo the interior of the 79, I would be able to increase over the valve for the replacement valve of the car.

You'd be fine Reeves. Is Hagerty in Canada also?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Reeves1

Wonder what they would say about mine, after I tell them the engine alone is worth 20k ! LOL !

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 10, 2015, 10:39:21 AM
So with that new info I just reduced the value of my car by putting newer bumpers on it , oh the pain ,   80 pinto bumpers cut down to fit my Commutacar ,

I love that thing. When you first posted it I looked on ebay and they are for sale once in awhile. It's all about the value that the insurance company finds on these cars. I never asked about a 74, and that might be higher than the 79 for all I know and close to the 73 with pencil bumpers.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

So with that new info I just reduced the value of my car by putting newer bumpers on it , oh the pain ,   80 pinto bumpers cut down to fit my Commutacar ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dga57

I really can't imagine the bumpers having anything to do with it, but I've never insured with Hagerty.  State Farm has always insured everything I've ever owned (old or new) and they had no problems with my two '79 Lincolns, my Rolls-Royce, or my two '72 Pintos.  I don't think being "close to the 1980's" is going to have anything to do with it either.  In Virginia a car can be registered and insured once it has passed the 25 year mark... that means that 1990 models will be eligible next year!  Time marches on!  My guess is that it's simply a matter of aesthetics and your '79 is nowhere near as nice looking as the wagon.  If you bring it up to the same level, it should qualify for a higher amount of agreed value coverage. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 10, 2015, 07:57:09 AM
Never had the value of old car insurance on any of my cars, only when they were new and me and the bank owned them,😜 but on a few aircraft that I have owned I have brought insurance on what I said they were worth, hull value, and you payed for it, 750 bucks a year for a 40k airplane , or 1500 bucks a year for 90K on my old 1951 airplane, so I guess you can ask them if you can set a value ( with a straight face ) and pay for it, and it also depends where you live and how high is the chance you are going to get nailed , I know when I move away from New Orleans my insurance dropped in half ,

I'm in Idaho, not too many accidents. I guess that the rates are low. I was just surprised that the bumpers were the issues or being close to the 80s. I was also surprised at the value of my 73 wagon and what they say they are selling for.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Never had the value of old car insurance on any of my cars, only when they were new and me and the bank owned them,😜 but on a few aircraft that I have owned I have brought insurance on what I said they were worth, hull value, and you payed for it, 750 bucks a year for a 40k airplane , or 1500 bucks a year for 90K on my old 1951 airplane, so I guess you can ask them if you can set a value ( with a straight face ) and pay for it, and it also depends where you live and how high is the chance you are going to get nailed , I know when I move away from New Orleans my insurance dropped in half ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

I bound my policies yesterday on my car. The problem was with the 79 runabout and not the 73 wagon getting the turbo. The 73 wagon, even without the turbo, they had no problem doing $6,000 with the pictures I sent. No problem with more after the turbo is installed and the car finished.

The 79 they say should value around 2k only. I had to send a ton of pictures of the engine rebuild, the new wiring harness being built and it was a fight to get them to agree on 3k. The minimum is $3,500 on a classic car also. This caused another problem with the car actually. We now have more issues with the car if I sink too much into it, which I probably will. I'm documenting it on my 79 build, but they don't have value yet. I asked why and they just said it's getting close to the 80s and the 80s cars are still being deprecated and so on.

I didn't ask about the bumpers being the problem with the big ones.

Who uses Hagerty and who is insuring the later models with them?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied