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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

EFI engine up too high

Started by dianne, June 08, 2015, 07:13:34 AM

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dianne

Well, looks like I want that on the wagon and the 79 :) I looked on ebay and there seems to be some options. In 1978 I remember an X put a unit in on a 78 Monte Carlo.

Yep, will take them on some road trips, so yeah, gotta do it!

Thanks guys!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Guess I went the easy way one my cruse control,  first I was going to the u pull it and take off one off a ford but started thinking of a easy way out , so I brought one from Dakota Digital , and had the old style lever on the turn leaver , looks so 70s (I like it ) but I put the cable unit under the dash and ran the cable through where the clutch cable would go if I had a clutch, tied it into my vss sensor on the trans , reason for putting the controller inside is that heat kills these things over time being under the hood,  after I used it for a few long trip I wish I done it Long ago,  good that Wittsend Has it installed and just a few things to hook up, and after he does it will be very enjoyable and up graded pinto,   
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Wittsend

Quote from: dianne on June 11, 2015, 07:01:26 AM
Honestly, that sounds awesome to have that on the car :) There are a ton to T-Birds at the yard here that I can grab one from. And for the cruise, you just hooked that in also?

Well, again I had the complete donor T/C and that simplifies the matter.  I don't even have my system functional - yet.   And, I believe I still need to intigrate the electronic speed sensor into the manual speedometer cable to do so. There are a number of additional parts involved.  The linkage on the throttle body, the vacuum servo/cable, the controller box, switches on the steering wheel, a column wired for such. In addition there is wiring into the brake system. There is even a vacuum line that vents the vacuum servo as soon as the brake pedal moves.  All this has some integration in the ECU.

So, attempting to piece it together has the potential to be very probmatic. Pinto_One seems to have a Cruise Control functional so he can better advise how he put his together.

dianne

Quote from: 76hotrodpinto on June 11, 2015, 09:52:30 AM
I got about a 1/4" of squish on the motor mounts by tightening the bolt that holds the top to the bottom of the mount. My mounts are old and soft though. Not sure how that translates in to hood clearance yet though.

Not certain on the clearance, it's not a lot that it needs on mine. The turbo in the 72 will be an issue I know.

BTW, heater cores for this on Rock Auto was only $19.95 on clearance, there are a few more there.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

76hotrodpinto

I got about a 1/4" of squish on the motor mounts by tightening the bolt that holds the top to the bottom of the mount. My mounts are old and soft though. Not sure how that translates in to hood clearance yet though.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

dianne

Quote from: Wittsend on June 10, 2015, 03:30:03 PM
No, not at all. I opted to use the T/C column by choice. I wanted the tilt steering and the cruise control aspects.

I also kept the T/C wiring separate by choice. I wanted it to be "stand alone" from the Pinto wiring for the sake of trouble shooting.  It was also helpful (for me) since I was electing to use the factory relay box for the fans and fuel pump. I had more faith in swapping over a harness (T/C)  that had the extraneous removed than I did in being additive to the Pinto harness.  My swap was built from a complete donor car so these things were all no cost options I elected to do.

As to the ECU it is in the side foot well like it was in the T/C. Since I don't drive from that side..., I have no complaints. :-)

Honestly, that sounds awesome to have that on the car :) There are a ton to T-Birds at the yard here that I can grab one from. And for the cruise, you just hooked that in also?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Wittsend

Quote from: dianne on June 10, 2015, 06:54:46 AM
Ouch, do you mean my 73 is a problem now? That I need the steering column also? I mean I can get one.

No, not at all. I opted to use the T/C column by choice. I wanted the tilt steering and the cruise control aspects.

I also kept the T/C wiring separate by choice. I wanted it to be "stand alone" from the Pinto wiring for the sake of trouble shooting.  It was also helpful (for me) since I was electing to use the factory relay box for the fans and fuel pump. I had more faith in swapping over a harness (T/C)  that had the extraneous removed than I did in being additive to the Pinto harness.  My swap was built from a complete donor car so these things were all no cost options I elected to do.

As to the ECU it is in the side foot well like it was in the T/C. Since I don't drive from that side..., I have no complaints. :-)

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 09, 2015, 08:33:19 AM
Also I forgot is to where to place the computer, I stick mine right above the glove box on a half tray, it's dry and high and where I can get to it, all of the wires from the computer go through the firewall above the A/C unit, all of the wire you strip from the donor car will be long enough , and most will have to be shortened big time,

Yeah, we were planning on placing it in there :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 09, 2015, 08:21:39 AM
No did not have to merge the two harness, just added to it, the pinto harness just has a few wires that deal with the engine , one is for spark , the others is for water and oil idiot lights,  so what I do is to keep it simple is treat the engine and computer as one system, wire it all on one side , plugs for sensors ,TPS sensors, ign harness and any other sensors, like temp air charge , vss, O2 , and use a relay to turn it all on , the org wire to the coil will turn on the relay ,  or in short it's like running a computer controlled engine on the shop floor, not like the old engine you hook up a fuel can to the fuel pump and a hot wire to a coil , done this to my last one , I do this in case I have a short and do not have engine computer wires crossing the pinto wires, but to each there own, keep it neat , or the hair you pull out later will leave a large bald spot on each side of your head 😜

Three of us working on this one. We're also going to hide the wires so it's going to be real clean. Hearing what I could insure this car for with Hagerty just blew me away :( And not in a good way.

I should document this for anyone wanting to do it this way I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: Wittsend on June 09, 2015, 01:40:01 PM
On my '73 wagon turbo swap I did not merge the harnesses.  I used the Turbo Coupe steering column and thus the T/C fusebox, charging wiring, fuel pump & fan relay in addition to the actual engine wiring. So, yes (stupid me - see image), I took the most difficult swap (wiring wise) and made it more difficult.  The only point of integration was for the turn signal/emergency flasher and horn.  For that I just pillaged a Pinto column connector with 6" of wire still connected and hooked it appropriately to the T/C column. Otherwise the original Pinto wiring and the T/C wiring are distinct and separate.

Ouch, do you mean my 73 is a problem now? That I need the steering column also? I mean I can get one.

The 79 isn't as bad as we thought it would be. We're swapping wiring from one harness and mixing it with the other. I'll document the stuff for the next one.

It looks like the 73 with the turbo swap will be an issue though. I need to read your thread on this I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Wittsend

You know everything has been in place for years now, but for some reason I have never completed the hook up. The control box is under the dash. The brake switch and vacuum bleed is installed. The vacuum diaphragm in under the drives fender. I guess I struggled for years to get the engine running right that it just slipped by. Got to find my growing "for summer" list and add that too.

This just brings to mind all the stuff I've "hidden" under the fenders. The VAM and air cleaner, the Cruise Control vacuum diaphragm, the T/C transplanted washer bottle and lastly the T/C charcoal emissions canister. I'm not even sure why I put the canister there. I never hooked it up either. LOL

pinto_one

Well break out the thumb screws and thumb tacks for snacks, I thought I was the only one here into S & M  ( splice and match )  hope you hooked up the Cruze control button on the wheel, I sure like mine on long trips , 😀
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Wittsend

Quote from: dianne on June 09, 2015, 06:39:35 AM
Now I'm worried about that turbo going into the 73 wagon since I've read and had people say that the 73 is tough to get a turbo into. I'll see the issues as I move along.
Witts, did you combine both wiring harnesses and the ECU?

On my '73 wagon turbo swap I did not merge the harnesses.  I used the Turbo Coupe steering column and thus the T/C fusebox, charging wiring, fuel pump & fan relay in addition to the actual engine wiring. So, yes (stupid me - see image), I took the most difficult swap (wiring wise) and made it more difficult.  The only point of integration was for the turn signal/emergency flasher and horn.  For that I just pillaged a Pinto column connector with 6" of wire still connected and hooked it appropriately to the T/C column. Otherwise the original Pinto wiring and the T/C wiring are distinct and separate.

pinto_one

Also I forgot is to where to place the computer, I stick mine right above the glove box on a half tray, it's dry and high and where I can get to it, all of the wires from the computer go through the firewall above the A/C unit, all of the wire you strip from the donor car will be long enough , and most will have to be shortened big time,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

No did not have to merge the two harness, just added to it, the pinto harness just has a few wires that deal with the engine , one is for spark , the others is for water and oil idiot lights,  so what I do is to keep it simple is treat the engine and computer as one system, wire it all on one side , plugs for sensors ,TPS sensors, ign harness and any other sensors, like temp air charge , vss, O2 , and use a relay to turn it all on , the org wire to the coil will turn on the relay ,  or in short it's like running a computer controlled engine on the shop floor, not like the old engine you hook up a fuel can to the fuel pump and a hot wire to a coil , done this to my last one , I do this in case I have a short and do not have engine computer wires crossing the pinto wires, but to each there own, keep it neat , or the hair you pull out later will leave a large bald spot on each side of your head 😜
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 09, 2015, 06:54:05 AM
Over the years I always found you make small not noticeable changes to parts to make them fit , done one back in the late eighties and yep the intake was just touching the hood at the TB, my fix was to remove the upper and lower intake manifold, I put the lower one in my Bridgeport and milled at a slight angle to the inside plus 3/16 of an inch lower where the upper manifold bolts to, then cleaned it up and reinstalled it, done the same ti the upper intake as well and after had just enough to to clear the hood, had to rotate the turbo outlet down to fit then , hope this gives you some extra choses, later Blaine

I don't mind the scope honestly. If I were to cut the supports for the hood it would fit also. I guess I'm going to place a scoop on it. I want it as easy as possible, now that probably an oxymoron. LOL

Blaine,

When you did the swap, did you have to merge the two harnesses? Looking like what we are going to do on this swap.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Bigtimmay

I got and 88 turbo motor in my bobcat its clears easily guess the different hood on them is a good thing not just because its different. As for the blocks they are all the same other then the turbo blocks have a hole for the turbo drain they didn't change blocks till 89 in rangers and 91 in mustangs when they went 8 plug and small journal crank.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

pinto_one

Over the years I always found you make small not noticeable changes to parts to make them fit , done one back in the late eighties and yep the intake was just touching the hood at the TB, my fix was to remove the upper and lower intake manifold, I put the lower one in my Bridgeport and milled at a slight angle to the inside plus 3/16 of an inch lower where the upper manifold bolts to, then cleaned it up and reinstalled it, done the same ti the upper intake as well and after had just enough to to clear the hood, had to rotate the turbo outlet down to fit then , hope this gives you some extra choses, later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: Wittsend on June 08, 2015, 10:28:15 PM
The 87-88 T/C's have a lower valve cover (center part) and thus a lower throttle body. That said, I had to shave down the upper TB and intake mating surface to the point that I was concern I'd show threads (see front upper bolt hole) and there is still only 1/16" clearance with the hood. Not sure if later Pinto's had more clearance than my '73.

You can see glue in the picture where I had a thin piece of closed cell foam about 1/8" thick. It had to go because it caused more vibration than it eliminated. It's that close. Internally the hood drops to the side/front very fast. I cut down the "D" shaped projection on the top of the intake, and  I even had to round off the vacuum tap too.

Nothing like a little clay or plumbers putty, a watchful eye and a gentle hood closure to detect the high spots.

It's up high. I don't have my 73 here to see what's going on between the two. The engine is really up high though Witts. I'm thinking I'll just cut out some of the hood and add a scoop for it instead of playing with the engine to get it in. This is from a Fox Body mustang, an 87. The block is stamped as a Thunderbird turbo as I said in the original thread, and wondered if they used blocks across the models. Once the transmission is in, I'll see how wide and long that scoop has to be I guess.

Now I'm worried about that turbo going into the 73 wagon since I've read and had people say that the 73 is tough to get a turbo into. I'll see the issues as I move along.

Witts, did you combine both wiring harnesses and the ECU?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Wittsend

The 87-88 T/C's have a lower valve cover (center part) and thus a lower throttle body. That said, I had to shave down the upper TB and intake mating surface to the point that I was concern I'd show threads (see front upper bolt hole) and there is still only 1/16" clearance with the hood. Not sure if later Pinto's had more clearance than my '73.

You can see glue in the picture where I had a thin piece of closed cell foam about 1/8" thick. It had to go because it caused more vibration than it eliminated. It's that close. Internally the hood drops to the side/front very fast. I cut down the "D" shaped projection on the top of the intake, and  I even had to round off the vacuum tap too.

Nothing like a little clay or plumbers putty, a watchful eye and a gentle hood closure to detect the high spots.

dianne

Quote from: pintosopher on June 08, 2015, 02:11:41 PM
Just break the bank, go to sidedraft throttle bodies. It'll bring the Coool factor to a new level.  ;)

No thanks, a hood scoop is cheaper :P
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pinto5.0

Just cut & weld the upper elbow like the turbo guys do to shorten it & aim the throttle body towards the front.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Pintosopher

Just break the bank, go to sidedraft throttle bodies. It'll bring the Coool factor to a new level.  ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dianne

Quote from: Pintocrazed on June 08, 2015, 07:31:25 AM
IF I REMEMBER RIGHT I READ ON HERE AND OTHER SIGHTS THAT THERE IS A UPPER PART WHERE THE THROTLLE BODY BOLTS THAT IS SHORTER.THATS THE END OF MY KNOWLEDGE ON IT

Looks like I have to add a scoop where the EFI components are since it's up higher.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pintocrazed

IF I REMEMBER RIGHT I READ ON HERE AND OTHER SIGHTS THAT THERE IS A UPPER PART WHERE THE THROTLLE BODY BOLTS THAT IS SHORTER.THATS THE END OF MY KNOWLEDGE ON IT

dianne

Did anyone here have a problem with the engine being too high and hitting the hood? Did you all put a scoop on it to have the clearance?

Wiring is now coming up, ouch. That one is a pain it looks like.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied