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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

engine swap or not???

Started by bassplayerbell, May 10, 2015, 08:40:56 AM

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65ShelbyClone

Quote from: dianne on May 31, 2015, 12:17:38 PMThere are a bunch of fox bodies at the track getting that much now.

I don't doubt it, but those are track cars.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

dianne

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on May 30, 2015, 05:01:30 PM
Since it was mentioned earlier, the last thing I would do in search of more power is swap from a V6 to a non-turbo 2.3. I know Esslinger has a full complement of aftermarket parts for the Lima, but it takes a pretty serious effort to get even 200bhp out of one. A basic non-intercooled 2.3T does that stock, but that swap is whole other can of worms.

I say stick with the Cologne V6 engine family. I think an Explorer/Ranger pushrod 4.0 (160hp/240ft-lbs) would be interesting, but I think there are issues with getting a front-sump oil pan. The 4.0 crank in a 2.9 might be an option...

We're boring the mini stock 40 over and shaving everything along with a cam, dual springs, and a cam adjuster. I think you can reach it. There are a bunch of fox bodies at the track getting that much now. Crank done also and flat head pistons.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

65ShelbyClone

Since it was mentioned earlier, the last thing I would do in search of more power is swap from a V6 to a non-turbo 2.3. I know Esslinger has a full complement of aftermarket parts for the Lima, but it takes a pretty serious effort to get even 200bhp out of one. A basic non-intercooled 2.3T does that stock, but that swap is whole other can of worms.

I say stick with the Cologne V6 engine family. I think an Explorer/Ranger pushrod 4.0 (160hp/240ft-lbs) would be interesting, but I think there are issues with getting a front-sump oil pan. The 4.0 crank in a 2.9 might be an option...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

pinto_one

More info,  if you want to upgrade a few more things since you have the engine out , one is to use the small 91 up starter for the 4.0' spins the crap out the engine and uses less amps to do it , yep it's same and save a few lbs ,  next is the oil filter , the adaptor on the side of the 2.9 uses the FL -1'A filter , not the hard to find 2.8 one, I done the remote and moved it to the front of the engine mount , still bolted to the engine , now I do not have oil running down my arm and filling up my armpit , I have a few photos posted on the members albums of it and the new trans mount for the over drive , and I used the bronco II speedometer cable to hook to the vss speed sensor on the trans to the speedometer , yep it all bolts up , and if you have a friend at a machine shop you can drop a 4.0 crank in the 2.9 block to make it a 3.5 , anything else just ask here , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

The ranger/bronco II and the Scorpio is the same engine , But ! , on the Scorpio it top of the intake manifold is shorter , and the Pistons have a dish instead of a step in them , I used the dished in mine to bump up the compression just a tad, last is the computer it up to you , I am towing a 2000lb pluss camper so I use the truck computer , the Scorpio has more hp so that may be the one for you , mild cam and find a chip will help more , my wife's 90 bronco II had over 300k on the engine before the trans took a dump, so the engine will give you years of service , that trans you have is a C-3 and is not a bad trans when taken care of, it is the father of the A4LD trans , that is why it is almost a bolt in, they never made a 2.9 carb engine , but again over in Europe they do make them, burton power make one but it takes three webers , going to efi is not hard , the ease of starting on cold or hot days is a joy and gives good mileage , just like the guys with the turbo efi 2.3 pintos would not think of ever going back to a carb again, hope this helps,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

edselbill

Ahhhh.

2.9 Ranger Engine, but need to swap out the Merkur top half intake manifold to fit under the hood.

The existing C3 auto will bolt right in with little to no modifications.  C4 works, but needs some mods.

Sound about right?
Anything else critical I need to be aware of?  (Before I go out shopping for a Ranger or Merkur?)

Any particular years better than others?
Do I need to search for a carbed car instead of one with an ECU?

I'm the new owner of what might possibly be the most "restored' '77 Pinto Squire around.  I had a '79 Strsky & Htch stripped glass-back back in the 80's and love it.  I crave "originality" and this Squire is unbelievable.  Glad to be back into Pintos!

enzo

Use the 2.9 from the Ranger.  The Ranger and Merkur have a 2 piece intake manifold that the bottom half is common to both apps.  The Ranger top half is too tall to fit under Pinto hoods.

edselbill

Sounds like the 2.9 with auto is the easiest swap.  I will look into that.

But, is the Murkur Scorpio the only vehicle to find this engine and tranny combo?  I mean it's not like you find those around every corner...
I'm the new owner of what might possibly be the most "restored' '77 Pinto Squire around.  I had a '79 Strsky & Htch stripped glass-back back in the 80's and love it.  I crave "originality" and this Squire is unbelievable.  Glad to be back into Pintos!

enzo

edselbill, I agree with Pinto_one.  You already have a V6 auto.  Stick with what you have. To go to with any other engine/trans combo will add work to the task.  The 2.9 with a C4 is the choice I should have made when I rebuilt mine. The 2.8 P/MII has some details that need to be looked at for longevity. As stated above, the main bearings are unique to 2.8 P/MII engine. The solid lifters don't make it more low maintenance.  The 2.9 has hydraulics lifters, the water pump is better and the heads have larger valves, making more power. The block and heads are thicker, the cam has larger bearings allowing for more lobe lift if wanted. The Merkur low profile manifold looks good. 

Damn,  I think I just talked myself in to another project.

pinto_one

You can do it a few ways, just the engine and the transmission later or both, find a Murkur Scorpio with the 2.9 with the auto, grab everything , wires and computer , your oil pan and engine mounts will bolt to it, drop it in, the over drive you will have to move the trans mount back 4 1/2 inches , and shorten the driveshaft the same, or bolt up your org trans and do it later,  this engine , as is , has almost 50% more power , also this car has the low profile intake manifold so it will fit under the hood, the trans mod I can send you photos of mine , the overdrive takes out the buzz on the hwy,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

edselbill

I have the same question.. and am still unsure of the answer.

I am doing a 77 wagon build. I am NOT looking to make it into a performer, just a bit more HP, reliability, possibly smoother and better mileage.  (And not anemic on the highway, especially with the AC on.)  This build is to become a modern daily driver.

What I am looking for is the swap that requires the LEAST amount of modifications.  I have the 2.8 v6 with c3 Auto currently.

What is the simplest upgrade swap?  I am willing to spend the money for a good donor car, engine and tranny.
Turbo sounds like a lot of modifications that I'm not interested in.  I am not looking to tear apart the incoming engine for modifications to the cam, etc...

Someone said a modern Focus 2.3L 4cy drops in easy.
I am happy and willing to buy a used Ranger / Bronco II and take the engine. Same with a Focus, or a Mustang, or whatever. I will get what is needed, so not to worry about what I currently have or what parts can match up.

Of all of the options discussed below, (or in other parts of the forum) and assuming money wasn't the critical factor, which modern engine / tranny combo drops in easiest with the least amount of modifications, and provides an upgrade in performance, etc..  while maintaining as much of the original Pinto details as possible. (Wiring harness, AC, gauges, engine mounts, etc..)

Thoughts?

I'm the new owner of what might possibly be the most "restored' '77 Pinto Squire around.  I had a '79 Strsky & Htch stripped glass-back back in the 80's and love it.  I crave "originality" and this Squire is unbelievable.  Glad to be back into Pintos!

pinto_one

That's right Enzo, but you do not have the have the cam re ground, COMP CAMS makes three or four different grinds for the later 2.8 , also the cam bearings are larger, the best part is the water pump for this engine has extra pulley on it , so no single belt, a must because if you lose the belt it will crack a head in a blink of an eye, happened to me ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

enzo

Agree with Pinto_one, 2.8 engine out of Pinto and MII had unique main bearings, hard to find and expensive. 2.8 Ranger has same mains as 2.9 and 4.0, much easier to find.  Have cam reground for more mid range and top end for more performance.  You will love this engine.!!  And best of all, you won't have a bunch of changes to make to get it on the road, "carb, motor mounts, alternator, ignition, cooling, gearing, etc!!!"  Have fun, at least.

bassplayerbell

Quote from: pinto_one on May 15, 2015, 05:47:45 AM
Forgot to say 84 to 85 ranger/bronco II 2.8 engine , they are tad bit better , difrent camshaft, and new style spark plugs, block is thicker,  and comes with a better water pump along with a fan clutch ,



Perfect Thanks

pinto_one

Forgot to say 84 to 85 ranger/bronco II 2.8 engine , they are tad bit better , difrent camshaft, and new style spark plugs, block is thicker,  and comes with a better water pump along with a fan clutch ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

bbobcat75

/\/\ what this guy said!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

pinto_one

Well it can be overhauled , I see on eBay under 2.8 engine parts you will find pistons and the other things you need, I see most engine shops are dumping the parts due to the age of the engine and has been out of production for over 30 years, or find one at a yard out of a ranger or bronco II for 50 or less and overhaul it, when done you can swap it out into your car in a day or so, yours lasted this long and when taken care of it will out last us , good luck,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

bassplayerbell

Just not sure if the 2.8 is worth rebuilding and pulling some more horse out of it.  I can drop a 2.3 with more horse but if I already have the V6 and its worth doing I will stick with stock V6 and modify as needed.

pinto_one

Well the only thing is we do not know what parts he has or what he can get his Hands on, the car is already a V-6, so he can transplant a later 2.8 out of a early Ranger/Bronco II, with ease , or a 2.9, for more power, if he wanted to use the 2.3 EFI he would first have to find the pinto oil pan and engine mounts along with a trans , to go with it , then get a radiator fans and etc , he wanted to do it in a weekend , but he will reply back on his options because this his his daily driver ,  👻
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on May 10, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
Just overhaul it.and put it back in, one is to dump the smog crap, bump the compression up to 9.1 , mild cam, and a weber carb kit they offer for this engine, mine I dumped a2.9 crank, a tbi off a early 5.0 LTD , computer from a ranger 2.9 and last use the A4LD trans from a 93 up 4.0 and use the ranger 2.9 converter, still got the A/C that works and power steering , if we're to do it again I would use use the 2.9 out of the ranger, oil pan and engine mounts fit to the engine, you just have to remake the alt, A/C and power steering brackets, on the pluss side the valves are hyd and do not need to be adjusted like the 2.8 engine , both are good engines . Look in the pinto gallery's for photos of mine ,later Blaine

How about going to a later 2.3 EFI build Blaine? Wouldn't that be better and he has all the parts?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Just overhaul it.and put it back in, one is to dump the smog crap, bump the compression up to 9.1 , mild cam, and a weber carb kit they offer for this engine, mine I dumped a2.9 crank, a tbi off a early 5.0 LTD , computer from a ranger 2.9 and last use the A4LD trans from a 93 up 4.0 and use the ranger 2.9 converter, still got the A/C that works and power steering , if we're to do it again I would use use the 2.9 out of the ranger, oil pan and engine mounts fit to the engine, you just have to remake the alt, A/C and power steering brackets, on the pluss side the valves are hyd and do not need to be adjusted like the 2.8 engine , both are good engines . Look in the pinto gallery's for photos of mine ,later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

bassplayerbell

just checking mine has a C3

78_starsky


bassplayerbell

Quote from: 78_starsky on May 10, 2015, 09:34:33 AM


It will all come down to how deep your pockets are and what you want from the car.  For me this motor rocks my car with dual exhaust and the C4.  all in i would guess i spent about 1,000 all in on the engine build.  here in Canada parts are expensive compared to US parts places.


You put C4 in your`s?

78_starsky

Hi,  I have a 2.8 That went with a rebuild after it sat for 20 years.  Nothing wrong with these little motors if you are able to do a good build job and can spend some cash on the build.

I took the original cam to a custom shop near me for a custom grind. (it has a 5200 rpm grind)  Drilled out the heads to allow better water flow. (easy to do if you have access to a drill press and you are mechanically inclined)

It will all come down to how deep your pockets are and what you want from the car.  For me this motor rocks my car with dual exhaust and the C4.  all in i would guess i spent about 1,000 all in on the engine build.  here in Canada parts are expensive compared to US parts places.

here is link to the build.

http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=15344.0

bassplayerbell

My 78 cruising wagon is about to get some engine work done. It has the 2.8 now with AC. What my question is would the 2.8 be a good rebuild or should I swap for 2.3 and build it up for some better HP. From all I read the 2.8 is not worth building up. Lots of confusing info out there. :o :o :-[
Any suggestions?