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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2.3 EFI 1987 Mustang Pinto swap into a 79 Pinto

Started by dianne, January 25, 2015, 01:02:36 PM

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ahuffman_09

been through all that. flexplate is bolted on the correct way. even took the flexplate off and put the trans in. thats how i found out the converter was bottoming out.

pinto_one

The converter is not seated into the pump all the way, and tighten up  the bolts until the engine locks up is bad, you may have put some marks on the converter flats that drive the pump enough to prevent them from going into the pump, remove the converter and look into the pump housing and you will see the pump drive lugs, and the angle at that Time , mark the center , check fitment by sticking converter on engine , the three flats for the bolts should mount flush , next is to check to see if you have the flywheel on backwards, that also will mess up your day and the trans, install converter with the flats close to your marks , these are a real pain sometimes because a few time I had to stand a few c-3s on the tail shaft and spin the converter to drop in place , good luck,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

ahuffman_09


Pintocrazed

check see if theres not a extra dowel pin in the trans or block.ive made that mistake a few times

ahuffman_09

engine came from a mustang with an auto. i took everything apart and nothing got dropped. everything should bolt up but the trans wont seat all the way without pinching the converter. only thing i can think is either the converter isn't seated all the way or this crank is slightly longer(which doesn't seem feasible). thing is i've pulled and reseated the converter probably 10 different times. pilot on the converter is flush with the bell housing. if all else fails i guess the c4 will be going in in place of the c3.


also the converter isnt rebuilt and its not jamming around it is bottoming out. 

dianne

The transmission came from an automatic. (This is Dianne now) I just ordered a new flex plate for the C4 and that's going in now. The flex plates look way different, so this car is now getting a C4. Putting it in the 79.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

The cranks are the same , make sure the engine did not come out of a car with a standard transmission, because it will still have the pilot bearing still in the crank,
You will have to remove it for it to seat the converter , it the converter was rebuilt and painted make sure your sand the paint off the stub that goes into the crank,  and a last note if some one dropped the converter on that end it will smash it out of round , hope this helps . Later Blaine

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

can the original c3 bolt up to the efi block and crank? I ask because when trying to install the c3 trans the torque converter pilot bottoms out on the crank and binds the motor. i know the cranks are different and the c3 converter pilot is different from the c4 converter pilot. or am i just missing something here? and yes the converter is seated all the way in the trans. (i checked multiple times.)
(this is Aaron, diannes mechanic btw)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on March 21, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Cheep and a good one would be from a 3.0 ford ranger around 94 to 2000, has the place to put your airflow sensor inside (to save room) and you can always buy a filter or at a later date install a K&N replacement , if you want I can research this for you to save time and money , later Blaine 😺

There was an after market one, but had K&N. I can look I guess, ebay and RockAuto :)

Thanks so much Blaine!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Cheep and a good one would be from a 3.0 ford ranger around 94 to 2000, has the place to put your airflow sensor inside (to save room) and you can always buy a filter or at a later date install a K&N replacement , if you want I can research this for you to save time and money , later Blaine 😺
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

There are a lot of them out there. I did the ebay search:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Ford+2.3+EFI+cold+air+intake&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XFord+2.3+cold+air+intake.TRS0&_nkw=Ford+2.3+cold+air+intake&ghostText=&_sacat=0

A lot of cheap ones and a K&N at 170, over my budget right now. Are the cheaper ones as good, or are they Chinese crap? Anyone use one on their EFI? It supposedly adds some horsepower with the short headers and better gas mileage. What's your experiences on these?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Almost ready to go into the car. All I need now is the car back from the paint shop and I have to pick up a cold air intake. Anyone have a good inexpensive one that works well?

It's almost there!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Congratulations!!! That had to be somewhat nerve racking to have gone through that process! Well, that's pretty cool really! There is one in a 46 Jeep here and I know it's a transplant. So are you a mechanic of some type? Good mechanics are hard to find I'm finding out. I have 2 good ones now and a shop monkey :D

That's pretty cool though :D Did you want to do a 2.3 swap on that one LOL Just kidding :P

So what jobs can you have?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Yes Diane that engine was used in just about everything, generators , fork lifts, air compressors , and tugs that tow large aircraft, , here is one that is in the hanger , they will pick it up tomorrow to bring to another airport, my last day here is next Friday and the place will close forever , but on a good note I have two job offerings and just have to pick which one I want ;D
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: oldkayaker on March 19, 2015, 07:26:46 AM
Assuming your concern about the block is for a future turbo addition.  If you do add a turbo in the future, the turbo oil can be drained directly to the side of the oil pan.  Either use a bulk head fitting or weld a fitting to the side of the pan above the oil level.  Believe I read your engine had cast pistons which would need to be swapped for forged pistons to reliably tolerate boost.  That would be a opportune time to add the drain to the pan.  From reading forums, the turbo and non-turbo blocks are of equal strength so a turbo block is not needed to run a turbo.

No, not going to turn it into a turbo. It's really just my second daily driver and maybe a show car. This is stamped as a turbo block, but didn't come with forged pistons. It looks like it was factory and I'll be at the shop today so I need to look at the ECM and see what it really came out of. I am assuming it did come out of an 89 Mustang Fox Body, and it's possible that the block was used in them. Seems the Lima engines can be all over the place I guess. I'm just happy to get it into working condition again with a modern (well more modern) engine with EFI and a computer. It should make the wagon a great car to drive :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

oldkayaker

Assuming your concern about the block is for a future turbo addition.  If you do add a turbo in the future, the turbo oil can be drained directly to the side of the oil pan.  Either use a bulk head fitting or weld a fitting to the side of the pan above the oil level.  Believe I read your engine had cast pistons which would need to be swapped for forged pistons to reliably tolerate boost.  That would be a opportune time to add the drain to the pan.  From reading forums, the turbo and non-turbo blocks are of equal strength so a turbo block is not needed to run a turbo.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on March 18, 2015, 07:03:28 PM
Great that you got the dip stick in the righ place, but they may be one small detail to address but easy to fix, the oil pan you took off was longer in the back and the dip stick is longer (because it was stuffed way in the back and and tall enough to see it, so in the front it may read incorrectly some , 5qts and filter run a few minutes and stop , let set for ten and check oil with the stick, if reads low use tubing cutter on tube and shorten until reads spot on, if to high go to a you pull it and fing a shorter stick and and cut tube to read right,  had to do this on my 2.8 engine because the org tube got broken when I sent the block out to be rebored,  used a tube from a 2.9 ranger and had to cut over an inch off the tube to read right, good luck and looking good , later Blaine 😜

Thanks. That picture was pretty good to figure it out. But I guess I'll have to wait until oil is in it, but I like that idea of cutting the tube until it's in the right spot. I also like the idea using a 2.9 range stick.

Thanks everyone for all the help on this! Your experiences are certainly helping make this a simpler build. I still don't know about the block though.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Great that you got the dip stick in the righ place, but they may be one small detail to address but easy to fix, the oil pan you took off was longer in the back and the dip stick is longer (because it was stuffed way in the back and and tall enough to see it, so in the front it may read incorrectly some , 5qts and filter run a few minutes and stop , let set for ten and check oil with the stick, if reads low use tubing cutter on tube and shorten until reads spot on, if to high go to a you pull it and fing a shorter stick and and cut tube to read right,  had to do this on my 2.8 engine because the org tube got broken when I sent the block out to be rebored,  used a tube from a 2.9 ranger and had to cut over an inch off the tube to read right, good luck and looking good , later Blaine 😜
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

And a 302 build :D

That is my Matco cart :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pintosopher

Quote from: dianne on March 18, 2015, 02:17:41 PM
They drilled it out for me :) Have the dip stick in the right place now!

Does anyone know where you could get a plug for the oil stick? I could call the parts supplier tomorrow I guess :)

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

Don't look now,  but your Matco is showing!   ;D ;D
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dianne

Quote from: pintosopher on March 18, 2015, 02:43:29 PM
Yes , there's nothing quite like having your dipstick where it should be ;D ;D ;D. Speaking as a first class Dipstick, I should know ;)

LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pintosopher

Quote from: dianne on March 18, 2015, 02:17:41 PM
They drilled it out for me :) Have the dip stick in the right place now!

Does anyone know where you could get a plug for the oil stick? I could call the parts supplier tomorrow I guess :)

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!
Yes , there's nothing quite like having your dipstick where it should be ;D ;D ;D. Speaking as a first class Dipstick, I should know ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dianne

They drilled it out for me :) Have the dip stick in the right place now!

Does anyone know where you could get a plug for the oil stick? I could call the parts supplier tomorrow I guess :)

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: amc49 on March 18, 2015, 04:21:04 AM
Per pinto_one

'I see your idea but the problem is the the rear part of the pinto pan is that the oil is not high enough to read on the stick...'

X2, the oil level will not be high enough to touch the stick there.

Thanks, I think I got that ;)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

Per pinto_one

'I see your idea but the problem is the the rear part of the pinto pan is that the oil is not high enough to read on the stick...'

X2, the oil level will not be high enough to touch the stick there.

dianne

I did a side by side and it looks different in the pictures. The blocks are different.it looks like. I have that "ledge" where you have the "FP" and the left of that is even more different.

Thanks again, we'll look but from the pictures the blocks look different. I don't think I have that cap. I'll look up the ECM when I get any numbers off of that.

Thanks again!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

What's weird about this block is that it came out of a 1989 Mustang, maybe it was swapped before and I don't really know and don't have the number of the person I got it from any more. But it's only turbo identification was the number stamped in the side that identifies it as an 86 turbo Thunderbird 2.3. But the person I got it from did an engine swap to a 5.0 on his 89 Mustang. The pistons aren't forged so I don't think it was a turbo. But with that said, I don't recall seeing it. I'm at the office all day tomorrow :( Trying to sell the company that is sucking the life out of me. I am finally doing what I want in my life! My mini-stock is almost ready for primer :) A Mustang II notch back, I can't wait to race!

But this is getting to me. I'll have the guys look at the thread in the morning and see if that's there. I don't recall seeing it to be honest, but things are lost right in front of our eyes in the shop sometimes ahahahaha. I hope it's there, but I don't have a drill press that's big enough to drill that. Maybe just drill it in. I'll let you know in the morning, but I don't remember anything like that. Again, it's probably there or I have some odd ball block.

Would the ECM tell me anything? I can look it up I guess.

Thanks again!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

oldkayaker

This engine was advertised as a 86 turbo but who knows.  Anyway, look about half way between the oil filter and the distributor holes and just below the "FP".  That is the hole for the front dip stick and it has a ~1/4" diameter plug pressed in to it.  If yours is not predrilled, at least this shows where to drill.  Also noticed your block did not have the turbo oil return hole/boss on the exhaust side which seemed odd for a turbo block, see second photo.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

pinto_one

I see your idea but the problem is the the rear part of the pinto pan is that the oil is not high enough to read on the stick and the stick will hit the bottom of the pan, when you put the pinto pan on it now goes to the pinto specs on how much oil it holds , I always put a FL1A filter and dumped 5 qts of oil in them, gone this far might as well do it right, so no worrys later 😸
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on March 17, 2015, 06:16:39 PM
The dipstick will have to be moved to the front,  some had a plug you had to knock out and put it into the rear, later ones were not drilled out , so you will have to remove the pan to drill it out or remove the plug, I will make some photos of the one I have on my shed floor, so you can see , will have it for you tomorrow, so sit tight and soon it will be done , on a note on this they quit putting the plug/hole in the front because they went to all rear sumps, also you have a plate on the side for a fuel pump, a few years later that was not machined out any more because of the electric pump on the EFI engines , later Blaine

Yep, that's there Blaine. I think the best way to handle it is what I mentioned, what do you think? It holds 5 quarts of oil in the motor. Now I don't know exactly how high the oil will make it into that rear part of the pan, but I am thinking it should be making it back there. I think that modifying the dipstick to show the oil would work by re-scoring it with the new levels after cutting it down. My thought are to fill the oil and filter with 4 quarts of oil to start. So basically run it for a minute, then turn it off and allow it to drip back down.

Once the oil settles with 4 quarts, I can drop the stick back in the pan. That will show me the level of 4 quarts of oil and allow the the 5th quart to be scored on the dipstick. Basically redoing the dipstick to show where the oil levels should be. The 86 motor I am using seems to be different than others. I found this and it doesn't even show the 86 2.3 EFI.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/4cylinders.html

It shows a lot of the differences between all of these engines. I'm just glad I have the computer and wiring harness to be honest.

Thanks for all the help Blaine! I'm supposed to get the wagon back next week though :D FINALLY!

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied