Mini Classifieds

1979 PINTO PARTS--FREE
Date: 09/13/2022 02:05 pm
71-73 Front Kick Panels
Date: 04/25/2021 07:24 pm
2.0 performance parts, 2 intakes, header, ported head, more
Date: 10/25/2019 04:05 pm
1972 Pinto SCCA BS race car

Date: 10/23/2018 04:01 pm
Mustang II C4 Transmission
Date: 07/28/2017 06:26 am
1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

Date: 02/28/2018 09:33 am
1972-1980 Pinto/Bobcat Wagon Drivers Side Tail Light OEM

Date: 04/20/2017 10:10 am
6.6.75 carrier
Date: 02/14/2018 06:47 am
EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,576
  • Total Topics: 16,268
  • Online today: 673
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 398
  • Total: 398
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Transmission for 1980 Ford Pinto

Started by AndrewG, August 11, 2014, 11:50:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

AndrewG

That was is.  The trans are now apart. The needle rollers were difficult to keep intake, but I know how they go back so it's no big deal.  I still need to find a plastic dome and tabbed lock nut somewhere, but at least I'm making progress.

AndrewG

I think i figured out step #12, it says to "rotate the extension housing until the end of the countershaft is opposite the cutaway in the extension housing flange".
From the front of the gearbox I can see a circular space below the input shaft that seems to be the front end of the countershaft rod.  I think I am supposed to hit it from the front so that the shaft exits out the back near the housing.  The housing should be turned to allow this shaft to exit.  In order to keep the needle rollers in place, the rod used to remove the countershaft should be left in place so that it holds these rollers. (Thanks for the warning on the needle rollers).

Can you guys let me know if I'm on the right track. I don't want to hit anything until I know for sure that I'm supposed to.

AndrewG

Russ,  thanks so much for the explanation.  You're right about wanting to hit or pry it loose with something metal.  I might have been a bit tough with this thing and done just that.  At this point I would looks to drop kick it across the driveway.

Well, I got the housing loose and it moves about 1/2 " away from the gearbox. I can spin it around but that's it. (I didn't see any other bolts hidden under greese. That was a good point, thanks). I am mechanical, but unfortunately there are few photos in the manual so it's hard since I never worked on a trans before.

AJ

PS - you're not old because I'm the same age as you.


russosborne

Ok, just to clarify I have never worked on a FOG trans, and it has been many years since I worked on any. But the following is pretty much basic shop class stuff. I have no clue how mechanically inclined you are, so I am going with the basics, no offense meant if you know this stuff already.

For step 11, make sure you have removed all the bolts and everything from the previous steps. I don't have a clue how many bolts there are, so I can't help you there. Sometimes you may find one that is hidden under grease. Believe me, this happens. At least to me.
Once you are sure they are all removed, tap the housing with a plastic or rubber mallet. You may need to get physical with it, if it hasn't been apart for almost 40 years it will act like it is glued together. Just do not use anything metal to hit with. Even though you are going to want to. And try to hit on the more solid areas (where there is the most meat). This is really one of those easier to show you than to explain things. Best bet is to tap around the mating surface, going around and tapping until you hear/feel it pop loose. Don't use anything to try to pry it apart. You don't want to risk marring the mating surfaces.

That should enable you to rotate the housing as per step 12. Again, I don't have a clue just how far the manual wants you to rotate it. I am hoping there are pictures with it.

Step 13 wants you to use a piece of steel rod with just a slightly smaller diameter than the counter shaft. Believe me, you do not want those needle rollers getting loose. They roll any and everywhere. We had to rebuild 3 speed manual trans in auto shop when I took it in '76(gee, I am really old) and those stupid things were a royal pain.

If you get this far maybe the rest will be a bit more obvious. If not then let us know. Remember, Ford wrote those manuals for mechanics in their dealer shops, not for us hobbyists. So what they think may have been perfectly obvious to the mechanics is not to us.

HTH some,

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

AndrewG

I got myself a shop manual which has been helpful in working on the trans.
Can someone help me understand the directions (see attached). I was able to drive the roll pin through the selector lever arm, and remove the shift rail, so I'm up to step #11.
I'm having trouble understanding steps #12 through #17, (still can't separate the gearbox from the tail housing.)

Thank you

AndrewG

Thanks everyone for the advice and links.

I will most likely get the bushing from Burton Power, so thanks for that recommendation.
Called the local junkyard yesterday and they did a search on 1980 Pinto trans.  Found 2 yards in MA that have one. One junkyard said the trans was on the shelf, but the shifter parts were missing.  The other place told me they would need to go out to the yard to see if it had the needed parts, and would call me back in a few days. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. 

Thanks again for all the help.  I'll keep you all posted.

oldkayaker

Here are a couple threads on sourcing the bushing shown in the last photo.

http://www.fordpinto.com/parts-resources-here-is-where-you-can-find-this-or-that/manual-shifter-bushing-(saddle)/msg137343/#msg137343

http://www.fordpinto.com/general-help/4-speed-shifter-21725/msg132857/#msg132857

As for the shifter, the craiglist ad below shows a shifter in one of the photos.  Your shifter shown at the start of this thread seems longer than any Pinto shifter that I have seen (maybe a custom).
http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/pts/4606213721.html

In addition to a want ad here, you might check ebay, craiglist in your area, and the mini stock site: http://www.4m.net/forumdisplay.php?35-Mini-Stocks
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

amc49

Transtar here in Dallas is great, they serve walk-in public just like the business clients and parts are much cheaper since they supply all the trans repair shops. I made a killing buying ATX stuff there.

AndrewG

Here's a photo of the elusive shifter parts that I need.

1st photo shows shifter, plastic dome and tabbed lock nut.
2nd photo shows plastic shifter bushing.

russosborne

I've never used them, just did a quick Google search and found them.
Hopefully Dave will chime in since he has.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

AndrewG

Quote from: russosborne on August 20, 2014, 06:40:27 PM
http://www.transtar1.com/
Transmission parts place.

Thanks for the info.
Looks like we have one close by in Edison NJ.

How's the experience with the ordering process and parts availability for older cars?

russosborne

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

AndrewG

Quote from: dave1987 on August 19, 2014, 08:44:33 PM
I have a Transtar here in Boise, ID that gets me parts for my FOG,

What is Transtar?

dave1987

Is the "rail" the SROD?

I have a Transtar here in Boise, ID that gets me parts for my FOG, the only thing they cannot get me is new synchros, which is a contributing factor to why I plan to go T5 or T9. Thinking more along the lines of T5, so that when the V8 time comes along, I will just need a bell and fork to make things work.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

amc49

Definitely not RAD or RAN or RUG or RAIL trans, where do they get all these weird names???

AndrewG

Quote from: dave1987 on August 17, 2014, 10:46:46 PM
I may have a spare shifter. I will try to dig into my parts tomorrow and see.

Thank you

dave1987

I may have a spare shifter. I will try to dig into my parts tomorrow and see.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

AndrewG

Quote from: dick1172762 on August 17, 2014, 06:07:01 PM
Nylon dome is a FOG tranie.

OK.  And where can I get parts for the shifter?

dick1172762

Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

AndrewG

Quote from: dick1172762 on August 17, 2014, 12:01:52 PM
It's not a RAD tranie! It's a FOG tranie. NO PARTS will interchange.

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I know it's a FOG (Ford of Germany), but I was told by a buddy of mine who has the same car out west, that I should be asking around for a 1980 Pinto RAD 4 spd, due to the style of shifter.  We have the one with the nylon dome that holds the shifter, not the three bolt type.

dick1172762

It's not a RAD tranie! It's a FOG tranie. NO PARTS will interchange.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

AndrewG

I finally got the shifter out by cutting the nylon dome off. Once I got the shifter out I was able to see what the problem was......broken fork on the shifter.

Now I need to find a replacement.

Any ideas on where to find a shifter for a 1980 pinto RAD 4 spd tranny?

AndrewG

Quote from: amc49 on August 14, 2014, 12:15:21 AM
I had one apart long enough to pronounce it a tinkertoy. Watch for where the tailshaft stub enters the input shaft back end, the bearing register there can be torn up if lube ran low in trans, as can countershaft bearings.

It is quite simple, but gets the job done.  (The car is only 1800 lbs.).

The shifter bushing was torn up, and I'm having a hard time removing the nylon dome above the shifter.  Seems that someone in the past glued it down.  Is there another trans that would be a good replacement for this one?  (I keep hearing about T5's, but I'm not sure if that is appropriate for this car).

amc49

I had one apart long enough to pronounce it a tinkertoy. Watch for where the tailshaft stub enters the input shaft back end, the bearing register there can be torn up if lube ran low in trans, as can countershaft bearings.

AndrewG

Have any of you here worked on this transmission?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Andrew

amc49

The 80 ET may well describe it too, some listings used that and the 80 is for the year model, others for same like 79 ET for '79 model, 76 ET for '76, etc. Same trans otherwise.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: AndrewG on August 11, 2014, 07:32:45 PM
That's useful information.  Thanks.

Anytime  ;)  Ford feared the V6/4-speed Pinto would have been as fast as the MII/V8 at the time so they saddled them with power robbing automatics.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

AndrewG

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on August 11, 2014, 05:32:01 PM

All V6 Pintos were automatic unless someone put the MII V6 trans in a Pinto.

That's useful information.  Thanks.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: AndrewG on August 11, 2014, 03:48:32 PM
BTW - I have the 2.3 l engine.

Andrew

All V6 Pintos were automatic unless someone put the MII V6 trans in a Pinto.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

AndrewG

Quote from: russosborne on August 11, 2014, 02:50:38 PM
It's a FOG. I "think" that stands for Ford of Germany. It's the same trans for 74-80 Pintos according to the link below. 70-73 have a different rebuild kit.
It came with other Fords of that era that had 4 cyl engines.

This site has a little bit of info on it, there might be better ones.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/ford_fog_rwd.html

HTH,
Russ

Hi Russ,

Thanks for the info.  I checked their site. Good information.
I'm hoping I can get the shifter bushing and nylon dome above the bushing.
BTW - I have the 2.3 l engine.

Andrew