Mini Classifieds

Free 2.0L Valve Cover

Date: 01/03/2023 04:27 pm
72 Pinto parts
Date: 11/14/2019 10:46 pm
1972 Pinto for sale

Date: 05/19/2021 12:41 am
Accelerator Pump Diaphram for 1978 Pinto
Date: 09/03/2018 08:58 am
1975 Pinto bumpers
Date: 10/24/2019 01:43 pm
1974 Pinto Misc. moldings & parts

Date: 12/20/2016 10:47 pm
upholstery for bucket seats
Date: 10/30/2018 08:44 am
Parts Parts Parts
Date: 09/08/2018 03:13 pm
2.3 engine and other parts- Free
Date: 12/13/2016 10:25 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,927
  • Online ever: 1,927 (Today at 01:50:28 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 1931
  • Total: 1931
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

74 Wagon Project - What do you think?

Started by pintoguy76, June 03, 2014, 10:23:54 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Wittsend

  Note: Something weird is happening here. I replied (twice) to "74 Pinto at Pick Your Part" and when I send the reply it shows up in this post "74 Pinto Project". What??? Anyway, Becky this answers your question about the grille.

I assume it would be a Grade 1 grill. The first number is the price. The second number their crazy core charges (yes, even on a plastic grill) . The third number is an additional price to get a warranty. Note that these are regular yard prices. So, you will pay about 30% more because this is in the "Primo" yard section. My guess is that it will be $32-$35 out the door (no warranty).

Grille (G-1)$19.99$2.00$6.00
Grille (G-2)$26.99$2.00$8.10












blupinto

Oooh! I like that color! Is it orange or Saddle Bronze Metallic or Chestnut? It positively glows in the sunlight!

One can never have too many Pintos!

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 14, 2014, 05:11:28 AM
I've read on here (and other places) that the poly bushings squeak.
They will squeak like hell if installed dry(learned that the hard way), lubricated with the right grease(usually comes with a kit)they won't squeak, put them in my truck and 25,000mi later never squeaked the whole time.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Reeves1

For less than 2k you could have a bomb proof 9" made.

I've read on here (and other places) that the poly bushings squeak.
Didn't want that myself, so all new bushings on my car are new/rubber.

Using the Wilwood hub/brake kit on mine as well.
Not worried about aluminum hubs : it's not a corner carver.

pintoguy76

Ok heres an update. I think i decided to use the granada brakes and rotors up front and an ebay disc kit for an 8". Going with 3.55 gears instead of 3.40s, and a Detroit True-Trac for the posi unit.  I figure by the time I buy axles and wheels the rear end ALONE will be $2,000. Yikes! That's not including little stuff like gear lube and lug nuts, that i'll have to buy also.  Probably throw in some energy suspension bushings while i'm at it.
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

Reeves1

Have you read this topic ?

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/front-disc-brakes-(4-5-lug)/

Paint shop will have to help you with the orange though  ;D

pintoguy76

No big deal guys - I do have a few more questions tho.


I think i decided to drop the wilwood brakes because they only include aluminum wheel hubs, and a steel hub isnt available. I want steel for strength and durability. They warn that you need some special spacer or something if you use steel wheels with the aluminum hub or it may damage the hub. I dont like the sound of that at all.... SO. I am thinking about using the 5 lug granada rotors instead  for the front. Anyone have any information on that swap?Also the parts store website says that rear disc brakes were available on the granada. If thats true, couldnt I snag the rear disc brake setup off one of those too and use on my pinto?


What all do I need for the front granada brake swap? I know there are certain bearings that have to be used, but what else? Also what is the lug pattern used on the granada?  I need know that and the wheel offset so I can look at new wheels...




I guess thats enough for now... please help if you can. Thanks!!
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Quote from: dianne on June 05, 2014, 09:23:40 AM
LOL hand slap noted accordingly  ::)

I slapped my own hand too!  Thanks to pintoguy76 for being a good sport!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dianne

Quote from: dga57 on June 05, 2014, 08:21:55 AM
Well friends, as much fun as this has been, we have totally hijacked pintoguy76's thread!  Considering that I'm technically supposed to be the "responsible adult" here, I propose we dispense with the silliness, apologize to pintoguy76, and then offer up some good suggestions to him for his Pinto project.  Thanks!


Dwayne :)

LOL hand slap noted accordingly  ::)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dga57

Well friends, as much fun as this has been, we have totally hijacked pintoguy76's thread!  Considering that I'm technically supposed to be the "responsible adult" here, I propose we dispense with the silliness, apologize to pintoguy76, and then offer up some good suggestions to him for his Pinto project.  Thanks!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dga57 on June 05, 2014, 12:59:10 AM
Hmmm... maybe we can airdrop the orange paint onto one of them and beautify the Pinto (and anything else in the way) in one fell swoop!!!  ;D
Now that's an idea.. ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

Quote from: dga57 on June 05, 2014, 12:59:10 AM
Hmmm... maybe we can airdrop the orange paint onto one of them and beautify the Pinto (and anything else in the way) in one fell swoop!!!  ;D

Orange dropped from the sky in one swoop? Ummmmm Agent Orange? On Canadians?

I want to apologize in advance for anyone I offended :(
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dga57

Hmmm... maybe we can airdrop the orange paint onto one of them and beautify the Pinto (and anything else in the way) in one fell swoop!!!  ;D
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Reeves1


74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dga57 on June 04, 2014, 01:54:25 PM
PSSSTT....Hey Art,  want to sneak up to Canada and "beautify" a colorless Pinto?  ;)
Dwayne ;D
Wouldn't that be cool, LOL...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

PSSSTT....Hey Art,  want to sneak up to Canada and "beautify" a colorless Pinto?  ;)
Dwayne ;D
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Reeves1


dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 03, 2014, 06:35:17 PM
(cracking up in shop next to my cool white car  ;D )
Hmmm, this would look pretty bada$$ in Orange.. ;D ;D ;D

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dianne on June 03, 2014, 06:15:29 PM
You might have it under the roof rack ;)
And it's coming off as soon as I can line up someone to do the body work.. :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Reeves1

Quote from: dga57 on June 03, 2014, 05:59:38 PM

>:(   >:(   >:(   >:(   >:(


Just kidding, but I LIKE orange!!!


Dwayne :)

Knew that would get your attention  ;D

You do know I won't quit , right ?
(cracking up in shop next to my cool white car  ;D )

dianne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on June 03, 2014, 06:02:19 PM
Almost, except for the rust and no roof rack.. :D

You might have it under the roof rack ;) Probably not from where you are though.

Yeah, it looks good in that orange.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dianne on June 03, 2014, 04:09:25 PM
LOL, it looks like yours ;)
Almost, except for the rust and no roof rack.. :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 03, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
It's orange.

You are too far behind to ever get ahead.


;D


>:(   >:(   >:(   >:(   >:(


Just kidding, but I LIKE orange!!!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Reeves1

It's orange.

You are too far behind to ever get ahead.


;D

71HANTO

"Are the wilwood brakes a good idea?"
Good idea. I just bought fronts for my 71 street Turbo Pinto. They are bolt on and standard ford five lug.
"How will they work with a ranger master cylinder?"
You may need a Wilwood adjustable portioning valve.
"Where can I get 5 lug axles made at for this car and what length/lug pattern do they need to be?"
Strange Engineering or Currie Enterprises will make them up. Just let them know you have a Mustang II/Pinto 8" and they know the axle lengths. Some have re-drilled the existing axles but I don't like the idea personally. Go with ford standard 5 lug. Zillions of wheel choices.
"Any specific posi unit recommended?"
Eaton TrueTrak is the best but cheaper types are available.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390604349866?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
"Do 3.40 gears sound like a good compromise between power and economy with a T5 trans? "
3.40-3.55  is good with stock height tires.
"What size wheels will I need with the Wilwood brakes??"
You will need 15" or larger rims. Note: I would save money and stay with rear drums. Most of the stopping is done with the front brakes anyway.
71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr