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parts needed
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'78 Pinto Windshield Trim
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79 Wagon with many extras
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1971 Pinto (survivor)

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I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
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WANTED: Skinny Rear Bumper w/o guards for '71 or '72 Pinto Coupe
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Wheels and Parts

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Looking for a few parts - TIA
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wanted a 1979 Pinto or Bobcat front valance
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

skeeter88 - BOSS Pintos

Started by Reeves1, May 02, 2014, 04:20:51 PM

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poomwah

my "first" car (not counting all the projects BEFORE I got my license) was a pro streeted 74 maverick with a 302 in it. Guy built it and then got divorced so it went CHEAP.
that was a fun car

dianne

Quote from: amc49 on May 09, 2014, 04:44:23 AM
I remember seeing a pro stock Boss 429 Maverick close up in the pits at Little River dragstrip in Temple Texas around '72? or so, and just sat there trying to comprehend just how they managed to put more engine in there than there was space for. The words HOW???? just kept going around in a stuck loop there.

I had a Maverick until recently, I could see getting a big block in there :) It was almost the Mustang II base also!

72? You be older too! LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

I remember seeing a pro stock Boss 429 Maverick close up in the pits at Little River dragstrip in Temple Texas around '72? or so, and just sat there trying to comprehend just how they managed to put more engine in there than there was space for. The words HOW???? just kept going around in a stuck loop there.

dianne

Quote from: poomwah on May 08, 2014, 12:34:53 AM
I'd do it if I could afford it

They are becoming more rare, the Boss 429 - forget about it!

A 302 would be cool though, or even a 289 :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

poomwah


dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

poomwah

somebody needs to build a boss wagon :]

amc49

I remember once a beautiful young girl who oddly enough worked in the back of a printshop when I first started learning press. She could've been a movie star, that type of package. Everybody was always trying to hook that, she drove a rare '71 Boss 351 'Stang that once talking to her about she wanted me to work on the clutch, the linkage was messed up. I worked on it and during that time became enamored of how well the engine ran. She never blasted it out but the day I gave car back I was putting it through the paces and actually almost abusing it but the clutch stayed put and worked fine after that. Boy the burnouts were movie quality as well, I felt like Steve McQ on the 'Bullitt' set. She commented on how the car never got driven like that by her and I told her she needed to at least once in a while. 'Treat it like your ex-boyfriend' I think I may have said. Everybody at work was sure I had done other things as well but not me, I was too shy. Besides that I liked the car better. Women were always something of a problem for me back then.

dianne

Quote from: amc49 on May 06, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
Nothing can replace a good Boss Cleveland engine, they made far too few of them. It would've been nice to see them last long enough to refine the rough edges more than they did. The Chevys should've gotten more of a stomping by them than they did.

I know we sure did it. I can still call up vividly one day at the Yello' Belly dragstrip with me and my friend Gary's Boss 302 running against a pretty full tilt 302 Z-28 with the rare 2X4 crossram on it. We were running a Weiand tunnelram with 2X4 750 DPs. What a race! Beat that sucker..........we DROVE the Mustang out, the Zee was trailered in, that had everyone laughing their sides off. A lot of cash changed hands on that one, we had to be very careful to not make any enemies.

My Boss used to eat Camaros like they were peanuts. Bowties really sux poop out of people a-holes. Back then Chevys sucked, well today they zoop worse! Government Motors now, while FORD: Federal Funding Respectfully Declined!!!

Yep, I WANT A BOSS 302 again! Someone else on here had one back then also ;) He's old too LMAO
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

Nothing can replace a good Boss Cleveland engine, they made far too few of them. It would've been nice to see them last long enough to refine the rough edges more than they did. The Chevys should've gotten more of a stomping by them than they did.

I know we sure did it. I can still call up vividly one day at the Yello' Belly dragstrip with me and my friend Gary's Boss 302 running against a pretty full tilt 302 Z-28 with the rare 2X4 crossram on it. We were running a Weiand tunnelram with 2X4 750 DPs. What a race! Beat that sucker..........we DROVE the Mustang out, the Zee was trailered in, that had everyone laughing their sides off. A lot of cash changed hands on that one, we had to be very careful to not make any enemies.

dianne

You had to show me that didn't you ahahahahaha
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Reeves1


dianne

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on May 03, 2014, 08:54:09 AM
No.. Ford never made a 302 pinto but they did make a 'boss pinto' - the only one I know that still exists is Mike's...

He knows much more about the pedigree of his car ... He has all the paperwork.

What would be cool is a boss look alike w/ a 302 ...

:)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, stick this engine in it!!!

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Scott Hamilton

No.. Ford never made a 302 pinto but they did make a 'boss pinto' - the only one I know that still exists is Mike's...

He knows much more about the pedigree of his car ... He has all the paperwork.

What would be cool is a boss look alike w/ a 302 ...

:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dianne

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on May 02, 2014, 08:34:12 PM
Actually I was talking about Mike Street's- Here is Mike's... Just as Ford Built it (and their dealer network)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26161002@N03/14065019783/in/set-72157644372086132

Norm's is a wild one- super cool 'Shaker'!

Brian (Cookieboy) also has a excellent Red version he created... Fantastic car!
:D

Ford made Boss 302 Pintos? Or you mean that picture you posted a link to with the car with the stripe? The dealer or Ford made what you posted?

I'm so cornfused!!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Scott Hamilton

Actually I was talking about Mike Street's- Here is Mike's... Just as Ford Built it (and their dealer network)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26161002@N03/14065019783/in/set-72157644372086132

Norm's is a wild one- super cool 'Shaker'!

Brian (Cookieboy) also has a excellent Red version he created... Fantastic car!
:D
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dianne

Quote from: skeeter88 on May 02, 2014, 05:01:05 PM
are you missing your boss now Dianne??  lol

I missed that the day I drove my Mustang II Ghia home in 1974/75 LOL Been missing it ever since!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

skeeter88

are you missing your boss now Dianne??  lol

dianne

WOW ME REALLY LIKES A LOT!!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

skeeter88

very cool cars. when I see these pics makes me want to get at my 71 even more.  thanks so much for posting this. 

Reeves1


Reeves1

I built this one back in the early 80s. Fitted for a B2, but needed a daily driver, so put a 302w into it. Sold the B2 engine to a guy in NB & he put it in a Mustang. I found the guy that now owns that engine. He will not sell it.


Reeves1







Norm Bagi's Pinto - search for more pictures & video. Awesome car ! This is the one Scott refers to.