Mini Classifieds

2.3 pinto carb
Date: 08/18/2018 02:07 pm
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm
79 pinto steering column
Date: 08/18/2018 02:00 pm
Built 2.0
Date: 10/07/2018 05:27 pm
76 pinto sedan sbc/bbc project for sale $1700 obo

Date: 03/27/2017 10:07 pm
pinto wagon parts
Date: 12/19/2019 01:43 pm
1973 Pinto Pangra

Date: 07/08/2019 10:09 pm
Need flywheel for 73 2.0 engine.
Date: 10/05/2017 02:26 pm
77 pinto
Date: 08/22/2017 06:31 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,593
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 489
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 1
  • Guests: 264
  • Total: 265
  • Pinto916
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

detonation and egr pvs etc

Started by tonij1960, March 23, 2014, 08:22:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amc49

Sorry, lost my dsl for a bit there.

Be careful sticking a screwdriver up in valve if you cock the diaphragm piston to one side you can cut the rubber and junk then. Better to simply add manifold vacuum straight to valve, that'll tell the tale. The EGR block under carb is bad about blocking up with carbon.

Rather not discuss seafoam, I always get flamed for it. Suffice to say I think most auto maintenance chemicals are a ripoff, and do nothing. I use hardly any of them at all.

At our shop I pulled a couple of engines apart that used water injection, the cylinder walls were very finely steam pitted, the blocks had to be bored. I will not argue that water injection does nothing but unless you have a computer dosing it out then you are messing with your engines' durability there. Very easy to get slightly too much and the damage.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: tonij1960 on March 26, 2014, 11:54:33 PM
Thats an ideea too I never saw the slots in the back. What do you push on it with something not sharp? A screwdeiver would be a bad idea?

The valve is steel & it doesn't take much pressure. Certified mechanics recommend this as a quick test of the valve. It wont hurt anything.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

ToniJ1960

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on March 26, 2014, 10:08:49 PM
Testing it is easy. With the engine warm & idling push on the EGR valve through one of the slots with a screwdriver. If the engine bobbles it's working.

Thats an ideea too I never saw the slots in the back. What do you push on it with something not sharp? A screwdeiver would be a bad idea?

Right now my Pinto has two flats in front :( the tires are ok I need to air them up. Every time the weather changes they quit holding air. I had three different places work on  the wheels I suppose theyre too far gone. Time to find some wheels (not real easy to do :(  )

74 PintoWagon

Probably wouldn't hurt to clean it out though..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Testing it is easy. With the engine warm & idling push on the EGR valve through one of the slots with a screwdriver. If the engine bobbles it's working.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Wouldn't hurt to check and see if it's functional.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

ToniJ1960

 Once I drive it the way it is with the pvs bypassed for a while, if its not better I plan to take the egr off and check the passages. I have a new gasket allready. The diaphragm holds vacuum so I dont  think Im going to buy a new egr valve just yet
(theyre a little pricey)

74 PintoWagon

Everyone I've taken off that had a lot miles on it were all carboned up..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

I always used a condiment bottle filled with water to clear carbon. 2500 RPM & a steady stream worked great.

On a side note does anyone else think the EGR plate is packed full of carbon & isn't working anyhow?
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

Quote from: amc49 on March 25, 2014, 12:48:39 AMI personally absolutely do not use water or like seafoam in carb on any vehicle ever.

Out of curiosity, what is your beef with Seafoam, other than the general price?

It is ignitable, by itself, and does at least stabilize fuel for storage.

DO NOT DO THE VACUUM LINE DIRECTIONS if you're over 75,000 miles. If you're over that, add it to the gas tank, and you're golden.

Don't knock a good product, without evidence as to why you're knocking it. :)

You pour any liquid directly down the throat of a carb, and you WILL hydro-lock a motor. But aren't bent rods how mechanics stay in business? lol

rramjet

I remember water/alcohol injection being used on some of the old recip aircraft I worked on in my younger days in the USAF. it was called ADI, (anti detonation injection). Water cools the mixture and alcohol keeps the water from freezing. More HP for take-off.

dick1172762

Well if your so dumb to use a garden hose, it (your motor) should blow up. I use an old windex pump spray. Works great and is no different from having water injection on your car or truck. I had to use water injection on my car hauler back in the 70's when gas went bad at the pump. It would ping all the time. Put the water injection on it and the ping was gone, that is till water tank ran dry.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: amc49 on March 25, 2014, 12:48:39 AM
An even longer shot and rare but I've seen a broken piston when someone did that and big piece of carbon came loose to crunch in a quench flat. Carbon cooked long enough is diamond............it can eat exhaust seats like nobody's business. Other than that rarity it might work, but I've not seen ping to where it could not be cured and without doing that. I personally absolutely do not use water or like seafoam in carb on any vehicle ever.
Well, if you use a garden hose yeah it'll eat up stuff, LOL, gotta control the amount only takes a very slight amount, workrd great in my truck with a self contained camper and pulling the race boat..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

FYI, just ran across a pic of choke side of carb, 3 vacuum tubes in a rough triangle shape. The top curved one is spark port for distributor, the lower straight one on the right is EGR port and the left lower curved one is a vacuum dump for the Thermactor bypass valve. Per service manual.

Also simple 2 port PVS pictured too. If PVS has 4 ports, top 2 and bottom 2 in pairs, if top one is connected at cold then bottom then bottom one is not, they switch with added temperature. Closed one opens and open one closes.

amc49

An even longer shot and rare but I've seen a broken piston when someone did that and big piece of carbon came loose to crunch in a quench flat. Carbon cooked long enough is diamond............it can eat exhaust seats like nobody's business. Other than that rarity it might work, but I've not seen ping to where it could not be cured and without doing that. I personally absolutely do not use water or like seafoam in carb on any vehicle ever.


74 PintoWagon

I've done the water trick several times works pretty good..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dick1172762

Tonij1960. I know its a long shot, but have you tried the old water sprayed down the carb? I've seen that old trick work on several car. One thing about it is, that it can't hurt the Pinto, so give it a try.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

amc49

The changes made from 75-80 are bewildering to say the least. I did find out the PVS can be rated by opening temperature and the plastic body color.

black    92-98 degrees
blue    125-131
purple 157-163

On a 3 port PVS two hoses attach to get source and the output, the third is a vent to let output fall off to zero. The locations are not standard, vent can be on the top or bottom, you test for it. Thinking source has to be the middle.

Thinking spark delay valves are rated in delay in seconds by body color too. They delay sucking one way through but pass air freely the other way (internal check valve) so it matters which way installed end for end.

Venturi vacuum amplifier hose locations--O is output to EGR valve, R is to any vacuum reservoir tank in there (may need one if it's missing), M or S is to manifold vacuum, and A is for atmosphere or vent. Doesn't use a carb port at all, rather straight manifold vacuum.

There is a circuit in some engines there called DSSA (dual signal spark advance) that 'improves spark/EGR function under mild acceleration conditions'. See if any EPA hood/engine sticker mentions it as supplied on the car if sticker still there. Maybe that if you are not running the vacuum amplifier but thinking the 2.3L does, so it would not apply.

If EGR valve has ever been changed can be that as well, they flow all over the map and different poppets for different parts, some simply on/off, others increase/decrease flow gradually. On like SBC there could be as many as 8 valves, all fit and most wouldn't work right at all.

I'd disregard what I said about using any carb port like spark and use manifold and venturi vacuum if using the amplifier, they may need full-on flow to make that work, the carb port is a restriction in that case. I've never tried to make a venturi vacuum amplifier work, years ago I could not get them so did things in other ways.

If EGR not coming on because of bad PVS then that is the issue, EGR on kills pinging. Spark delay will help but only as long as the delay is, if the ping still going at cruise after a few seconds and steady state cruise then not spark delay and the EGR needs to be working or too much total timing advance somewhere. I'd make sure again that cold air duct in air cleaner snorkel is working correctly, I had that fail once and got your problem exactly. It must be full open to underhood air with hot engine and the exhaust heat pickup part shut.

ToniJ1960

 78 2.3 ac 4 spd manual

Im prety sure it was set up when I got it 28 years ago with spark port vacuum for the distributor and the ege through that 2 port pvs. Chiltons only shows a 3 port one so it can give intake vacuum under certain hot conditions to spped the idle and lower the temp.

The pcv valve has two large orifices and one barb for a vacuum line. The one large end goes into a hose, the larger barbed port goes into another hose, and the smaller vacuum line at the top.

Its not really pinging like you get if the timing is lightly too advanced and it only does it when its hot. But there was once a spark delay valve to delay vacuum to the distributor. I wonder if I should put it back in. But if that pvs turns out to be bad it neans I wasnt getting any vacuum to the egr valve. Then again maybe it let vacuum to the egr at higher temps. I guess I would have to take it to test that. Or check with the engine hot.

Im going to try driving it with the pvs bypassed for a while it sounded strong when I was testing it.

amc49

If original set up and trying to repeat it, year and motor, May have an emission manual that details it if I can find it.

amc49

Hello again.

The PVS needs to be used if it's working. It prevents EGR vacuum from coming on with engine cold, they usually miss then. Engine needs to be warm to tolerate EGR without missing. There can be a PVS used on spark control too if car has it, or the retard above say 35 mph to drop emissions. That gets delayed until car warms up too, retarded spark not well accepted until engine warm either.

You generally use 'spark ported' vacuum for distributor if car is an emission model say '74 or later. That is vacuum that is off with car at idle but it comes on as soon as butterfly opens. You do not really use constant vacuum on much of anything, at least I don't. Older cars did before emissions but the distributor full advance (centrifugal and vacuum together) will be arranged for it. You read base and full advance and see if they make sense. They went to spark port to lower idle emissions, NOx rises with advance at idle. Unless some device requires it to be that way I generally don't use constant baseplate vacuum (Thermactor pump bypass or a/c/heat control or vacuum wipers come to mind). The venturi vacuum is used if you have the vacuum amplifier used on EGR. Other than that not much other equipment uses that either other than back barrels on some vacuum secondary carbs. Venturi vacuum does indeed increase with speed rather than falling off as you open throttle more and more.

PCV should only be a bigger hose not small line. At idle only a small bleed like vacuum leak but it has to be able to flow bigger amounts for when the vacuum falls off and the major flow switches on. That happens when the poppet drops back open to open the bigger restriction inside valve. Why they rattle. You CAN tee smaller lines into PCV as long as it has a big pathway there. I have been known to take like fish aquarium brass air valves for the air pumps (bubbles y'know LOL) and patch one or even two in to the PCV hose to modify the idle air amount by hand in case I think trying to get the proper idle speed is forcing me to screw idle speed screw too far into the linkage to hold throttleplates too far into the transfer ports. Easy way to preset idle speed screw then not have to touch it to get idle faster or slower to get the speed I want.

If still using a stock type air cleaner with the snorkel and taking heat off exhaust, then make sure the vacuum dashpot that flips open the door to pick cold air with warm engine is working. If not, hot exhaust preheated air added to a warmed up engine will ping like nobody's business. I've also on one peculiar car had to add a spark delay valve as well to slow down distributor vacuum building to make the vacuum come on a bit slower, it had a tendency to ping while cold oddly enough, that fixed that.

PCV is a double ended system, the norm at idle is flow through the air filter to valve cover, through engine and then through the restriction in PCV and back to intake to zoop engine clean. Yes, it has to have vacuum to work right and constant vacuum there.  At high engine speeds, the poppet closes to allow the bigger leak to happen then PCV flows like 10X the air and the air filter line on other half then flows backwards, why oil builds in it with worn engine. The engine flows more at that time (blowby) than the PCV can handle and why the flow goes backwards.

If the EGR not working then the timing at that time may be too much and making it ping.

I never memorize the ports by the outside, rather I generally have carb off anyway and easy to trace the vacuum circuits then.

The PVS can drive you nuts, they made many with all kinds of action in them, close, open, different number of ports, you name it. IIRC at least they used to mark the temp at which they work on the side. About all you can do is have known good one and then get motor hot or stone cold and vacuum test for what port does what. Like 50 different ones there. REAL easy for them to give wrong part at the parts store. I've seen 140, 165, 180 degree ones. 2 port, 3 port, 4 port.


ToniJ1960

 For the last year or so maybe longer I notice a detonation  rattling type sound under wot when my engine is hot. I was thinking the egr valve might be bad, but it holds vacuum so I think the diaphragm is probably ok.

The distributor vacuum advance is connected to a port on the carrb base for venturi vacuum I suppose. Its towards the front of the car next to the mixture screw.

Theres a second vacuum line going to a port on the right of the mixture screw, and to a 2 port pvs screwed into the water block. It goes to the egr and the pcv valve. I really wonder if the pcv valve should get intake vacuum for its signal?

But anyway back to the subject question. On the vacuum line to the distributor I get 5-10 inches of vacuum increasing with speed and it doesnt drop when the throttle opens and go back up, so I think thats venturi vacuum, although I wasnt expecting 10 or more inches from the venturi port.

The second hose from the carb to the pvs, on the output side of the pvs I didnt get anything, but on the hose from the carb side I get the same vacuum measurements as the other hose from the carb base.


So I guess my egr hasnt been getting vacuum to the diaphragm, or does that 2 port pvs only carry vacuum to the other port above a certain temperature? And is this the correct way to conect the egr? For now I bypased the pvs and connected the carb vacuum straight through.