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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1976 Wagon Overheating

Started by TrichelleHutten, March 08, 2014, 11:43:03 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amc49

At least change the stat. Cheapest part that commonly does the most damage and not that hard to get to on these.

TrichelleHutten

I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner.  It is performance season and I have been extremely busy
So the Pinto is home with all new heater hoses and a new radiator cap. I still feel it is running hot though it hasn't "overheated".  I was told the water pump and thermostat are fine.
I am sifting through all of your suggestions and will be trying to find a solutions that gets her running as well as I know she can.  I am considering just doing the work myself. I will keep you posted.
Thank you all so very much.
Trichelle

amc49

Hey, I talk to myself all the time.............not too bad once you get used to it..................

ToniJ1960

 I think she went on vacation :) We should hear when she gets back.

Rob3865

Seems the OP is MIA. I reckon we're just talkin to ourselves. lol

amc49

If timing itself is too retarded you should easily be able to tell from carb backfiring too easy and no power.

jeremysdad

If you replace all your suspect cooling system parts and still have overheating issues, ignition timing being set wrong (too far retarded) or running lean (carb issues) will also cause overheating problems.

74 PintoWagon

Well, for being in a one horse town with minimum of anything I am fortunate to have an actual "parts store" where they still have a catalog rack and these guys actually know parts, a little pricy on some stuff but if you need it now they usually have it, if not they can have it there the same day if you order it early enough in the morning, still oder online if I;m not in a hurry though..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

That is good to know. Around here they were everywhere, now I can't find a one. I really liked their quality. I did not know for sure but was suspecting they got gobbled up like so many other part lines. I'll have to start going on specific searches for them. Around here all they plop out on the counter is crap Masterpro or Duralast parts which I loathe. I don't do Napa, maybe that's where they're at. Napa floors me with pricing every time I step in there. I pretty much Rock Auto or other online now to save on the norm 40%-50% on everything I buy, I don't go to parts store except for the smallest of parts now. Working at the parts store opened my eyes wide as to the incredible ripoff going on there. I got 40% store discount and still got most parts online for cheaper than even that.

I knew Stant was at one time at Walmart, went looking like a year ago and nothing in Stant there at all. Maybe online only like so much of their stuff now.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Does Stant even exist any more as a company?? Thinking not, I haven't seen parts from them in years. At the store the only ones I saw were old dusty parts that looked like they'd been on shelves for years. They were pulled as NOS to sub for other lines meaning they were 'bought out' parts from someone else. I think the line is dead, I loved them too. What we get when the big 2 or 3 auto parts companies begin to form massive manufacturing conglomerates so that you get parts in boxes with names like Duralast and Masterpro. Premium prices for less than old school quality parts and you really have no idea of who made them at all. The box guarantees the part could be made from up to 10 different suppliers  and the reason all the old school companies like Stant are gone or fighting for their lives. I watched as line after line of parts folded up to be bought out and then the factories were converted to be part of one of those conglomerates and how they chopped jobs and wages to shreds doing so. Look at who makes your rebuilt of all types, your brake parts, your gaskets, your automotive electrical. Abysmal situation there. Anybody remember world class quality maker Borg-Warner? Now they make some of the most spotty quality parts on earth, they used to be best of the best................I avoid them like the plague now.

One guy's view-I saw new best quality stats go bad left and right within days, another part that has gone down the toilet with all Chinese production. The best of the best are now subject to very spotty quality so buying on the cheap will commonly get you a far worse part now. And if a plastic housing like so many cars going to now you risk breaking an overly expensive crap part every time you change it. The so-called 'failsafe' stats are crap too FWIW. Lots of times they didn't work as advertised. Luck of the draw there. I buy nothing but best quality stat now with no gimmicks and then cross my fingers. Only an idiot risks a perfectly viable engine to save $2 in my view.

Usually the springs in radiator cap do not go bad, I commonly can rebuild caps to use again by simply figuring out how to change the rubber sealing gasket in them with one made from rubber washer from the hardware store. I'd never have bothered with it in the old days but with caps now approaching $10 I can fix one for maybe $2 and five minutes work. That's at least close to maybe $15/hr. of pay averaged out, or try getting that from most jobs now if you are over 50 years old and impossible. I generally make 10X that with most of my self repairs though. Money is where you find it..........................

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on March 10, 2014, 06:37:05 PMI'm just glad I ordered an extra when they were still cheap. It's still in the box in the garage.
Yeah, I was gonna do that too just never got around to, guess I screwed up there,lol..
 
QuoteStant Lev-R-Vent is a great choice in a cap, it's worth the extra coin. Don't cheap out on the thermostat either. A good name brand brass one ($7 or 8 bucks) is best. If your thermostat was $1.99 at the parts store it's just a matter of time before it quits working.
Been using the Lev-R-Vent forever never had a problem with one yet, well worth the extra $$$ for as long as they last.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on March 09, 2014, 07:38:53 AM
Someone must have told them that they are getting hard to find.. ::)

I'm just glad I ordered an extra when they were still cheap. It's still in the box in the garage.

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on March 10, 2014, 09:38:26 AM
Those cheapos are junk, I don't remember ever having a problem with Stant.

http://www.stant.com/

Stant Lev-R-Vent is a great choice in a cap, it's worth the extra coin. Don't cheap out on the thermostat either. A good name brand brass one ($7 or 8 bucks) is best. If your thermostat was $1.99 at the parts store it's just a matter of time before it quits working.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

ToniJ1960

 It would be a good to replace the radiator cap after so many yeas I doubt they would still hold the same pressure. But Im prettty sure if her radiator cap was letting coolant escape she would see it.

Six pounds of pressure should be around 220 or 225 degrees I think. I could se t hat venting out. But are these cars really designed to run that hot? My other car has a 192 thermostat and stays close to 190-200 in most driving. I would think if the rest of the cooling system is  working right you shouldnt see those temps go over 220 in just 5 miles. The cause is not the radiator cap. If the hoses are springing leaks theres plenty of pressure.

74 PintoWagon

Those cheapos are junk, I don't remember ever having a problem with Stant.

http://www.stant.com/
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

bbobcat75

BUY A QUALITY CAP!! BOUGHT A CHEAPY AT AUTO DISCOUNT SUPER GIANTS AND IT WOULD NOT EVEN HOLD 6 PSI ON A 13PSI CAP!!! BUY A GOOD ONE!!! 6PSI WILL LET ALL COOLANT LEAK OUT UNDER PRESSURE AND DRIVING!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

amc49

' If it was the thermostat stuck I dont think it would overflow the radiator?'

NO, not even near right...........................it can even blow the radiator out if it cannot overflow fast enough to relieve the pressure buildup.

And yes the radiator cap is an easy to do trick and cheap, could be that too.

amc49

Thermostat like they say. You got all the marks of it. The hoses pop because stat not opening is overheating engine to make more than normal pressure on them. No matter, if they pop quick then a sign they are old and need changing. At 100K they all should be new anyway or you're just looking at more overheats. You've already done it a time or two, engines will not take repeated overheats long without toasting their insides. Not blowing white smoke now but the very next time may do it.

The mechanic didn't catch it because it was working OK when he looked at it. Stats stick out of the blue when old but not necessarily every time. He should've taken the cue from your description and changed it though unless you tilted him toward not spending money until the problem definitely found. A mistake on stats, you change them BEFORE they go bad not after. Even one overheat under the right circumstances and the car could easily be bound for the scrapyard.

FYI, heater cores do not overheat and then stop, they stay doing it and most likely not that. The water pump can easily be checked for looseness in the shaft since right on front of motor. Why did mech not do that? I'm suspecting his skills more and more......................

I change all belts and hoses, stat, and water pump around 75K to 85K, and again at 150 or so, I haven't had a single overheat in like 30+ years on 4 cars running pretty much 100% of the time. Or how you get cars to reach 200K+ with no issues at all. Driving them until they fail first is asking to walk home past a certain point...............................

rramjet

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on March 08, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Very true. Oil & temp. gauges are mandatory in any car with idiot lights. Every car I own has a set if it didn't have them factory. I've had good luck with the electric versions myself as long as they are quality like Stewart Warner or Autometer.

Interestingly the gauges I got were made by Autometer but under a different name. Got them at O'Riellys for $50. Black face with white letters. No cheap looking colors.

74 PintoWagon

I hate electric gauges lost a motor because of it before, sender failed and it was a quality unit.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: rramjet on March 08, 2014, 08:31:34 PMWhat stinks is the $115 new radiators at Autozone went up. Even with a discount it's gonna cost at least $160 now.
Someone must have told them that they are getting hard to find.. ::)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Very true. Oil & temp. gauges are mandatory in any car with idiot lights. Every car I own has a set if it didn't have them factory. I've had good luck with the electric versions myself as long as they are quality like Stewart Warner or Autometer.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

rramjet

Another recommendation once you figure out the problem; install a set of mechanical gauges for water temp and oil pressure.

This was one of the first things I did after getting my car. I prefer the mechanical to electrical gauges. No wires except for lights to worry about. By the time warning lights come one it can be too late. For example the temp light may not come on if the water level is too low. Sensor won't work on steam.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on March 08, 2014, 06:13:10 PM
Sounds like the cooling system is old and outlived itself, time to refresh it al as Pinto5 did and don't forget a new radiator cap.

LOL, yeah I forgot to mention the cap too. What stinks is the $115 new radiators at Autozone went up. Even with a discount it's gonna cost at least $160 now.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Sounds like the cooling system is old and outlived itself, time to refresh it al as Pinto5 did and don't forget a new radiator cap.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Change the thermostat 1st. It's cheap & easy. My wagon ran hot & instead of playing the guessing game I changed the thermostat, water pump, radiator, hoses, coolant & flushed the heater core. I also installed a 12" flex fan to reduce drag. Total cost was under $200 & the engine hasn't gone past 175 degrees in 2 years.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

tbucketjack

I would start by replacing the thermostat.

ToniJ1960

 Im wondering if it could be the water pump if it overheats in only 5 miles. If it was the thermostat stuck I dont think it would overflow the radiator?

My brother in law once told me you could leave the radiator cap off and look down into the radiator with the engine running, once it warms up enough you should see the water churning if it doesnt the water pump is bad. Are the belts tight and not real old?

Rob3865

I don't like internet troubleshooting, but if I had to GUESS, I would say the heater core may be stopped up. It sounds like something maybe causing a little pressure buildup making those hoses leak. The stopped up heater core could account for the over heating and hose leaks. Nice lookin car. You're a cutie too. Love the flower. Good luck.

TrichelleHutten

My little wagon is overheating. I took it to a shop and they fixed an oil leak and did a few other small things and told me it was good to go. But 2 days after, it overheated again. A heater hose had a pinhole leak so I figured that was causing it to overheat. I thought the shop must have overlooked the leaky hose so I replaced it myself. After I replaced the hose and added coolant I drove about 5 miles, parked, popped the hood and the car was overheated. Coolant was running out overflow and the engine was hot to touch. After sitting for about 5 min ANOTHER hose sprung a leak. Why is it overheating and why do random hoses keeping popping leaks?  And why did the mechanic I took it to not find any of this before he returned it to me? I  really just need information so I can go back to the shop informed and hopefully be taken more seriously. I love this car it doesn't even have 100,000 miles on it.  Please help.
BTW, The oil looks fine and it is not blowing white smoke.