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1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Dash bulbs

Started by dianne, February 23, 2014, 10:09:08 AM

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rramjet

Quote from: amc49 on February 28, 2014, 06:14:14 PM
Looked around a little bit, you can switch 194 bulbs to 168 and more light output there.............Couldn't remember which way was which, I used to sell the brighter ones at the store when people asked for more light.

Thanks but it already looks like a Christmas tree compared to previous.

amc49

Looked around a little bit, you can switch 194 bulbs to 168 and more light output there.............Couldn't remember which way was which, I used to sell the brighter ones at the store when people asked for more light.

dianne

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on February 28, 2014, 01:48:18 PM
Those little peanut bulbs in the markers & dash have a tendency to go black with age. Some turn a sort of silver color as well. New ones bring the intensity back to normal.

My dash looks great now :D  Like new again when I turn the lights on :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pinto5.0

Those little peanut bulbs in the markers & dash have a tendency to go black with age. Some turn a sort of silver color as well. New ones bring the intensity back to normal.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

rramjet

A little off topic but about bulbs.

My neighbor pointed out to me that I had one bright taillight and one normal and only one backup light on my 73 Squire. Yesterday I investigated. Someone had switched the wiring between the brake filament and taillight on the left side and put an 1156 bulb in the right side backup light socket. Interestingly my owners manual calls for the 1156 however the socket is a two pin type and needs a 1076 two pin single filament bulb. The sockets are plastic so no ground provided by the socket hence the need for two pin, My owners manual may be for a later year model.

I also replaced the side marker bulbs in all four positions which were all black.

Somebody playing with electricity when they shouldn't.

dianne

Well, I have halogens and nothing melted. I need to ask someone locally about doing this. Other than doing body work I'm not good at anything...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

The federal legal requirement is 55watt/60 watt and that stayed the same on the incandescent bulb too. I' have noticed no difference to small difference on all the cars I've ever switched the bulb type on. The element itself DOES get hotter but deep inside the unit, it radiates most of the heat to the glass surrounding since molded to it. Can't be too bad, all the later headlight housings have the bulb mounted in plastic socket on plastic light unit.

Biggest trouble I've seen are the newer filament type taillight socket bulbs used, the wire so small it overheats to melt commonly brakelight sockets, I had to cut with a dremel to remove them from both cars, carefully done you can recover the taillight lens but the intention is to melt the part so you buy a new one there. The receiving metal warps from the heat to then expand and at a certain point very slight clearance leads to arcing which just really eats things up. Melted both in two years, how's that for Ford quality? All about planned obsolescence and profit generating there again, and why your plastic headlights get cloudy looking so you buy $200 headlights. They have actually changed the plastic from a longer lasting one to one that now fractures internally to combat all the people who refinished the older plastic to look like brand new part. They also intentionally make wire gauge and contacts smaller and smaller in defiance of electrical laws while claiming they are making car lighter. The result is now so many fire issues they cannot keep track of them all. Almost everything on a modern Ford that passes power can melt now. The war goes on.............

Now, accumulative heating after 40 years on a Pinto being an issue? Of course that is possible, but I see it on incandescent old connectors too. I generally replace with simple spade connectors anyway, a few cents to nowadays $20 light sockets. A little grease or cheap heatshrink tubing to waterproof it and good to go. Lasts for years with no issue at all. Screw expensive light sockets.

I have gone much further to buy the correct several sizes of small pin connectors commonly needed on like PCM late model cars for various sensor connections. Digi-Key has them at maybe $.25 each, just replaced two Focus coil connectors with wire and all at maybe $3 each, the replacement over-the-counter connector now going for like $20 again. I need to increase MY profit margin, not that of the company selling expensive Chinese made connectors. Easiest $34 I ever made but I do that all over the cars in hundreds of ways. Just rebuilt (impossible they say, RIIIGHT) both radiator cooling fan resistors on both Focus, $70 each, my cost maybe $2, they work fine, they certainly weren't before. $200 PWM controlled alternator? I fixed one for $19 and the other for $.30, both now running after for years now. $400 fuel pump modules? Both redone for free except I had to crawl under the car. Of course, if one intends to keep all original parts there he is in for an extremely expensive ride in the cars of the future.

I keep NOTHING the same, I learned that years ago. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is was my fix cheaper? (a LOT cheaper), and will it last forever? I don't lift a finger to fix something if I think I will be fixing it next week again, a waste of my time. The other side of my intensely pessimistic nature, you can see things most others never give thought to to nix the whole works.

You should see the ATXes I've fixed for $5 here and there that were diagnosed as 'you need a new transmission there guy' by major shop chains. Pretty.............dang...............funny. Just because you have no bands to adjust any more does not mean you cannot adjust the bands LOL.

dianne

Hmmmm what to do now I guess....
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pinto5.0

I have 3 Pintos with cooked headlight sockets & wiring from halogen lights. I haven't looked at the other 2 but I'm sure they have similar issues. Everything I've ever read says halogens create more heat, stress the wiring & put excess load on the headlight switch. The relays are a good idea to alleviate the dimming when the engine idles.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

amc49

ALL LEDs used with 12 volt to begin with MUST have some slight resistance, they will only work unresisted at 3-5 volts max. Put them in 12 volt and super bright for maybe a second until they burn out. 680 ohm commonly used unless it is already resisted, you can see the slight bump in the wire insulation if done so and the card will say it. You can gain intensity by lowering the 'at bulb' resistance but past a certain point life will drop. They can get pretty freaking bright though. Again I bring up the limited focusing issue, they will NOT diffuse light like a regular bulb will sideways since they are only focused on about a 30 degree arc. A big problem say on motorcycle taillight, the brightness is incredible from directly behind but almost none when you come much closer and now looking at the light coming from the SIDE of the lighting unit. I added incandescent on both sides of the tail LED to greatly improve side view too, dangerous issue there. The same issue will show up using LEDs inside an instrument package.

The incandescent bulbs get dimmer because of bulb being old and resistor in switch the same, typically the switch is much of the trouble. The resistance coil gets more resistance with age from heat. One could easily cut out the resistor coil and use switch without it and a separate resistor from electronics store, but you purists can kiss that idea off.

The few Pinto gaugepacks I have run across are cheaply done, they have no reflective inside them at all, only base white plastic. I was able to improve the problem by using Krylon 'chrome' (NOT silver) paint inside the housing, allowed to dry it actually reflects quite a bit more light to diffuse better. I removed the blue shields to get white light too. I chopped the resistor to not have dimmable lights on mine, never used the feature at all. Problem cured.

FYI if the 'halogens' mentioned are headlights then if using stock replacement 55W/60W halogen sealed beam there is no difference in load, the load is the same as a stock incandescent headlight. An easy upgrade. You worry about wiring and other when you ADD more wattage, say different separate halogens like offroad intended standalone stuff.

There is more than one wattage bulb there, you check the Wagner or Sylvania online catalogs for basic bulb type and then start researching the wattage, higher is brighter. Bear in mind brighter is hotter as well. May affect the socket longterm although I've never changed wire gauge when going up in brightness on small bulbs like that and no issues. I do it all the time.

Wittsend

Has anyone even tried the LED bulbs without dimming them?  With the incandescent bulbs I can barely see the speedometer, much less read it at night.  The possibility exists that maybe they are dim enough even at full intensity.  But leads me to ask why the desire for brighter light..., and then dim it?

There may also be a replacement incandescent bulb that is brighter, yet dim-able.  I put my Turbo Coupe Tach/Boost Gauge in the left pod and the bulbs in it are significantly brighter. 

Regardless, there are diffusion and light decreasing materials used in the film/TV industry that might be placed in proximity to the LED.  They are made for high heat application. The diffusion both cuts down intensity and evens the light out.  This would be a trial and error, one setting process but it is another way to alter light output.

Tom

dianne

I have halogen bulbs with the halos on there (those are LED though).

Maybe I should look at them? I mean what is worse case? It will burn out the switch?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

Could be if you switch to Halogen lights.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

I dunno. How much strain is there on there? My car was made in 1973, others in 1970 and yet another in 1978. These cars all have no issues with the switches. Are you saying there will be problems with older cars if we don't install this setup?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

That looks like a pretty good item there, cheap fix too.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

This is a worthwhile upgrade to take some strain off the headlight switch with halogen headlights. My sockets were cooked & crumbling on my 80 so I wired them direct but if your sockets are ok then it's a simple plug in.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Ceramic-H4-Headlight-Relay-Wiring-Harness-2-Headlamp-Light-Bulb-Socket-Plug-/380852842227?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3APinto&hash=item58ac992ef3&vxp=mtr
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

amc49

'LED's can remove enough current draw to overcome the additional strain caused by halogen headlamps on the headlight switch, wiring & fuse........'

As he says and important with a crap little 40 amp alternator like these have commonly. I put a 55/60 halogen headlamp in my bike because it had a crap 40 watt bulb there and had to compromise with LEDs in other places like taillight to make up the difference, the alt there did not output enough power. Result? The taillight AND headlight MUCH better light output there and system not loaded as much as before.

tbucketjack

I didn't know you could get LED's in the old bayonet type bulbs. I always used the colored covers that went over the bubs.

dianne

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on February 26, 2014, 07:17:22 PM
The advantage of LED's is lower current draw & less heat. The strain on the headlight switch is reduced by at least 7-15 amps & the PC board on the back of the dash wont deteriorate under the heat & stress of carrying all that current. LED's can remove enough current draw to overcome the additional strain caused by halogen headlamps on the headlight switch, wiring & fuse.

But not easily adjustable...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Pinto5.0

The advantage of LED's is lower current draw & less heat. The strain on the headlight switch is reduced by at least 7-15 amps & the PC board on the back of the dash wont deteriorate under the heat & stress of carrying all that current. LED's can remove enough current draw to overcome the additional strain caused by halogen headlamps on the headlight switch, wiring & fuse.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dianne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on February 26, 2014, 09:01:14 AM
A lot simpler,lol..

Yeah, heck with the LEDS. I could have painted bulbs blue I guess LMAO
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dianne on February 26, 2014, 07:46:39 AM
I put in white ones in my car :D Just plain old bulbs :) LOL
A lot simpler,lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

I put in white ones in my car :D Just plain old bulbs :) LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

They ARE dimmable, I've done it several times, but not in an instrument lighting situation, more like just getting them at proper intensity.

You simply have to understand that the dimming is varied resistance, when you change it you are changing resistance using a variable resistor. Or what a dimmer is.

I'd bet that linked $34 part could be replaced by something from Digi-Key for like $2-$3, or, another whoppingly overpriced part. I see 3 wires and no PWM occurring there at all, or a simple variable potentiometer. Can't tell without breaking it apart to see if it's chipped or not. Thinking you need more than 3 wires to do a chip. I use like a cheap $3 potentiometer to test/set the volts to where I like, pull meter and measure the value on it with voltmeter then add that value of resistance on the power lead with simple resistors that cost maybe ten cents each.

LEDs may not like going down close to dead zero light, I can't speak to that. ALL LEDs dim using varying amounts of resistance, usually from 300-680 ohm for 12 volt (red or yellow, blue may be different) to get normal light with max life. More light=less life. Most are limited to like 3-5 volts input with no resistance, you add ohms to use higher voltages. Get them far cheaper at like electronics place rather than car parts, you'll pay WAY too much getting them there.

Problem is the car dimmer may be in the wrong range of resistance needed there. Another issue is that LEDs have pretty focused narrow beam light output, they only light say over a small arc of viewing angle, not like incandescent which can light across a maybe 270+ degrees arc. Why you see all the LEDS mounted in taillight bulbs at weird angles to complement each other as well as for the added light output. On instruments that could easily result in too much light on part of the gauge and not enough on the rest of it, like if one bulb is out. Of course you could simply add more than the factory used bulbs for. They are easy to drill for and mount.

The later Ford PCM cars have so much trouble emanating from radiator cooling fan issues that on all 3 of my zetec cars I have LED panels made to indicate when a/c compressor clutch, low fan, and high fan each cycle on, it is super helpful in knowing quickly what can be wrong with the cooling system in the cars since so many issues come from electrical failing there somewhere. The most common issue failing the cars to put them in the junkyard is cooling problems. Keep the electrics working correctly and the engines cannot be blown up, they routinely go 300K miles. One severe overheat though and kiss all that goodbye. The cooling fan resistor on them has a tendency to fail with little warning. You can quickly deduce a/c issues too using that light.

Done right with correct resistance used LEDs last forever, very rare to fail one and ideal for instrument lighting if you get it worked out. Use quality parts, the cheaper Chinese ones can drop in light output quite a bit after only a small amount of time. I've seen blue drop 50% in 2 months. And get the polarity clear in your head before applying power, even one time power applied backwards can fry some almost instantly, even though they ARE diodes and should stop power the other way, it is intended to be only a small amount backwards.

dianne

Quote from: rramjet on February 25, 2014, 11:19:50 AM
You may get some small amount of dimming with LED's using your stock dimmer switch but they are really on off devices. You can make them appear to dim by turning the current flow on and off very fast and varying the time it's on versus off. It's called pulse width modulation.  They will actually be blinking on and off but so fast you can't tell. The effect will be a dimmer output.

Here is an example of an automotive LED dimmer.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nvu-99003-04?seid=srese1&gclid=CJ3s-azk57wCFYdgfgod_VAADg

Sheesh. I just got a bunch of bulbs. LOL That was easier!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

rramjet

You may get some small amount of dimming with LED's using your stock dimmer switch but they are really on off devices. You can make them appear to dim by turning the current flow on and off very fast and varying the time it's on versus off. It's called pulse width modulation.  They will actually be blinking on and off but so fast you can't tell. The effect will be a dimmer output.

Here is an example of an automotive LED dimmer.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nvu-99003-04?seid=srese1&gclid=CJ3s-azk57wCFYdgfgod_VAADg

74 PintoWagon

Well, I don't know squat about this stuff, but they make them for dash lights and cars all have a dimmer switch, now do new cars have lED dash lights??, been reading bits here and there and from what I gather it's about the dimmer switch not the bulbs??, but could be wrong though. Here's a ton of automotive bulbs and none says dimmable, must be different than household bulbs??.

http://www.miniinthebox.com/narrow/instrument-light_v78029t0/car-led-light-bulbs_c3103
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

None of them there were at all.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on February 25, 2014, 04:32:55 AM
There are a lot of LED's that are either on or off & don't dim. I'd ask 1st before buying to be sure.
Very true, usually they're marked on the card whether they are dimmable or not.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.